Swiftclaw centered Assault List?

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

Space Wolves traditionally hate jump packs, and the cavalry and wolves are great and all, but not for me right now. So the remaining fast attack assault option is Swiftclaws.

 

1500 point list

 

After taking 3 units of Grey Hunters (edited to add) with 3 Rhinos and 2 LF packs with missiles, there'd be about 700 points to go:

 

 

Wolf Priest on a Bike, Runic Armor, melta bomb - 160

Wolf Guard, Bike, Powerfist - 73

 

6 Swiftclaws - 150

Power weapon - 15

1 Swiftclaw Attack Bike - 30

 

 

Total - 428 - 9 Bikes, Oath of War, 2 Power weapons, 1 Powerfist, melta bomb.

 

Leaving ~ 170 points for other assault-y shenanigans. Would this list be viable at all?

[wolf363839]

Seems like you've covered your bases, but you might use the remaining points to beef up the GH's and/or give them Rhinos to keep up with the bikes and protect your scoring units. The trick will be finding the target for your bikes, i.e. the soft underbelly of the enemy formation.

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

Thanks. I forgot to mention I included the Rhinos in my rough calculation.

 

I am a fairly new player, and while I have a good handle on what makes a good Shooting focused Space Wolves list, I am a little lost as to how to build a more close combat oriented one.

[Valerian]

It's actually a perfectly viable core for the assault force portion of your army. If you look at other options, you would easily be spending that many points on an assault force + HQ escort. They also have several advantages a) they are Relentless, so you can still shoot and charge, b) the Boltguns are Twin-Linked on the Bikes, so that makes up for the lower Ballistic Skill, c) they have an increased Toughness , which helps you avoid taking wounds, and d) they have excellent tactical mobility, with the ability to Turbo-boost up to 24", which leads to e) the 4+ Cover Save that they can generate for themselves. I would add a cheap Flamer or Meltagun to the unit just to increase their threat against either infantry or vehicles. It's always nice to blow a transport and then get to charge the juicy contents, rather than having to get the transport in close combat. Sure the BS is just a 3, but the Meltagun is cheap and you still hit half of the time!

 

I think the main problem with a large SwiftClaw Pack is that they are pretty expensive to buy and build all of the models that you need to make a Pack like you have proposed. That's probably why you don't see them in too many army lists; people can go to eBay and order TWC models and build a comparable unit for much less actual $$$

 

Valerian

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

You are right, the real world cost issue is always a factor. And a flamer or melta isn't a bad idea at all considering what they can do for their cost.

 

Speaking of the turbo-boost, in my rule book it says it is a 3+ cover save, which is even better than a 4+!

[Valerian]

You are right, the real world cost issue is always a factor. And a flamer or melta isn't a bad idea at all considering what they can do for their cost.

 

Speaking of the turbo-boost, in my rule book it says it is a 3+ cover save, which is even better than a 4+!

 

Oops yeah typo, 3+ is correct.

[Dyre]

Two suggestions to finish off the list...

 

Two razorbacks with TL Las for the long fangs or Two speeders with MM/HF.

[littlbitz]

I almost always run SwiftClaws in my lists, alot of SwiftClaws.

 

I find that one pack isn't enough to perform the task it looks like you are going to give it. You will definitely need 2 packs.

 

I run a standard formation for my Biker packs: 3 Bikers, one with a Power Fist, a Meltagun is optional and only put in the pack if I have spare points, I add in an Attackbike with a Heavybolter to keep him cheap, I always lead them with a Wolfguard Pack leader so any ICs I have on bikes can split off.

And this is the important part, the whole pack gets Meltabombs.

 

Two packs like that provide you with a nice amount of anti-infantry fire power, good anti-tank and is very punchy in CC.

[Stormbrow II]

I always lead them with a Wolfguard Pack leader so any ICs I have on bikes can split off.

