General BA Tactics

[TheCamel55]

Hi Guys :) I've been collecting 40k for around 6 months now and have built up a reasonable collection of Blood Angels (my first army) and was wondering if you could share some information on how to beat certain armies and certain good tactics

 

In the group i play in I have a mech guard list to vs, (probably the most competitive/hardest guy to beat)

 

Two Tyranid players, An Eldar player and a few other less important ones :P

 

So how would you go about beating each of them? (Especially the guard player)

 

And in general any tactics you have would be appreciated :)

 

I have...

 

1 Furioso DN

1 Normal DN

1 Land Raider Redeemer

1 Baal Pred

1 Rhino

1 TLAC Razorback

1 Drop Pod

5 Sternguard

10 Tacs

25 - 30 Jump Pack Assault Marines (I love these guys :P)

10 Assault Marines without jump packs

1 Sang Priest w/ Jump Pack

1 Sang Priest w/ Termie Armour

10 Assault Termies (5 TH/SS, 5 LC)

5 Sanguinary Guard

Devastators - (2 PC, 2 LC, 3 ML, 2 HB)

5 Scouts (4 bolters + ML)

Mephiston (Beast)

Dante

Sanguinor

 

Thanks in advance :tu:

[Zid]

Well, heres some tips:

 

Mech Guard - get close and personal quickly. You weren't very specific, but if he runs a lot of vendettas/Russes I find that Land Raiders make hell on em. Unless they're great at rolling 6's you can probably get close quickly and reletively unscathed. If he runs a lot of demolishers, I'd focus on those first. They suck. I'd stick away from running rhinos/razorbacks, drop podding in meltas and things usually works well. From your stuff I'd run the termis, drop pod in sternguard with combi-meltas, mephiston, and run some assault squads. Devestator backup is always a good thing too (4x ML) for popping chimeras. The hardest thing BA have dealing with are Russes normally, so getting as close as quickly as possible, and trying to drop the template tanks quickly is key to winning. And of course, lots of meltas

 

Nids - Land Raiders own nids. Dreads rock vs nids (blood talons). Death Company rock vs nids, they can eat MC's and swathes of little guys quickly. AM squads with packs, flamers, and power fists rule if you get em a priest to run with. Dev squads work wonders too. Kill the big baddies first, the little ones are easy.

 

The hardest things I ever face with my BA are Green Tide orcs, Mech IG (w/ demolishers), and T-wolf calv based SW. Everything else is pretty easy using an all comers style list, but the previously mentioned three armies require either making lists to deal with them, or some asprin and patience, as the ass kicking they hand out is pretty hefty if you misplay anything. Just remember to move up on armies that sit around, and stay still when armies need to get to you!

[TheCamel55]

Thanks for the advice :tu: I'll definitely give it all a shot, I only have one land raider though so it'll probably get meltad to death by veterans w/ meltas in a valk or something:P

 

some things he generally uses...

 

Valkyrie with melta vets inside

 

Leman Russ Executioner

 

Manticore

 

Hellhound

 

and normal transports etc

 

I've generally been experiencing being decimated first turn, i suppose the answer to that is deep strikes etc?

[Zid]

Thanks for the advice :D I'll definitely give it all a shot, I only have one land raider though so it'll probably get meltad to death by veterans w/ meltas in a valk or something:P

 

some things he generally uses...

 

Valkyrie with melta vets inside

 

Leman Russ Executioner

 

Manticore

 

Hellhound

 

and normal transports etc

 

I've generally been experiencing being decimated first turn, i suppose the answer to that is deep strikes etc?

 

Deep strikings a terrible idea unless your running things like sternguard in a pod. generally start on the board, spread out to minimize damage from stuff like executioners and hellhounds, and move up. Target priority from what you listed would be Executioner, Hellhound, Manticore, Valk. The vets would probably get 1 of your transports and die... honestly, its pretty easy to pop valks. Vets are a threat, but once they're in the open they go down easily. I'd fear chims filled with vets more than the valk. I'd also recommend a librarian or two with Shield of Sanguinus, the 5+ cover is great if theres not alot of cover.

