malika666 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 I'm curious, what were the relationships between the Alpha Legion with the other Legions. I know there was rivalry between the sons of Alpharius and the Ultramarines and that Alpharius looked up to Horus. But what about the rest? Is there any official info out there? I vaguely remember something about the Imperial Fists being disliked as well and the Word Bearers too, but I can't confirm it. So is there any info on this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207649-alpha-legion-and-the-other-legions/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 This is from their description in the 3rd Edition Codex Chaos Space Marines, page 32: "The Alpha Legion was the twentieth and last legion created in the First Founding. Though the youngest, or perhaps because of it, the Alpha Legion sought to outshine its brethren in all things, as if to prove their worthiness amidst the older legions. Their pride led to a number of incidents where members of the Alpha Legion clashed with and even fought against members of the other legions in existence at that time. In particular there seems to have been a strong mutual hatred between the Alpha Legion and the Imperial Fists as they had clashed on more than one occasion prior to the Heresy." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207649-alpha-legion-and-the-other-legions/#findComment-2477106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted July 31, 2010 Author Share Posted July 31, 2010 Seems a bit odd right? That the Alpha Legion was already attacking the other Legions during the Great Crusade and the rest of the Primarchs and even Emperor, who is distracted on Terra, not noticing anything... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207649-alpha-legion-and-the-other-legions/#findComment-2477122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 They were not simply attacking other Legion sout of the blue. There was conflict and disagreement between the Legions, possibly about how to handle things or how to proceed with a liberated world. In the current Codex Space Wolves they are described as having fought against the Flesh Teareres about such things. For example, the Imperial Fists may have planned an assault on an enemy city, while the Alpha Legion wanted in on the action. The Imperial Fists denied their help, but the Alpha Legion rigged the city with explosives or targeted it with artillery anyway, so when the Imperial Fists attack they suffer casualties to friendly fire from the Alpha Legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207649-alpha-legion-and-the-other-legions/#findComment-2477146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxom Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Dan Abnett's Legion provides a really good portrait of the Alpha Legion. They're described as very loyal to the ideas of the Emperor, cunning, and most importantly, that they think for themselves. Their relations with the other legions is not described much in it though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207649-alpha-legion-and-the-other-legions/#findComment-2477182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynamicspartan Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 I remember that they were friends with the Luna Wolves as Horus found Alpharius and they almost got into a battle before they realized that they were brothers. They also weren't friends with the Ultramarines, but that's a given. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207649-alpha-legion-and-the-other-legions/#findComment-2481963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 The way I understand it, the "stuffier" Primarchs like Guilliman and Dorn didn't get along with Alpharius because he was, in essence, a control freak. He needed to know every little tidbit of information possible going into a situation, and he always sought to stack the deck in his favor by any means necessary. Specifically, he and Guilliman (whom Alpharius refers to simply as "Roboute" in Legion; using a first name rather than a last name seems like a mark of respect to me) clashed over the Alphas' use of below-the-belt tactics: infiltration, sabotage, the use of human agents, etc. These did not fit with the right and honorable code that Guilliman espoused, while Alpharius found Guilliman's arrogance to be. . . distasteful at best, I'd think. As for Dorn. . . well, the Imperial Fists are notoriously stubborn, while the Alphas' pragmatism would dictate things like tactical withdrawals. Another thing to consider is that while the Primarchs are all ostensibly the same age, Alpharius was found last and his Legion was the last one founded (20th), so I can't help but imagine the other Primarchs looked at Alpharius as the young one, the little kid brother. Guilliman in particular certainly seems to come off that way in what little interaction between them we've been told about. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207649-alpha-legion-and-the-other-legions/#findComment-2482261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 Specifically, he and Guilliman (whom Alpharius refers to simply as "Roboute" in Legion; using a first name rather than a last name seems like a mark of respect to me) clashed over the Alphas' use of below-the-belt tactics: infiltration, sabotage, the use of human agents, etc. These did not fit with the right and honorable code that Guilliman espoused, while Alpharius found Guilliman's arrogance to be. . . distasteful at best, I'd think. In contrast to Alpharius using the first name, IIRC in "The Dark King" there they make a point about how Rogal Dorn allways adresses Konrad Curze with his surname, which is seen as reservations. I don't think that "Legion" speaks of Guilliman as arrogant, though. I have not read it, but I have skimmed it specifically for passages including Guilliman, and while he is stated a few times as despising Alpharius' underhanded methods, Alpharius himself in return merely states that he is ignoring him. Another passage speaks of Guilliman's ideals of conduct, which Alpharius did not really care for, so he was obviously not at all interested in Guilliman's opinion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207649-alpha-legion-and-the-other-legions/#findComment-2484357 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 Ah, the correct thread this time: We are often told that everything the Alpha Legion say’s is a lie, and taking the “hint” that Alpharius Omegon refer to Guilliman as his first name (informality an indication of potential closeness), wouldn’t it be a great twist if they actually got on really well? Wouldn’t it be an even better twist if the Alpha Legion really were still loyalist at this stage and were acting in concert with the Ultramarines? That sets the stage for more hurt of betrayal of course, as the present day Alpha Legion have Daemon Princes and commit genocide etc, so likely are a little less loyalist than they used to be. The betrayal could be against their secret allies the Ultramarines, or even better with one of the twins turning traitor and the other remaining loyalist… Its even possible Alpharius deliberately provoked Guilliman’s hatred when he actually felt warmth to him, to fulfil the goals of one of his intricate plans, the loyalist magic trick thing above. Man, if I was given just a single chance to prove my mettle writing a novel, I would blow everyone away…! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207649-alpha-legion-and-the-other-legions/#findComment-2484599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Sangha Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Ya honestly thats what never made sense to me. the fact that the Alpha Legion now has such things as demon princes and other Chaosy related things. even though they dont worship any particular chaos diety, you would think they were more renegade rather then chaos Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207649-alpha-legion-and-the-other-legions/#findComment-2487239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Same thing with the Night Lords, but as ADB demonstrated in Soul Hunter, there will always be those who want the extra power Chaos can provide and sell their souls. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207649-alpha-legion-and-the-other-legions/#findComment-2487297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culebras Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Ya honestly thats what never made sense to me. the fact that the Alpha Legion now has such things as demon princes and other Chaosy related things. even though they dont worship any particular chaos diety, you would think they were more renegade rather then chaos Ahh, but you're assuming they work like a space marine chapter in which everyone reports to one chapter master. The Alpha legion may not be as dispersed and disjointed as say the worldeaters or the Emperor's children, which have pretty much disolved into roving bands and war parties, but they are not necessarily one big united family. The symbol of the Alpha legion is the hydra, a symbolic animal representing many heads, therefore many leaders. Cut off one head and two more take its place. Those heads may have completely different ways of accomplishing their goals, and (from what I understand) Apharius did nothing to curb this behavior in his commanders. Also remember that the legion was trained to think and operate as independent groups, not as a united sledgehammer force like the Imperial Fists. Therefore, you could have groups that are merely "renegade" and you can also have the "deep black ops" kind of groups, sort of like radical inquisitors. Using chaos, but with a purpose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/207649-alpha-legion-and-the-other-legions/#findComment-2487532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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