Caestus Assault Ram

[Resv]

First off here are the links:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/CAES...SSAULT-RAM.html

Experimental Rules:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Prod...F/c/caestus.pdf

 

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/large/caestus3.jpg

 

Alright, you should probably read the rules for this thing your self but I am going to toss out the greatest hits of what FW have cooked up here.

 

- AV 13/13/11

- 36 Inches going Flat Out

- 5+ invulerable save on the Front Face

- Ability to carry 10 (yes 10) Terminators

- 18" Twin-Linked Large Blast MELTA WEAPON

- Fast Attack FOC Choice

- Around the same cost as an upgraded Storm Raven/Slightly less than a Land Raider

 

Only thing stopping this beast from being completely game breaking is the lack of Scout. This thing is an utter beast of a unit but the main thing I want to talk about it the Melta Cannon. The standard Melta rules apply but in the form of a 5 inch blast, so against things like a Chimera Wall or any packed together vehicles of any kind within 9" are not going to be happy. If this scatters and you manage to hit side armor on more than one Vehicle you will be rolling quite well for armor penetration even at half of it's initial strength. The range is limited pretty well at a max distance of 18" but with AV13 on the front and sides and the Ceramite Plating rules it is going to be a tough nut to crack. Besides, this is a Vehicle you want to get in close to your enemy quickly since you can take a full 10 man Terminator Unit on board with an Assault Ramp and available Frag Launchers. The Melta Cannon is going to easily punch bit holes in your opponent's army which you can then exploit by dropping some deadly infantry right on in to mop up.

 

I will agree that it has limited utility but as the rules currently stand one or two of these guys with even Tactical Squads on board are going to be scary. Serving in only an Anti-Tank or Anti-Elite role this thing will reek havoc over friendly games left and right. My local tournament scene allows for FW units to be taken with out an opponent consent, mainly to keep armies like WH and DH unique, and this thing is already all the rage and we haven't even talked about it other than through e-mails. I'm really interested to hear what everyone on B'n'C has to say about this thing. Is this a sign of things to come? Might we expect this thing to make an appearance in a future codex much like the Valkyrie did?

[Ryjak]

It'll only hit a Codex if a lot of people buy it from FW first, and I don't see that happening. Even then, I don't expect much of a change, as it'll probably take up a HS Slot, cost a lot of points, AND cost a pretty penny. Tank Killers, like Land Speeders, will have a fairly easy time taking it down before it does anything.

[Silber]

The Firefury Launcher isn't so bad either. 36" 6 4 Heavy4 3"Blast TL, one use. For 25points? Yes, please. Gives you a little more leeway with those "Weapon Destroyed" results, too. If the thing stands as it is now, I'm in. Theoretically speaking, that is....

[Resv]

@Ryjak I think it might just stay as a Fast Attack Option and as far as the Experimental Rules are written its really priced pretty well. It isn't undercosted like the IG Skimmers by any means but it isn't clocking in at over a Land Raider.

 

I just put together a rather quick SW list with three of these things in it and I'm kinda scared of the potential. As a transport option I really like these things but I think Ryjak is correct in saying that these things might never come to a codex unless people buy a lot of them. I'm interested to see how the final rules are written but for right now I'm going to proxy a few of these guys this weekend and test out the rules as they stand. I'll post up my results tomorrow with a quick list breakdown.

[Jackelope King]

Forgeworld already has rules for autocannons on Chimeras. This doesn't even hold a candle to the madness that those rules allow for.

 

I mean, this is still sitting somewhere in the spectrum of reasonable to busted somewhere between stupid and nuts, but still.

[Race Bannon]

My only concern is that this will break SM. We are already seeing a lot of Land Raiders in lists; they're almost SOP past 1,500 points. This lovely obscenity almost makes Land Raiders look like Rhinos. And for almost the same points? Tactics will change: opens up Heavy slot for one while burning up a frequently underused FA slot. And that's just off the top of my head.

 

If I need permission to use this thing in a friendly game then I'll either be wasting $150 or adding one more art piece to collect dust on my shelf :(

 

So, no, I don't think it will become standard issue in 6th ed. If anything, the Stormraven would be passed around first, like the Crusader was.

 

EDIT - oh yeah, Any Space Wolves in Runic Armor will have to walk :blink:

[pueriexdeus]

Regardless of what it ends up playing like, it is downright fugly.