[Tigcarn]

If he is using alpha-strike list in friendly games you should just kick him in the sack. Although if you get to go first move everything as close as possible to him. 18inch those rhino's and razorbacks and pop smoke. Put your rhino's and razors rear armor to rear armor to form a nice big wall and hide as many of your jump marines behind it LoS of his army. An amazing tactic vs valks is to use scouts as your throw away buffer unit. Making a wall of them can really bone the valk scout move because he has to stay a certain distance away pre-game. Scout moves with Baal Preds for side or even rear armor shots can be brutal too. But only if you are going first.

[Massawyrm]

Deep strikings a terrible idea unless your running things like sternguard in a pod. generally start on the board

 

Couldn't disagree more. If your opponent is EVER playing a first strike list, reserve EVERYTHING, even if you have to walk it on board. Also, if you face tournie level lists in friendly play, it's time to play like a bastard as well.

 

-Put the Termie Sang Priest in with the 10 Assault termies. DS them.

-Buy or kitbash four more sternguard (all you need to two spare terminator storm bolter arms to make 4 new sternguard.) Give them all combi-melta. Put them with the other priest. Drop Pod.

-Pick up 10 Death Company and a Reclusiarch - until then, put 10 RAS w/out jump packs in the Redeemer. Deep Strike it. Remember that it can fire one weapon with PoTMS when DSing. AC for light armor/melta for heavy/Flamestorm for nearby marines or troops. Expect it to catch a lot of heat. The point is to get it into assault and rush into combat.

-Pick up another Drop Pod and paint the Furioso Black. Put a red X on said dreadnought. For extra pimp points, paint the drop pod and redeemer black with red X's. Drop Pod a DC Dread (your other three elite slots are taken.)

-Mephiston.

-DevSquad 2ML/2Las - buy them a rhino or Razorback. Let Mephiston use it while they snipe from the other side of the board (in cover).

-Baal Pred (outflank it)

-Fill out the rest with RAS.

[TheCamel55]

Wow thanks for the help guys :D

 

Massawyrm, I'll definitely make some more Sternguard, i have a heap of legs and bodies anyway because i hate tac marines so much

 

With the other ras, do you advise deep striking those as well? (meltaing tanks etc) or putting them in transports

 

Cause i really dont want to buy like 6 razorbacks B)

 

I'll probably be able to scrape up 10 death company aswell, they wont mind me using red marines as DC anyway ;)

[Zid]

Deep strikings a terrible idea unless your running things like sternguard in a pod. generally start on the board

 

Couldn't disagree more. If your opponent is EVER playing a first strike list, reserve EVERYTHING, even if you have to walk it on board. Also, if you face tournie level lists in friendly play, it's time to play like a bastard as well.

 

-Put the Termie Sang Priest in with the 10 Assault termies. DS them.

-Buy or kitbash four more sternguard (all you need to two spare terminator storm bolter arms to make 4 new sternguard.) Give them all combi-melta. Put them with the other priest. Drop Pod.

-Pick up 10 Death Company and a Reclusiarch - until then, put 10 RAS w/out jump packs in the Redeemer. Deep Strike it. Remember that it can fire one weapon with PoTMS when DSing. AC for light armor/melta for heavy/Flamestorm for nearby marines or troops. Expect it to catch a lot of heat. The point is to get it into assault and rush into combat.

-Pick up another Drop Pod and paint the Furioso Black. Put a red X on said dreadnought. For extra pimp points, paint the drop pod and redeemer black with red X's. Drop Pod a DC Dread (your other three elite slots are taken.)

-Mephiston.

-DevSquad 2ML/2Las - buy them a rhino or Razorback. Let Mephiston use it while they snipe from the other side of the board (in cover).

-Baal Pred (outflank it)

-Fill out the rest with RAS.

 

So, you suggest deep striking his whole army facing a tourney level IG list? Heres a few (of many) issues with that idea:

1) DS the LR... so that he can drop his vets in and blow it up? The best idea for raiders is to drive up and shoot while doing it. You can smoke, you can use cover, no issue with a possible mishap, your not leaving it out to dry.

