Biker Sergeant: Plasma pistol, or combi-plasma?

[ShinyRhino]

I'm revamping the sergeants of my bike squads to be more shooting oriented, and less close-combat oriented. Formerly, I ran one with a power weapon, and one with a power fist. Since Bikers are not close-combatants, I found I was wasting a lot of points on melee upgrades that never got used.

 

Now, I'm planning to switch the sergeants over to comlimentary weaponry that goes with the special weapons in the biker squads they lead. I run an 8-man squad with double metlaguns, and an attached multimelta attack bike, and an 8-man squad with double plasmaguns and attached heavy bolter attack bike.

 

The melta squad's decision is easy...combi-melta on the sergeant. no other weapon he can take matches the meltaguns in his squad.

 

The tough decision is made on the plasma squad sergeant. I'm trying to decide between a plasma pistol, or a combi-plasma.

The pistol is more expensive, but can be fired many times. The combi is cheaper, but only gets one volley per game.

Biker sergeants do not get a chainsword, and a pistol. Just one, or the other. So, I lose no atacks by taking the combi, nor do I gain any by taking the plasma pistol.

The combi can fire one shot at a 13-24" range band, alongside the squad plasmagunners. Of course, it can fire two at 1-12". The pistol can only fire at 1-12".

 

In general, I want the plasma squad to be firing as many shots as possible at a single target to inflict as many non-savable wounds as I can. basaiclly, I'd be putting at least 5 plasma shots downrange at a target, hoping to cut a typical MEQ squad in half in one volley, or take down a smallish MC in one barrage.

 

So, pistol, or combi?

[mowglie]

So, pistol, or combi?

 

The pistol is 15 points. The combi is 10 points.

 

On average, we must make more than 50% more shots with the pistol over the course of a game in order for it to be a worth the points. (more than because the sergeant can fire his TL bolters instead - 2 plasma shots and 4 TL bolter shots is better than 2 plasma shots and 2 TL bolter shots).

 

So, the crucial question is, how many times do you expect to be able to fire the pistol over the course of the game?

 

I'd be inclined to lean towards the combi. Partly because 4 shots out of your plasma pistol sounds optimistic, and partly because with the targets you're likely to find, 6 shots isn't even nearly overkill. Concentrating all your firepower in one phase means you're more likely to score a decisive hit.

 

*edit* but yes, I agree with the posters below. Not sure bike plasma squads are the way to go.

[awfulawful]

I have been pondering the same thing, and I keep coming to the same conclusion:

I do not want my bikes shooting at, or even spending any unnecessary time near an enemy unit that is less than 12" away. Getting that close puts them within assault range, which means they get at best stuck, at worst killed.

Based on that, the plasma pistol becomes pretty useless, and the combi-plasma is only good for a single shot.

As much as you don't want your bikes in close combat, it will inevitable happen, and I've decided that I want the one guy in the unit who can be kitted out to give me an edge there to be ready to do his part. Power weapons in flamer and plasma squads, fists in melta squads.

[Jackelope King]

I've got to say that most of the time, the answer is "neither".

 

Unless you're playing at 2500 points or more, plasma just isn't worth it. Even in a biker squad, where being Relentless really does overcome one glaring weakness of plasma guns (being a rapid fire weapon in the 13-30" range band). You pay a high premium for that extra shot, and you don't have what amounts to freedom from points restrictions until you get up to 2500 points or so.

 

You've honestly got the right idea, looking to get off as many high S shots as you can with a squad (torrenting is really darn good in 40k). But that's not really the domain of a Biker squad, as far as I'm concerned. Bike squads can bring fast melta to the game (as you've already observed and are utilizing). One fast melta squad is a target and is still fairly easily blocked. Two become a serious concern, and they become extraordinarily difficult to block.

 

Go all in with one or the other. Spamming melta has served me well with my Biker army.

[ShinyRhino]

Good points.

I do plan to add more melta to my army, but am currently engaged in refining the armaments of the existing squads. I'm eventually planning on 2x melta squads, and 2x plasma squads. I know people fear overheats and whatnot from plasma, but I have found the plasmagunners invaluable. The range, combined with the high strength are beautiful.

Meltaguns suffer from that same 12" range band resulting in taking a charge next turn. Plasma at least has double the shots to get the job done.

 

As for points value...the combi gets at most two shots per game, both in the same turn. At the curren tpoints, it's 5 points per shot, best case scenario. That menas I have to fire the pistol three times to "break even", and it'll have to be done over three turns. That is a tough feat to pull off considering its range band. Hmmm.

