BA hoard armies

[NExOBLIVISCARIS]

I’m currently making a anti hoard list and in the middle of making this list I realized that I have no experience in fighting hoards the few games I played were against marines and stuff. So I am currently making that "just in case" army. So I want to know what is great anti hoard material. And I want to know about things that make bodies pile. Because when I want things to die I want bodies to hit the floor and when i want bodies to hit the floor I want them to pile and when I want them to pile I want them to pile fast.

 

So what makes a great hoard list would it be a mech army, a infantry army or a mix of the both? All comments and recommendations are welcome and appreciated.

[Zid]

Well horde armies are always tough... Firstly we'd need to know weather its ground pound IG, nids, or Orks. That would help to get started.

 

As for general suggestions, against any horde style armie pack plenty of flamer weapons, templates (whirlwinds/Vindicators), and hard to kill targets (raiders, etc.). Hordes generally have issues popping higher end armor (13/14) unless its IG. As well, hordes all have low armor. This makes templates and flamers great, you can hit/wound/kill a lot often.

 

Hope this helps some!

[Leardinal]

I would also suggest a tactic: Charge before being charged. Although they have more numbers, the mobs become almost doubly powerful when they charge, since each model gets a bonus attack. Use jump packs to keep out of their assualt range while pecking at them with pistols and special weapons, then either multi charge with 2 squads, or charge a whittled down mob.

Although hoards have difficulty popping high armor, anything with low rear armor should be nowhere near the mobs, as although the mobs are week, there are enough of them to get lucky with at least one glancing hit, which could immobilize it and let them finish it off.

 

I fight a mostly ground pound IG, but they still have tanks. They don't have to move, they know I will come to them. They set up firing lines with platoons and are always ready with first rank, second rank. My army doesn't have any template weapons, all melta, but that is just because that is my play style. The anti infantry is taken care of in my CC. I don't even shoot the mob of Guardsmen when I know I am in charge range, my opponents are savvy and know to allocate wounds to prevent me from getting the charge.

[NExOBLIVISCARIS]

well its been awhile scince i've played (Back at the end of 4th ed) and im waiting to get my drivers liscense (like 2 months) and in the mean time i building my armies. so im kind of going for a all round anti hoard list with things i can change out depending on the army i face.

[jeremy1391]

Baal predators with flamestorm with heavy bolter sponsons

dreads with assault cannon and heavy flamer

ras with flamer in a razorback with TLAC

 

Good reliable unit to hold up the mob in cc like plain death company because they are reliable and won't ever fall back and should help take a chunk out of his numbers.

[NExOBLIVISCARIS]

right now i've got 3 dreads on me (planning to get a 4th and 5th) but they have a plasma cannon and a DCC weapon with a storm bolter an assualt cannon, a DCC Weapon with a storm bolter and an assault cannon with a TLAC or a missle launcher. should i put all three in and then include my land raider crusader? and on terminators should i use an assault cannon or a missle launcher?

[jeremy1391]

For anti hoard with termies i would use the assault cannon, because if the hoard spreads out then your blast templates will only hit one or two where as an assault cannon can hit four enemies with a little luck.

[NExOBLIVISCARIS]

what about the three dreads? should i just include all of them

[jeremy1391]

Dreads can be good at anti horde if geared correctly ie

assault cannon and a heavy flamer is good

 

where as a dread with a lascanon and storm bolter is less ideal.

[NExOBLIVISCARIS]

what about with the options i listed above?

[Somar]

in my army i have a few units that are geared to fighting hordes:

- 8 man DC with 2 PF and bolter, 2 bolter, 2 BP and CC weapon, 2 BP and PW with a basic chappy.

lets see how they do against a mob of 30 orks.

first 14 bolter shots, thats about 4 dead orks.

on the charge the chappy has 4 attacks with re rolls to hit, lets say 1 dead ork.

the bolter and CC weapon dudes have 14 attacks, with FC and re rolls to hit and wound that is about 8 dead orks.

the PW dudes get 8 attacks, thats about 5 more dead orks.

 

now the orks attack, 11 left and a nob with PC.

11 orks, 33 attacks 17 hits, 6 wounds, 2 failed saves, 1 failed FNP, 1 dead DC.

nob with 3 attacks kills another 2. (one if you dare the chappy inv save and it works)

6 PF attacks kill another 5 orks.

 

7 orks left that have to make a morale check on 2. good chance to run em down.