Are Pack Leaders with Fists worth it? They seem awfully expensive for a 1 wound model when you can simply put 3 extra models into the unit for almost the same points, especially as they're fighting last when given a Fist.

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

Hmm, you are right. If I am taking an IC, a Wolf Guard seems like a massive waste.

 

73 points for one with a powerfist, 3 attacks on the charge, 2 otherwise

50 points for a Swiftclaw with fist, 3 attacks on the charge, 1 otherwise.

 

For only two points more than the wolf guard, I could afford 2 bikes, one normal and one with powerfist. The only advantage of a Guard, is the ability to throw one more power weapon into the squad, since a Skyclaw unit can only have one.

[Hear da Lamentation]

I've been talking to Littlbitz a bit about his use of bikes and getting lots of good advice. I have to say I love them. I've played about 4 times with them so far - and at the moment I am still getting used to them. It's one of the reasons I like them - they are sooo versatile it is often hard to choose which roll for them to fill at any given time. So far they have never been the star unit (that is always the grey hunters for me) but they REALLY worry the opponents and keep them off guard.

 

I'm looking forward to improving my tactics with them. They have already been great in every fight I've had and that's with me making quite a few mistakes. The only way is up for these boys B)

 

At 1250 points I play :

1 Wolf Priest bike, WTT, runic armour

4 bikers 1pf

1 attack bike multimelta

all with melta bombs

 

If I have more points I add the WG with fist, but as I don't plan on separating the wolf priest from the unit, I don't really need him as much. Would be nice to have the extra pf, but at 73points, it's expensive.

[littlbitz]

You don't need the Wolfguard if your ICs are going to stay with the pack, but you lose alot of tactical flexibility.

 

With the Wolfguard in the pack, not only are you gaining an extra fist attack, you are giving your Bloodclaws the ability to shoot if they are in charge range, and you are giving them an extra point of leadership.

[Valerian]

Hmm, you are right. If I am taking an IC, a Wolf Guard seems like a massive waste.

 

Not really Fred. Remember that you are building an assault unit, and for the points this will probably be your primary assault unit, so no skimping on the points here. For units that you intend to get into close combat with the enemy, you want to take every special close combat weapon that you can. An assault unit isn't going to be able to do it's job well if you are letting your opponent take armour saves, so you want to take advantage of your weapons that allow you to bypass the save. A Swift Claw pack by itself only gets one special close combat weapon; by adding an IC you'll have a second, and by also including a Wolf Guard Leader, you've just gotten a third. At least one of those needs to be a high-strength weapon, and frankly, I'll recommend that you take one on both the Wolf Guard Leader (Thunder Hammer) and the Swift Claw (Power Fist) since they can be hidden in the squad. The IC is going to want to take advantage of his higher Initiative (assuming a Wolf Lord or Battle Leader) so will want either a Wolf Claw or a Frost Blade. Over the course of a typical game, you are going to get a lot more kills from an additional Fist than you would from one or two more basic Swift Claws, especially against well-armoured foes like other Space Marines. If you need to skimp on special close combat weapons do it somewhere else, in units whose sole purpose in life isn't to get into close combat with the enemy.

 

Also, as already stated, sometimes it will just make good tactical sense to split of the IC and send him elsewhere. When you do this, you still want a viable Pack remaining that can still accomplish its mission. With no Wolf Guard Leader this option is no longer available to you. Do a search for littlebitz and look at some of his old Battle Reports to see how he often does this in games to great effect.

 

This will make the unit a little more expensive, but keep in mind what you intend to do with them. Ideally, they would be able to go toe-to-toe with any of your enemy's specialized assault forces. At a minimum you are going to depend on them to chew through a couple of your enemy's basic Scoring troops units, or to go gobble up Kill Points by taking out several of his weaker units.