2) Your suggesting a 10 man sternguard squad w/ priest... ok, why would you do that against a template heavy army? Eradicators you'd get blown to bits, demolishers and battlecannons would do the same. Sternguard are best used in small squads to kill a target and die... large units of them cost a LOT for a sacrificial unit

3) DSing any assault troops is just a generally bad idea against IG. Your just setting up so he can rain template death on your head. Not to mention you cannot assault... its not worth it to drop in, blow up a tank (maybe two if they're in a squad), and then lose a 200+ point squad to a few battlecannons?

 

Its always a bad idea to build a list focused on one task... alpha strike lists from what I've seen fail to do much. You can drop in, kill a tank, maybe a few guys.. and then get templated to death, assaulted, or placed in a position you cannot get out of.

 

BA are VERY mobile... use that to your advantage. WHen everything you have moves 12"+, use it! If you can get a first turn you can be at LEAST 24" up the board T1, T2 you'd be within assault range as well as have a few things dropped in on their head

[Massawyrm]

So, you suggest deep striking his whole army facing a tourney level IG list?

No. Depends on the mission and setup. I said RESERVE, even if he has to walk things on.

 

2) Your suggesting a 10 man sternguard squad w/ priest... ok, why would you do that against a template heavy army?

Note how I mentioned to give them all Combi-melta. Essentially, this is a first turn suicide squad that will dump 9 melta shots into a squadron before taking a LOT of heat. Anyhting that survives is welcome to begin being sternguardy.

 

DS the LR... so that he can drop his vets in and blow it up?

Pretty much, yeah. It's why I spent more time concerned with the payload than discussing getting more raiders. Takes a LOT of hate to kill a LR. Let him focus his army on that purpose first. If it is vets, the DC will vaporize the Vets on contact - then move on to the next target.

 

You're playing a lot of what if, Zid, and seem to forget that all that hate on a land raider means an unmolested 10 man Assault Termie Squad with a Priest running around. Provide lots of scary targets, force your opponent to choose - use the unmolested units to ruin his day. THAT'S how Space Marines work.

 

Look, I'm not saying this will beat Leafblower Guard, but it will challenge it. Nick Rose is one of the best players in the country. He took BA to 'Ard Boys only to end up getting curb stomped by the army he himself created (Leafblower/Alpha Strike IG). The Camel is playing with limited access to units. I'm just showing him the dirty tactics that most of us avoid in normal, friendly games to give him an edge.

[Zid]

So, you suggest deep striking his whole army facing a tourney level IG list?

No. Depends on the mission and setup. I said RESERVE, even if he has to walk things on.

 

2) Your suggesting a 10 man sternguard squad w/ priest... ok, why would you do that against a template heavy army?

Note how I mentioned to give them all Combi-melta. Essentially, this is a first turn suicide squad that will dump 9 melta shots into a squadron before taking a LOT of heat. Anyhting that survives is welcome to begin being sternguardy.

 

DS the LR... so that he can drop his vets in and blow it up?

Pretty much, yeah. It's why I spent more time concerned with the payload than discussing getting more raiders. Takes a LOT of hate to kill a LR. Let him focus his army on that purpose first. If it is vets, the DC will vaporize the Vets on contact - then move on to the next target.

 

You're playing a lot of what if, Zid, and seem to forget that all that hate on a land raider means an unmolested 10 man Assault Termie Squad with a Priest running around. Provide lots of scary targets, force your opponent to choose - use the unmolested units to ruin his day. THAT'S how Space Marines work.

 

Look, I'm not saying this will beat Leafblower Guard, but it will challenge it. Nick Rose is one of the best players in the country. He took BA to 'Ard Boys only to end up getting curb stomped by the army he himself created (Leafblower/Alpha Strike IG). The Camel is playing with limited access to units. I'm just showing him the dirty tactics that most of us avoid in normal, friendly games to give him an edge.

 

I do go by "what if's" a lot lol. IG is the strongest army in 40k today, I played em for about 6 months before selling the army off (not my style of play). I'm just not a big fan of sacraficing 200 point units, or spending 335 points on a unit that will kill a tank squadron (if your op has em squaded) just to get taken out. Thats 535 points of potential "sacrafice". I'm all about sacraficial lamb units, but I tend to keep mine cheap to allow for more beef elseware (i.e. 5 sternguard w/ Drop pod and combis = 185 points that will kill whatever it shoots).