 

Ya i know that this is a game, but common looking at it seems as though very little thought went into it. A shoebox with pretend wings.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

The physical design makes sense if you read its design purpose; it wasn't intended (and probably wouldn't work) as an atmospheric craft. It's like a boarding torpedo that has guns and is fully maneuverable. I didn't like the first time I looked at it. But the more I look at it, the more I like it. As I explained to a buddy of mine earlier (we were having the same discussion), it looks like it belongs to Space Marines: it's big, it's brutish, and it has one obvious purpose: combat. So it's asthetics (or lack thereof) make some sense.

 

But getting to the TACTICA part of this Tactica article, I think it's entire purpose in life is to give all of the non-Blood Angels chapters an equivalent vehicle and tactic to the Stormraven and the genuinely insane ludicrosity that is deep striking Land Raiders (you may notice that Blood Angels cannot take it): that is, to give Space Marines a deep striking and/or skimming vehicle with an assault ramp. The benefit to the Caestus over the other two is the aforementioned fact that different armor and wargear options don't change the transport capacity: no matter what you're wearing, its ten. Ten Terminators, ten Vanguard Veterans with jump packs, ten Assault Marines with jump packs -- it can hold ten Marines and they can charge out of the ramps with frag launchers blazing. This thing has one job, and that is to get Space Marines into melee as quickly as is absolutely possible.

 

Now, that being said, I'm not saying I like it. I'm still deciding if it's worth my money, especially since I need 20 Mk.III suits for my two Sternguard squads (and maybe five more for my Honor Guard if they make P&CCW arms for 'em). And I want to finally get a Titan for my eldar, blahblahblah. . . I'm going to sleep on it for a couple of months.

[Hfran Morkai]

EDIT - oh yeah, Any Space Wolves in Runic Armor will have to walk :rolleyes:

 

Along with anything in Artificer armour :P

 

I don't see it as the death of mech, though I would love to have a wing of these for my Sacking of Prospero themed force for independent deployment of packs to required locations. Though at that price I don't think it would ever happen.

[Brother-Captain Isaac]

Zip around, bust a transport, and unload a tac squad bringing in rapid fire fury. My kind of style :rolleyes:

 

Why stick your SS+TH Termies in a Raider when you've got these?

[Hfran Morkai]

Zip around, bust a transport, and unload a tac squad bringing in rapid fire fury. My kind of style :rolleyes:

 

Why stick your SS+TH Termies in a Raider when you've got these?

 

Because it doesn't feature in a GW Codex, meaning you throw it down in a regular game without discussing with an opponent you might lose a gaming buddy.

 

Shame it's only ten people capacity, still no full Grey Hunter pack with Pack Leader, cunning Forge World.

[KhorneHunter57x]

I doubt that it will be game-breaking. True, it is fast and tough, but it only has one gun and so you can easily glance it to death. However, if it does become popular enough to change the metagame, it will also be the death of Melta, as there are other ways to take down AV 14 and Melta is meh against this.

 

I think that it would be fun to use to ram Titans with in Apoc, though.

EDIT - oh yeah, Any Space Wolves in Runic Armor will have to walk ;)

 

Along with anything in Artificer armour :P

Actually, AA can board it.

[Hfran Morkai]

Actually, AA can board it.

 

Totally didn't notice that, I find that discrimination! XD

[Grey Mage]

EDIT - oh yeah, Any Space Wolves in Runic Armor will have to walk ;)

 

Along with anything in Artificer armour :drool:

 

I don't see it as the death of mech, though I would love to have a wing of these for my Sacking of Prospero themed force for independent deployment of packs to required locations. Though at that price I don't think it would ever happen.

The copy I read mentions Artificer Armor.

 

Runic Armor however is covered, as it is listed as a sub-type of power armor in its own rules.

 

No discrimination here :drool:

[Bannus]

Only thing stopping this beast from being completely game breaking...

Too late for that. :whistling:

[Grey Mage]

Only thing stopping this beast from being completely game breaking...

Too late for that. :whistling:

:) yeah, not like theres not already stormravens about or anything.

[spartan249]

IMO, SMs need stuff like this. It's our equalizer.

[Grey Mage]

IMO, SMs need stuff like this. It's our equalizer.