 

Regards,

 

Valerian

[Chalx the grey]

I just started using bikes and I don't think you should put them against dedicated assault units, specially the smaller packs (i.e. WG + 3 bikes + att. bike). They do a much better job flanking your main force to get to the enemy backfield units shooting AP 1, AP2 and AP3 fire. I don't think they need more than the WG PF and their kraks to do a decent anti-tank job, they shouldn't be chasing Land Raiders anyway!

[Hear da Lamentation]

Thanks for the good advice once again Littlbitz and Valerian. I'm still experimenting the the bikers, but I know what you mean about the power fists. A couple of fights I've had I've missed the extra fist. I have to say I think I've probably missed the "meltabombs all round" a bit more :P I'd forgotten about those Littlbitz (doh!)

 

I don't really use them as my primary assault force at the moment - I go for the soft underbelly of the forces. However, this does sometimes leave them very exposed to a counter attack while caught in combat. Again, I think I need more practice with them.

 

My issue with using them as the primary assault force is how vulnerable they are to power weapon attacks. T5 is great, but without the 3+save, each wound is an expensive loss. I got a unit of 3bikers with pf, 1 attack bike, 1wg pf and a wolflord biker th,ss,wtt,ra,eternal warrior in combat with a group of 6 meganobz (well ... they attacked me after I'd wiped out his missile boys.) Got totally wiped out ! Obviously this wasn't the best plan for me, although to be fair they did a great job of wiping out those rocket launcher guys and attracting the meganobz into the back corner of the board, well away from everything else. It did teach me to beware power weapons though for these guys.

[Valerian]

My issue with using them as the primary assault force is how vulnerable they are to power weapon attacks. T5 is great, but without the 3+save, each wound is an expensive loss. I got a unit of 3bikers with pf, 1 attack bike, 1wg pf and a wolflord biker th,ss,wtt,ra,eternal warrior in combat with a group of 6 meganobz (well ... they attacked me after I'd wiped out his missile boys.) Got totally wiped out ! Obviously this wasn't the best plan for me, although to be fair they did a great job of wiping out those rocket launcher guys and attracting the meganobz into the back corner of the board, well away from everything else. It did teach me to beware power weapons though for these guys.

 

Yep, well, everybody has to be on the lookout for power weapons/fist and generally anything that doesn't allow armor saves. As you can see, you have to pick your fights, even with the dedicated assault unit, and you have to stay aware of what is in countercharge range. Get rid of his threatening countercharge units (like the meganobz) with your long-ranged firepower before diving in to chew up the "soft underbelly".

 

V

[LoneSniperSG]

and d) they have excellent tactical mobility, with the ability to Turbo-boost up to 24", which leads to e) the 4+ Cover Save that they can generate for themselves.

Valerian

 

Actually, a Turbo-boost is 13" up to 18". I was under the impression that you can't divy up the movement, i.e., move 6" and then turbo-boost. Atleast, that's how it was ruled in the last tourney I was in.

[Valerian]

and d) they have excellent tactical mobility, with the ability to Turbo-boost up to 24", which leads to e) the 4+ Cover Save that they can generate for themselves.

Valerian

 

Actually, a Turbo-boost is 13" up to 18". I was under the impression that you can't divy up the movement, i.e., move 6" and then turbo-boost. Atleast, that's how it was ruled in the last tourney I was in.

 

LoneSniper,

 

Check your rulebook, Bikes can Turboboost up to 24". A normal Movement for a Bike is up to 12", and they can still Shoot if you go that far, and still Assault, too, since they are Relentless. If you want to go over 12", though, you can go up to 24", by declaring that you are using your Turboboost option; you get a 3+ Cover Save, too, but cannot Shoot or Assault when you Boost.

 

Also, there is no divying up the Movement - you just Move; if you move any distance between 12" and 24" it is a Turboboost. If you move less than 12" then it isn't.