 

next unit is a 10 man RAS with 2 flamers, a sarge with PF and a priest with JP.

they do pretty well too.

 

3rd unit is a LS typhoon, at 36" 3 HB shots and 2 ST4 templates, great for thinning down big units and with a move of 12" it can find nice cover to hide from units that can reach out and shoot it.

 

DC are also great against mech stuff and MEQ, rest of the army has a bunch of stuff good against mech and MEQ (a full dev squad with 2 ML and 2 LCs, another RAS with 2 MG and IP, HF razorback, HG with 2 MG, tac squad with PC,PG and mephiston)

 

2000 points that are fun to play and have some stuff against everything.

[Somar]

right now i've got 3 dreads on me (planning to get a 4th and 5th) but they have a plasma cannon and a DCC weapon with a storm bolter an assualt cannon, a DCC Weapon with a storm bolter and an assault cannon with a TLAC or a missle launcher. should i put all three in and then include my land raider crusader? and on terminators should i use an assault cannon or a missle launcher?

 

personally i dont think too much of shooty dreads, one lucky shot can take them out and the amount of fire they put out is not all that great.

i would maybe try a furioso with frag cannon and HF in a drop pod, something to really tear up a unit of say lootas or decimate a big ork mob.

or a furioso with blood talons, that AR 13 helps a lot against that nob with power claw (5 to glance, 6 to penetrate)

 

an assault cannon kills about 2 per round, so it is weak against hordes.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I always felt the best way to beat horde is in hand to hand co

combat. Orks are fearless above 10 and Nidz have synapse. Use fearless against them to make them lose combat via linked multi charges and force them to take lots of saves. Close combat for 5ed was designed to be brutal.

 

0b :D

[Zealadin]

Baal predators with flamestorm with heavy bolter sponsons

dreads with assault cannon and heavy flamer

ras with flamer in a razorback with TLAC

 

Good reliable unit to hold up the mob in cc like plain death company because they are reliable and won't ever fall back and should help take a chunk out of his numbers.

 

I would be inclined to disagree with Baal Preds, I'm sorry to say, if they are using flamestorms you want to be killing stuff thats armour save it being ignored (like a 3+), cause a horde will suck up the wounds then eat the tank alive through massed attacks. Baal also don't have the shots needed to really do some damage.

 

Dreads agaain suffer because most horde have hidden powerfists or similar that will hide in the squad and pop your dread, against some enemies purely as a way of bogging down units they aren't too bad, but if I really wanted something effective I would be using a dread with blood talons NOT a shooty load out. If it gets the charge and you roll well you should do ALOT of damage. Getting them there however can be an issue. The Blood Talon Dread is also a good choice against almost any opponent too.

 

RAS with a flamer in a Razor isn't my playstyle, but also to me is a total waste of points, since most horde have low saves you want to get into combat, with multiple units of your own picking on a single unit of theirs. Its just a terrible way of saying "assault meeeeee" since you'll jump out shoot a flamer and kill what... 3? maybe 4 and then get charged next round and die horribly.

Yout better with a tac squad with a flamer for this job since you have bolters. But again unless you leverage your force against theirs it won't end well unless your really wiping out big squads to avoid getting charged the next turn.

 

Tailoring is also considered a pretty bad method of trying to play, its bad sportsmanship, and is generally just boring. You should have avenues of dealing with horde in your army regardless, and just change your strategy a bit to make sure you can take advantage of this when your facing this kind of opponent.

 

I would probably be tempted to say Death Co in a transport, since if they have a fair number have bolters (my personal preference) you can drop them off far enough away not to get charged, shoot off a few shots and do some damage (relentless +24"), then if played right probably get the charge the following turn (assuming your opponent didn't run away - which alot of horde don't do). They pack a punch in assault, and also are nasty since they have FnP automatically and will be harder to just whittle down from mass attacks. I'm still on the fence about using them however, since ideally you want an assault vehicle.

 

Normal Assault Squads, certainly should be one of your main choices, in conjunction with a nearby chalice, they put out a fair amount of attacks at good str and I, they get FNP, and have the mobility to ensure they get the charge.

