Vanguard

[calgaryBA]

I just found some old veteran models, and with all the bits i have i could pretty much tool these 5 guys out with anything imaginable.

 

The problem is i just don't know what to do with them because I've never used Vanguard in a list before. They're pewter models, but luckily the weapon locations on them make conversions easy for changing CC weapons, and more difficult to make decent poses for Sternguard.

 

After reading the Heroic Intervention rule, I'm pretty dead set on giving that a try, and it'd be nice to simply have a squad of Vanguards in my army for collection purposes.

 

Do any of you guys successfully use Vanguards often and how do you equip them? I know they're a pricey bunch of guys so it's all about using them just right.

 

I've found quite a lot of success in the following list here, so chances are I'd work around trading things in and out with this to fit them in. I do have a decent collection of BA though so a lot is possible.

 

 

 

 

 

HQ

Mephiston – 250

 

Astorath - 220

 

ELITE

sanguinary priests – 150

-2x jump packs

 

TROOPS

Assault Squad – 225

-power fist, melta gun

 

Assault Squad – 235

-power fist, melta gun, melta gun

 

Tactical Squad – 200

-PW, plasma gun, plasma cannon

 

Heavy

Vindicator – 170

-siege shield, extra armor

 

Devastator Squad – 138

3x missile launchers, plasma cannon, storm bolter

 

FAST

Baal – 160

-TL AC, HB sponsons, extra armor

 

 

 

TOTAL 1750

[Leardinal]

I try for a full squad with jump packs and a power fist in the squad, keeping the sword on the sarg. This is expensive, so 5 man squads work too. DoA makes HI possible, just remember to deep strike aggressively, especially if using a 5 man squad. Drop them about 4 inches away from target, but make sure there are other targets nearby you can charge if you go to far from scatter. Very rarely do the dice line up to drop you into another squad and give you a mishap. In fact, when I use them I have never had a mishap, and in one game I combat squaded 2 squads of 10, all of them charged, just not all of them charged the original target.

 

Some people like to deck them out, but I prefer to use them as a bonus to my army, not the hammer unit. Therefore I go bare-bones with an additional power fist.

 

Hope my ramblings weren't too hard to figure out...

[calgaryBA]

I try for a full squad with jump packs and a power fist in the squad, keeping the sword on the sarg. This is expensive, so 5 man squads work too. DoA makes HI possible, just remember to deep strike aggressively, especially if using a 5 man squad. Drop them about 4 inches away from target, but make sure there are other targets nearby you can charge if you go to far from scatter. Very rarely do the dice line up to drop you into another squad and give you a mishap. In fact, when I use them I have never had a mishap, and in one game I combat squaded 2 squads of 10, all of them charged, just not all of them charged the original target.

 

Some people like to deck them out, but I prefer to use them as a bonus to my army, not the hammer unit. Therefore I go bare-bones with an additional power fist.

 

Hope my ramblings weren't too hard to figure out...

 

I like it. I'll see what i can do for points, and pick up a box of 5 combat squad guys to convert them for a full 10 man squad of vanguard.

[Brother-Captain Lucius]

I now run two 5 man squads with 1 power fist on each sergeant (thanks to my space wolf friend :) ). They normally arrive on T2 or T3 for me with the re-rolls and i normally use them to tie up squads/ vehicles and sometimes destroy them.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Hi there, calgaryBA!

 

I really like Vanguard Veterans, they add style and fluff to an army (especially BA!) and are not slouches in CC either.

You have to be careful with their equipment, though. I found a single powerfist to be ineffective, and an all-powerweapon squad too expensive(That´s what Sanguinary Guard are there for.) So, after a couple of test-games, I figured out a combination of equipment that fits me best:

 

VAS:

 

5x JP, 1x PW, 1x Hand-flamer(both on one guy), 1x Thunderhammer, 2x LC on Sergeant = 235 pts.

 

The lil´ flamer was included for fun and versatility, you just never know what to face.