As opposed to the amazing stat line, the 3+ armor save, or the myriad of excellent special rules and cheap transport options?

 

SMs simply dont NEED fast moving skimmers.

[Jackelope King]

IMO, SMs need stuff like this. It's our equalizer.

Against what?

 

And no, again, Forgeworld can't change the 40k metagame. That'd be like talking about how a new cheat code for a video game's single player mode completely changes the multiplayer mode.

[Koremu]

IMO, SMs need stuff like this. It's our equalizer.

As opposed to the amazing stat line, the 3+ armor save, or the myriad of excellent special rules and cheap transport options?

 

SMs simply dont NEED fast moving skimmers.

Funny to hear that said, given that fast moving skimmers has been part of the SM modus operandi since the concept started... oh for a Plastic Thunderhawk.

 

I still strongly suspect that the Stormraven will get a White Dwarf Codex Marines entry when the model is released, just because GW will want to sell more models.

 

On the other hand this Assault Ram thing is a bit dumb. By the oescription, it's a multi-role Drop Pod / Boarding Torpedo for Terminators...

[Grey Mage]

IMO, SMs need stuff like this. It's our equalizer.

As opposed to the amazing stat line, the 3+ armor save, or the myriad of excellent special rules and cheap transport options?

 

SMs simply dont NEED fast moving skimmers.

Funny to hear that said, given that fast moving skimmers has been part of the SM modus operandi since the concept started... oh for a Plastic Thunderhawk.

 

I still strongly suspect that the Stormraven will get a White Dwarf Codex Marines entry when the model is released, just because GW will want to sell more models.

 

On the other hand this Assault Ram thing is a bit dumb. By the oescription, it's a multi-role Drop Pod / Boarding Torpedo for Terminators...

Except its never been part of the army list. Ever.

 

Roks are a large part of Orks strategic abilities, and theyre often used to spearhead assaults from orbit- orks do not get a giant monolith like vehicle that deep strikes.

 

Nor Tau a Manta, or chaos warp gates, etc etc.

 

Its part of the fluff. It can be represented in apocalypse. It doesnt need to be in every battle.

 

You want to show the effect of a TH Gunship on a battle? Get airstrike that comes in from reserves as the thing flies by supersonic. Dont make marines faster than eldar/DE aswell as tougher.

 

SMs dont need fast moving skimmers on a 6x4 board. Certainly not to represent incredibly valuable flyers that are usually busy denying enemy air superiority fighters a chance of strafing your forces anyways.

[Koremu]

As I say, it's a bit dumb and isn't really necessary (there are better ways of getting Terminators on the ground than this thing).

 

Nonetheless, I dispute your logic about SM fast insertion vehicles as a whole, even while I dislike this flying particular brick.

[Resv]

I tried this thing out in 3 games yesterday and all I can really say about it is that in the end it is just Forgeworld goofy-ness. I played with different numbers of them in each game using Space Wolf and Space Marine lists. With the Space Wolves it was too over the top for even a friendly game. SW moving 36" right into or over your opponent's front line and then sit there and take shots with a 4+ Cover and a 5+ Invulnerable Save. Also, this thing becomes the most reliable way to destroy Land Raiders or anything with high armor. All you have to do it ram something with it's huge range, however it puts the Caestus in danger doing this but I found that the 5+ save can really come in handy. For one game I used one of these skimmers just to Ram what ever I could and ended up with a rather huge kill count.

[Aidoneus]

Also, this thing becomes the most reliable way to destroy Land Raiders or anything with high armor. All you have to do it ram something with it's huge range, however it puts the Caestus in danger doing this but I found that the 5+ save can really come in handy. For one game I used one of these skimmers just to Ram what ever I could and ended up with a rather huge kill count.

How do you figure? I was under the impression that no stat, including strength, can ever go above 10. So no matter how far you moved, I don't think you can get more than S10 (which a ramming Land Raider does after only 9 inches anyway). Compared to half-range melta, I'll take 8+2D6 over 10+1D6 any day, particularly when combined with the melta's AP1.

[Brother-Captain Isaac]

I proxied a pair of them yesterday in lieu of my Speeders and two of my Rhinos. With Dread and Vindi support, they actually busted more tanks and Termies than my old list had ever seen.