This is of course if you don't just stick them all in razorbacks like some people do. ^.^

[Drachnon]

I really don't like tailoring lists against specific army types but if you really wanted to make an anti horde list I'd say just field only tactical marines with a heavy bolter and a flamer. You should be able to field 5 + an HQ of no more then 150 points. Then you can start boltering the enemy down with the occasional flamer on any squad that doesn't spread out enough.

[lunchb0x]

Ive said it once, ill say it again.

 

Flamers,Heavy Bolters, Frag Missiles. ( okay okay assault cannons )

 

The true anti-hoard, since 2nd!!

[Wildfire]

I always felt the best way to beat horde is in hand to hand co

combat. Orks are fearless above 10 and Nidz have synapse. Use fearless against them to make them lose combat via linked multi charges and force them to take lots of saves. Close combat for 5ed was designed to be brutal.

 

0b :(

 

^ This.

 

BO is exactly right. Hordes hate being assualted in multi-combats, but especially when they're fearless and have poor saves. The penalty for losing combat (based as it is on numbers instead of unit value) is horrendus when you're killing 8 more models than your opponent. Applying that penalty to 2 or more units individually will make your opponent cry.

[lorider2]

I recommend the Furioso Dreadnought. Its better for MEQ but it still racks up the kills and as its AV13 and never breaks its hard for hordes.

[Zid]

Blood talons also work great vs hordes on a furioso, I've killed 20+ orcs on the charge before (due to fearless). Their PK needs a 5 or 6 to do anything to your dread! Heavy flamers, frag cannons, normal flamers, Death company are all pretty good against hordes. Templates of any kind as well.

 

On the note of "charging" into hordes, I'll disagree on two fronts: mobs of 30 boyz and hormagaunts. Unless you whittle them down prior to charging you'll lose over time. I've learned this account first hand; I decided to be cocky and charge a 10 man AM squad w/ priest into a 30 boy horde. I did dual flamer them before, killed about 5 boys. I charged in. After all was said and done I killed another 8 or so before my PF. There was about 17 left, including the nob. That meant I was taking 46 attacks to the face... he rolled well, managed about 8 wounds. I saved about half. My PF killed 1 more, his PK killed 1 more. So he lost 9, I lost 4 guys, he lost 5 more to fearless, so 12 vs 7 now. I rolled horribly the next round, and he rolled well, killing 3 more marines and I killed 3 orcs. 9 vs 4 now. I had to charge meph in to clear em out and save my remaining marines from certain doom.

 

While this might be more the exception than the norm, needless to say, I learned to try and kill 10 or so before charging in. This will almost guarentee (rolls pending) to kick them below fearless. Hormagaunts are the same, due to an absurd amount of attacks and wounding on 4+ all the time, you HAVE to shoot some down. I5 is no joke!

[Kunanaki]

As somebody who has the had the fortune of a pretty varied gaming store, I can give a bit of help without tailoring your list specifically to combat hordes.

 

I present 3 Anti Horde Options that will assist you.

 

1. The classic Vindicator with Siege Shield. In the blood angels list, you get something to the effect of the Koolaid Man if he was stuffed with acid. Strength 10 AP 2 pie plates will make your opponent think twice about attacking wherever you want to place it, and deep strikes / infiltrating becomes a thing to second guess.

 

2. Heavy flamer and Multi Melta combination Land Speeders. For a 70 point model, you have a very mean harassing, late game objective contesting horror that can burn people off of objectives or hunt down those annoying heavy armored foes. I usually like to take two of these and 1 with double heavy flamers. It's a mean 200 points, and it's not like most of us use our fast attack slots anyway, so three independent speeders can be handy. (Side Note, if you're not taking a lot of armor or other high threat models, then leave them in the squadron, to give them a bit more added padding. Armor 10 all sides is like tissue paper)

 

3. Blood Talon'd Dreadnought. I prefer the Elite Dreadnought choice, due to the fact you can actually control him, and give him a heavy flamer with a Drop Pod. It's a good flank harassing unit, tends to chew into a squad before selectively snagging them into a long, drawn out combat. My Favorite unit to remove? Gretchin. I despise gretchin, so having a fairly cheap (For Space Marines) option to completely make them useless, and potentially carve them out of existence fast, is wonderful.

 

These three options provide flexibility and, while not specifically geared only for hordes, have enough all comers feel to never be a points sink waste.