 

To maximise their efficiency, I deepstrike them along with my Assault squad with Sanguinary Priest(thanks to DoA, they hopefully arrive on the same turn and close together) so they benefit from both FC and FnP, which really makes a difference against MeQ or other stuff. And, last but not least, you have a unit full of veterans, a unit you can put much effort and time in while painting - a unit that will stand out on the tabletop!

 

 

Snorri

[Leardinal]

To maximise their efficiency, I deepstrike them along with my Assault squad with Sanguinary Priest(thanks to DoA, they hopefully arrive on the same turn and close together) so they benefit from both FC and FnP, which really makes a difference against MeQ or other stuff. And, last but not least, you have a unit full of veterans, a unit you can put much effort and time in while painting - a unit that will stand out on the tabletop!

 

 

Snorri

 

I also Deep strike them with other units. Though, it usually ends up being my entire army because I am trying to get around IG and Tau alpha strike/broadside heavy lists. This tactic has been effective because, in short, the enemy doesn't know what to shoot at, since I usually have about 30-40 marines landing around his army, then use meltas to melt some template tanks.

 

I actually don't like using this tactic, since I usually go second so the opponent has two turns of nothing, but I also don't like having my army crushed before my first turn. I have been trying to deploy most of my army normally, but there never seems to be enough LoS blocking terrain on the board.

[SnorriSnorrison]

I also Deep strike them with other units. Though, it usually ends up being my entire army because I am trying to get around IG and Tau alpha strike/broadside heavy lists. This tactic has been effective because, in short, the enemy doesn't know what to shoot at, since I usually have about 30-40 marines landing around his army, then use meltas to melt some template tanks.

 

I actually don't like using this tactic, since I usually go second so the opponent has two turns of nothing, but I also don't like having my army crushed before my first turn. I have been trying to deploy most of my army normally, but there never seems to be enough LoS blocking terrain on the board.

 

It is not really a tactic, but a quite nice combo. As I usually deepstrike 3 units (VV, RAS and SG) the other half of my army will be walking/driving towards the enemy lines, while these 3 units wreack havoc amongst my foes. :rolleyes:

 

Normally, they land on turn 2, that´s still a turn of shooting and moving my other forces can use to decimate units or destroy dangerous vehicles.

 

 

Snorri

[Brother Theseus]

My squad came out pretty expensive but is good for all around assassinations. Armed mine with a hand flamer, plasma pistol, and infernus pistol. 2 power weapons, a power fist, and one storm shield. Comes out to 280 points. Hand flamer was me just messing around with bits and building a cool model, but the plasma pistol and infernus pistol, combined with a good deepstrike, are good for crippling tanks and artillery pieces. If the deep strike didn't land close enough for the melta bonus on the infernus pistol, then I can just assault with that power fist. I took out several fexes with heroic intervention too, the storm shield has actually saved me more times than I expected.

 

So really, I deepstrike mine behind the enemy's main line, then wreck havok on all their heavy support units. Zoanthropes, nid warrior squads, fexes, vindicators, devestators. Oh, and stay away from any walker with more than 2 attacks at strength 6 or higher. I stupidly heroiced into a defiler once...

[voi shet magir]

storm shield

Yes

 

Complements a claw, which without FC is better than a power weapon/pistol. Since fist or hammer models may not have struck yet when you want to make the invulnerable save, claw models are the best to get a shield, although straight-up shield bearers are good too. Get unique equipment on most models, but probably do not bother with guns.

[Khorneeq]

@ Brother Theseus

 

I'm dissapointed that You didn't read all the rules of Heroic Intervention carefully B)

You cannot assult AND shoot on the turn You deep strike.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I have been running the following 6 man squad with jump packs so I can use HI:

 

Sergeant: thunderhammer & stormshield

Veteran #1: lightning claw & stormshield

Veteran #2: lightning claw & stormshield

Veteran #3: lightning claw & stormshield

Veteran #4: chainsword & bolt pistol

Veteran #5: power sword & infernus pistol

 

It's an expensive unit but they can dish out a lot of punishment & absorb some shooting. I have always used Heroic Intervention when I field them. They are excellent unit for panicking the opponent and forcing them to react. They are also very good at sniping units like Long Fangs and Devastators. Even if your opponent knows you are bringing them they seem to ignore them until they arrive, then it's too late. I typically play at 2000 points so keep that in mind when considering their heft price tag. So they weigh in at 17.5 percent of the total army. I also take the Sanguinor so often the Vanguard sergeant will receive the angel's blessing which is always a nice perk.