 

Maybe sticking with his power axe is the best bet, or just a naked sergeant with meltabombs for insurance

[Giga]

If you really must take plasma on bikers, then I say go with combiplasma.

 

That being said, I'd never take plasma on sergeants. Combimeltas are bettah.

[ShinyRhino]

If you really must take plasma on bikers, then I say go with combiplasma.

 

That being said, I'd never take plasma on sergeants. Combimeltas are bettah.

 

I must! I've found the plasmaguns on my bikers squads to be absolutely BRUTAL thus far. They've got an aeefective 24" rapid fire range threat, and a 36" single-shot range threat. In a Marine-heavy environment, they're worth their risks.

 

IMO, a combimelta in a plasma squad just doesn't mesh. I'm paying points for a single 12" melta shot that doesn't really overlap with the targets my plasma want to hit. And if I'm inside that 6" melta bubble, I'm even MORE boned, lol.

 

I think I'm actually going to be stubborn, and go with the plasma pistol sergeant for now. I already have the model built due to a fit of boredom. I'll also be making up two sergeants who have holstered bolters on their bikes, though. That way, if the plasma pistol really stinks, I'll have another model available that can be a naked sergeant, or a combi-bolter sergeant by WYSIWYG.

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

Unless you're playing at 2500 points or more, plasma just isn't worth it.

 

thats just the most rediculous thing i've ever heard. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

 

 

go with the pistol, you're on a bike.

[Jackelope King]

Unless you're playing at 2500 points or more, plasma just isn't worth it.

 

thats just the most rediculous thing i've ever heard. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Right.

 

Plasma can't deal with mech. It doesn't have the Strength, AP, or melta rule that melta weapons bring to the table (for less). It doesn't have the range that you'll see with autocannons.

 

You get an edge against foot marines for a massive premium. If plasma cost the same as melta, I might honestly see it as a legitimate trade-off.

 

But below 2500 points, you just don't have enough high T, good save wounds to shoot through. Unless all you play are foot Marines.

 

Sorry, man.

[ShinyRhino]

Well, the plasma isn't functioning in a vacuum. I've got plenty of other anti-tank in my armies. I run a couple of mechanized tacticals, who pack a missile launcher or multimelta. I've got two multimelta attack bikes, a Typhoon Speeder, and sometimes even Dread support.

Breaking open the transports isn't the hard part. It's putting down whatever crawls out of them.

[Tanhausen]

I remember reading a long-ish post (yours maybe?) claiming that plasma was only worth it at higher point levels.

 

Hunting transports or MC, I'd favour a plasma combi over a melta combi (both cases for infantry, all foot marines or not) for the simple reason that you get double the shots, hence higher wound/glance/internal chances.

 

Haven't done the math, but I guess the only scenario where a melta combi outperforms a plasma combi would be vs AV13+.

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

Unless you're playing at 2500 points or more, plasma just isn't worth it.

 

thats just the most rediculous thing i've ever heard. :P :lol: :lol:

Right.

 

Plasma can't deal with mech. It doesn't have the Strength, AP, or melta rule that melta weapons bring to the table (for less). It doesn't have the range that you'll see with autocannons.

 

You get an edge against foot marines for a massive premium. If plasma cost the same as melta, I might honestly see it as a legitimate trade-off.

 

But below 2500 points, you just don't have enough high T, good save wounds to shoot through. Unless all you play are foot Marines.

 

Sorry, man.

I can take plasma cannons for 5 points. wow what a points sink :huh: LOL

 

once again, thats the most rediculous thing i've ever heard. "plasmas only good in 2500pts+" your brain has malfunctioned on you I think

[Wildfire]

In that choice, I would go for combi-plasma. You're going to be within 12" for rapid-fire or plasma pistol, which means you can be charged. That being the case, I'd rather deal out all the damage I can at once, to reduce that chance.

 

That being said, consider the all-plasma command squad bikers. Only 80 points more, twice the plasma, and better survivability.

[ShinyRhino]

In that choice, I would go for combi-plasma. You're going to be within 12" for rapid-fire or plasma pistol, which means you can be charged. That being the case, I'd rather deal out all the damage I can at once, to reduce that chance.

 

That being said, consider the all-plasma command squad bikers. Only 80 points more, twice the plasma, and better survivability.

 

True enough on the 12" range. Such a tough choice!

 

The all-plasma Biker Command Squad is indeed tempting. Maybe someday when I can build and field two more plasma bikers...