 

I guess its all preference. I'm not a big fan of deep striking anything because I run an assault-heavy army... not to mention last time I ran 10 stern w/ combis they killed a raider, then right after a redeemer flamer and some termis killed em (poor scatter). I'm not saying I'm the greatest player in the world, I just have yet to merit deep striking anything but dreads or stern, or spending a lot of points for a sacrafice unit. Didn't mean to come off like a d**k, but like you said, I think a lot of the "what if's".

 

I'd recommend if you go for the alpha-strike style, running dante w/ ams works pretty good. I'd also suggest maybe some scouts w/ beacon, this will allow things to hit near where you want it. An in-your-face army can work, it just works better with vulkan lol

[TheCamel55]

So Zid, how else would you set up an Alpha strike list using the models I have? (and a bit more obviously I can buy things :lol:)

 

Thanks for all the discussion guys, it's certainly helped with my thinking.

 

I suppose I'd prefer to run a list that's fairly reliable. Units in deep strike coming in like turn 4 against an alpha strike army would be fairly terrible :|

 

We generally play 1500 - 2000 points games btw :)

 

Generally, running my land raider across the board just gets it blown up by meltas, and then the termies (which I'd been putting inside it) would be stuck in the middle of nowhere

 

Mephiston has been killing everyone for me and I love him <3

 

My Baal predator has always gone well, burning out anything it wants on first turn

 

Sanguinary Priests + Assault Marines is good, but demolisher cannons and plasma just instantly obliterates it

 

Drop podding melta sternguard sounds good, though it sounds like a big point sink for a suicide squad, I suppose that comes back to the in your face style.

 

Advice?

[Morticon]

Look, I'm not saying this will beat Leafblower Guard, but it will challenge it. Nick Rose is one of the best players in the country. He took BA to 'Ard Boys only to end up getting curb stomped by the army he himself created (Leafblower/Alpha Strike IG).

 

Just a small off topic point for accuracies sake and nothing more.

If you are talking about the Chicago finals, Cole had used the identical list (or near identical) that he had used the previous year at Ard Boyz(and came 4th).

I even challenged him to a game of Vassal last year after his 4th place with my old BA- theres a BatRep up here somewhere with snapshots from the game!

 

So, not to take away credit for making the list famous,but saying he created it or got beaten by the list he created is a bit unfair to the player that stuck to his guns two years in a row.

 

Just making that known since way too many people online saw the winning army and thought "Leafblower CopyCat/Clone", when in actual fact it was the same list he used last year.

[Zid]

So Zid, how else would you set up an Alpha strike list using the models I have? (and a bit more obviously I can buy things :P)

 

Thanks for all the discussion guys, it's certainly helped with my thinking.

 

I suppose I'd prefer to run a list that's fairly reliable. Units in deep strike coming in like turn 4 against an alpha strike army would be fairly terrible :|

 

We generally play 1500 - 2000 points games btw :)

 

Generally, running my land raider across the board just gets it blown up by meltas, and then the termies (which I'd been putting inside it) would be stuck in the middle of nowhere

 

Mephiston has been killing everyone for me and I love him <3

 

My Baal predator has always gone well, burning out anything it wants on first turn

 

Sanguinary Priests + Assault Marines is good, but demolisher cannons and plasma just instantly obliterates it

 

Drop podding melta sternguard sounds good, though it sounds like a big point sink for a suicide squad, I suppose that comes back to the in your face style.

 

Advice?

 

Well, if you (and your opponent) doesn't mind you proxying drop pods using plastic cups or pop bottles, heres a good list using models you have + proxied drop pods:

 

Dante - 225 pts

 

:P

Furioso DN - Blood fists/Melta/HF w/ Drop Pod - 160 pts

Sternguard squad x5 - 5x Combi-meltas w/ drop pod - 185 pts

1x sang priest w/ JP - 75 pts

 

:rolleyes:

10x Assault Marines - 2x melta, 1x pf (go with dante) - 235 pts

10x Assault Marines - 2x melta, 1x PW w/ Drop Pod - 225 pts

5x Scouts - 4 bolters, 1 ML, Beacon - Dunno points (no dex here), 150 pts?

 

Baal Pred - AC/Bolter Sponsons - Dunno points (no dex here), 150 pts?