 

V

[Wildfire]

The thing I've found playing normal SM bikes (haven't tried the assualtier SW bikes) is that if they get bogged down in assualt they die. After reading a large number of littlbitz's batreps, I've come to the conclusion that SW bikers are no different in this respect. The problem is that SW bikers are best in assault. This means that you must win combat in one or two combat phases if you want them to contribute any further. The reason to include a WG is to give them as much assualt power as possible, making a short combat more likely.

 

My other conclusion from using C:SM bikes is that large squads take up too much space, making maneuver difficult. Also, standard bikers aren't that great. What makes C:SM bikers nice is the ability to take multiple special weapons in a small squad, and the mobility to use those special weapons without exposing themselves much. I theorize that what makes C:SW bikers great is the ability to take multiple special CC weapons in a small squad, and the mobility to let them choose where they assualt.

 

Hope that helps.

[Sarapham]

and d) they have excellent tactical mobility, with the ability to Turbo-boost up to 24", which leads to e) the 4+ Cover Save that they can generate for themselves.

Valerian

 

Actually, a Turbo-boost is 13" up to 18". I was under the impression that you can't divy up the movement, i.e., move 6" and then turbo-boost. Atleast, that's how it was ruled in the last tourney I was in.

 

LoneSniper,

 

Check your rulebook, Bikes can Turboboost up to 24". A normal Movement for a Bike is up to 12", and they can still Shoot if you go that far, and still Assault, too, since they are Relentless. If you want to go over 12", though, you can go up to 24", by declaring that you are using your Turboboost option; you get a 3+ Cover Save, too, but cannot Shoot or Assault when you Boost.

 

Also, there is no divying up the Movement - you just Move; if you move any distance between 12" and 24" it is a Turboboost. If you move less than 12" then it isn't.

 

V

 

Dont you have to move atleast 18" to get the coversave?

[RADU LYKAN]

my current assaulty unit is 5 blood claws on bikes (why the hell are they called swift claws?????) with a power fist and a wolf guard battle leader. they arent designed to take on dedicated assault units but are great at smashing softer targets like devestators or tying up horde units, their toughness 5 and 3+ save can be fun against massed units of gaunts or guard etc as well as massed rapid fire on the way in.

heres my list

wolf guard battle leader, frost blade, storm shield, bike

10 grey hunters, 1 power fist, 2 melta guns, 1 plasma pistol, drop pod

10 grey hunters, 1 power fist, 2 plasma guns, rhino

10 grey hunters, 1 power fist, 2 flamers, wolf banner, mark of the wulfen, rhino

6 grey hunters plasma gun, power weapon, razorback, lascannons

5 swift claws, 1 power fist

predator annihilator, extra armour

vindicator, siege shield, extra armour

=1500

i know its not massivley competitive (siege shield, lack of wolf guard in grey hunters etc) but i mostly play for fun and the bikes add to that fun

[Valerian]

Dont you have to move atleast 18" to get the coversave?

 

Yes that's right, sorry. Anything over 12" requires Turboboost, but you have to end up more than 18" from where you started to get the Cover Save.

[the akratic]

I think the main problem with a large SwiftClaw Pack is that they are pretty expensive to buy and build all of the models that you need to make a Pack like you have proposed. That's probably why you don't see them in too many army lists; people can go to eBay and order TWC models and build a comparable unit for much less actual $$$

 

Valerian

 

I would recommend getting the Ravenwing Battleforce from an online store like Maesltrom Games. I got it for 45 pounds, which converted to about $65 canadian. It comes with 6 bikes, an attack bike (which can be made into a regular bike if you like), plus a land speeder. All of the ravenwing bits are in addition to the complete models, so you can just store them in the bitz box.

 

If you're concerned about cost, this is definitely the best option.

[Wildfire]

Dont you have to move atleast 18" to get the coversave?

 

Yes that's right, sorry. Anything over 12" requires Turboboost, but you have to end up more than 18" from where you started to get the Cover Save.

 

Huh. Glad you guys mentioned that, I hadn't noticed the change.