 

If you want to field a squad that runs for less points then you could cut my squad back to five, dropping the veteran with the power sword and infernus pistol plus switch out one of the veterans with a lightning claw and stormshield for bolt pistol and chainsword. I like to buff them out so they can hit hard the turn they arrive from reserve. I think the lightning claws are necessary since you'll usually not benefit from furious charge. You want them to do really well the turn they first charge, otherwise I think they are pointless. They will definitely remain as one of my staple units.

 

0b :devil:

[Deus_Sanguinius]

I also take the Sanguinor so often the Vanguard sergeant will receive the angel's blessing which is always a nice perk.

 

Just to get this right. Is the Veteran Sergeant the only one in your army? Because otherwise you cannot give him the Angel's blessing automatically. It is a random choice. So if the Veteran Sergeant is not the only sergeant in your army you have to throw the dice for which one will get the blessing.

[GlauG]

Just to get this right. Is the Veteran Sergeant the only one in your army? Because otherwise you cannot give him the Angel's blessing automatically. It is a random choice. So if the Veteran Sergeant is not the only sergeant in your army you have to throw the dice for which one will get the blessing.

 

 

He said "often" :)

[Deus_Sanguinius]

Ah, ok. Thanks! :drool: I did not recognize this.

[Stownfox]

do vanguard vets get DOA and can they use it with HI? DOA is not in their unit entry.

[Emperors Immortals]

yeah mate, ALL units with JP get DoA

 

 

i use this often, and it fails me rarely :)

 

 

 

reason for edit; HI os not DoA, even though i wish it so.....

[ImperialReaper]

I actually think Storm shields on Vanguards are a very good Idea.

In case your roll very very (and concidering DOA) veeeeery poorly and are unable to charge a unit (or cahrge one and massacre them all) - you will have to endure one turn of shooting. During this turn a 3+ invu save is worth pure gold....

[Leardinal]

I have just realized I made a mistake that changes the advice I offered originally.

 

I was used to thinking about normal squads, but have since went back and reread the points. Now that I have seen the points, I would only get the squads to 10 men if I had plenty of points. It is cheaper to take 2 squads of 5 instead of 1 squad of 10, plus you get another power weapon.

 

This is the inverse of almost every basic squad, so I did not think about it when I originally posted.

 

knowing this now, I would take 2 squads of 5 and use them at the same target, now you have an increased chance to get at least one in combat and they can support each other. I would still try and take an additional power fist. While I agree that storm shields are worth it and would love to put them on the veterans, I don't know if I want to stack that many points in a squad.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Its better to take one squad of 10 as you can always combat squad them.

 

0b ;)

[Leardinal]

@Black Orange: Ah, but it is 25pts more, as a squad of 10 is 240 compared to 2 squads of 5 is 230pts and you get another power weapon

[JamesI]

@Black Orange: Ah, but it is 25pts more, as a squad of 10 is 240 compared to 2 squads of 5 is 230pts and you get another power weapon

A squad of 10 is 215.

[Leardinal]

:) *rereads points* Oops. I kept thinking that 5 more veterans where 125pts more, and that came from me trying to make a bike list. That will teach me to try to make any coherent point with out the book

[mysteriousmaskedmystery]

i like to try and use VV in one of two ways. if you use them in a flying circus list, take two small units, or three if you aren't going to take any land speeders and you have the points. that gives you a good chance of getting a squad or two early, especially with DoA. they are great for tying up shooty units for a turn until your RAS units can assault as well. they don't have to be death stars that go around crushing things on their own. and since they aren't scoring, you can afford to lose them if you have to.

 

in a DP heavy list, take a couple of harder squads to really smash enemy units, use locator beacons and snipe enemy targets. this also works with scout bikes if you are one of the handful of BA players who bothered to paint a squad of those.