 

Dreadnought - MM/Fist/HF w/ Drop Pod - 140 pts

Devastators - 3x ML, 1x LC - 150 pts

 

Total: ~ 1750

 

Now, needless to say this isn't my normal suggestion for an award winning list, but its a good start for facing your IG buddy. Everything either has a melta or a bunch of long range power to down stuff. I tacked in a baal because they're great at getting side shots and taking out transports. You have 4 pods, I'd recommend dropping in the 2 dreads first to pop some tankage and take the heat off your other stuff. Scouts you can place close to your foe giving your pods a great dropping point. Dante + squad can come in DS later on, drop where they're needed, and pump 3 meltas into whatever they see. Sternguard target the tank squadrons. Its not the best most flexible list, but it would give your buddy a run for his money. At the very least you'll demolish his transports quickly. I'd recommend pumping whatever you can into dropping his eradicator/russes/vendettas/hellhound/valkyries first. Anything that will kill grouped up guys. Once they're down should be smooth sailing; he can only pick off so many marines a turn without templates!

[Darth Commissar]

To the post above....Why would any guard player EVER take an eradicator versus Space marines?

 

Ignores cover? AWESOME! Strength 6? AWESOME. AP 4noooooooo.

 

Its useless against anything space marine that isnt a scout spam. Id rather take a griffon.

 

So what about these 5 combi meltas? As a marine player myself, where do you get 5 combi meltas. Or do ba get a ton of them? Sternguard are nice for killing MCs and slaughtering hoards, but they instantly loose their use once theyve used their meltas against a tank spam

 

Anyway, I agree, If you dont melee his russ's (or flank them) you really cant kill them. Unless BA have some kind of ...orbital bombardment....

 

also, to the sack comment up there somewhere....this isnt an imperial guard alpha strike list. THIS IS AM IMPERIAL GUARD ALPHA STRIKE LIST!

 

 

HQ: CSS: 50pts

ELITES: Marbo: 65

TROOPS: veteran squad with lasguns, veteran squad with lasguns. 140 points

Fast attack: Vendetta: 130

Heavy Support:

3 x basilisk : 375

3 x basilisk : 375

3 x basilisk : 375

= 1510...DAMN (entire list was joke, this happens to be an emperors wrath arty company yay!)

[Darth Commissar]

*swears violently* Also!

 

Deep stricking is srsly your best option. I run a 5 x drop pod Salamander spam, and it beats mechguard. (Oops, I have vulkan :rolleyes:)

[Zid]

To the post above....Why would any guard player EVER take an eradicator versus Space marines?

 

Meant executioner.

 

And any marine dex can run combi-meltas on every sternguard model (at least vanilla and BA anyway)

[Darth Commissar]

To the post above....Why would any guard player EVER take an eradicator versus Space marines?

 

Meant executioner.

 

And any marine dex can run combi-meltas on every sternguard model (at least vanilla and BA anyway)

 

 

Yeah, I mean get the physical models for it.

[Fortunate Son]

-Put the Termie Sang Priest in with the 10 Assault termies. DS them.

-Buy or kitbash four more sternguard (all you need to two spare terminator storm bolter arms to make 4 new sternguard.) Give them all combi-melta. Put them with the other priest. Drop Pod.

-Pick up 10 Death Company and a Reclusiarch - until then, put 10 RAS w/out jump packs in the Redeemer. Deep Strike it. Remember that it can fire one weapon with PoTMS when DSing. AC for light armor/melta for heavy/Flamestorm for nearby marines or troops. Expect it to catch a lot of heat. The point is to get it into assault and rush into combat.

-Pick up another Drop Pod and paint the Furioso Black. Put a red X on said dreadnought. For extra pimp points, paint the drop pod and redeemer black with red X's. Drop Pod a DC Dread (your other three elite slots are taken.)

-Mephiston.

-DevSquad 2ML/2Las - buy them a rhino or Razorback. Let Mephiston use it while they snipe from the other side of the board (in cover).

-Baal Pred (outflank it)

-Fill out the rest with RAS.

 

Did anybody else catch that during this list of units and tactical advice, one point was "Mephiston"?

That's awesome... not how to use him. Just have him there. He's that amazing. B)