ATSKNF, Pile-in moves & drop pods (again)

[Captain Denaro]

A few issues have come up in recent games I've played that perhaps someone can shed light on for me;

 

1. And they shall know no fear - some players insist that a falling back unit will regroup automatically at the table edge, but I can't see this anywhere in the rules. Surely marines leave the table (never to return) like other troops?

2. I had a player argue vehemently that Drop pod doors are difficult terrain once open. I see that there is a long thread for this already - my understanding is that when the doors are closed they're part of the hull but when they're open they're just doors, otherwise you'd be measuring range from the end of them.

3. Pile in moves - models have to move directly towards the nearest enemy - my interpretation is that they can make their full 6 inch move to get round the back of enemies, therefore enabling models coming in behind to make contact.

4. Pile in moves are affected by difficult terrain, the same as assaulting through cover. I believe I read it somewhere that this isn't the case.

 

Any advice would be great, especially re about ATSKNF.

[Legatus]

1. And they shall know no fear - some players insist that a falling back unit will regroup automatically at the table edge, but I can't see this anywhere in the rules. Surely marines leave the table (never to return) like other troops?

Someone has not been keeping up with his rules. In 3rd Edition there was the 'Last Chance' rule (3rd Edition Rulebook, page 73, "morale" section), stating that a retreating unit touching the board edge gets one last chance to regroup, or else it is removed from play. Space Marines had a natural edge with their ATSKNF rule in that situation. However, that rule did not even make it into 4th Edition (released 2004), where according to the 'Leaving the Battle' rule (4th Edition Rulebook, page 49) any unit touching the board edge was instantly removed. That is the same in 5th Edition (5th Edition Rulebook, page 45, "Fall Back!"), and unfortunately ATSKNF does not help at all in that regard.

 

 

2. I had a player argue vehemently that Drop pod doors are difficult terrain once open. I see that there is a long thread for this already - my understanding is that when the doors are closed they're part of the hull but when they're open they're just doors, otherwise you'd be measuring range from the end of them.

Players are free to agree on how opened Drop Pod doors should be treated, but they ere not given official rules. As far as I see it, doors are a "decorative" element, so cannot be targeted by the enemy and are otherwise disregarded in all aspects as well. If they were counted as part of the Drop Pod then strictly speaking neither enemy nor friendly models would be allowed to be placed on them, as models are nto allowed to move into or through the space occupied by another model. (see 5th Edition Rulebook, page 11)

 

 

3. Pile in moves - models have to move directly towards the nearest enemy - my interpretation is that they can make their full 6 inch move to get round the back of enemies, therefore enabling models coming in behind to make contact.

They can move wherever they want, as long as they can legally move there (no moving through other models, etc.) end up in coherency with their own unit and attempt to contact enemy models from the engaged enemy unit, as per the requirements from page 34.

 

 

4. Pile in moves are affected by difficult terrain, the same as assaulting through cover. I believe I read it somewhere that this isn't the case.

Pile-in moves are not slowed by difficult terrain and do not trigger dangerous terrain tests. See Rulebook, page 40.

[SeattleDV8]

I agree on all points.

Legatus is correct as far as I can see.

[greatcrusade08]

1. And they shall know no fear - some players insist that a falling back unit will regroup automatically at the table edge, but I can't see this anywhere in the rules. Surely marines leave the table (never to return) like other troops?

Nope if they run off the board then thats that, no second chances anymore

 

2. I had a player argue vehemently that Drop pod doors are difficult terrain once open. I see that there is a long thread for this already - my understanding is that when the doors are closed they're part of the hull but when they're open they're just doors, otherwise you'd be measuring range from the end of them.

No this isnt true, when a drop pod lands it does so with its doors closed, this is the 'hull' of the vehicle, and since a vehicle only occupies the area of its hull once the doors open they no longer count.

Someone at my games club did this with 6 pods to a CC daemon army and created a huge area that he couldn cross.. really destroyed the game (shame i wasnt there to slap him with the BRB)

 

Pile in has been covered

[Frosty the Pyro]

Legatus has the right of it, though I think I should reiterate that pile in moves are not (necisarily) toward the nearest enemy, but follow the bullets on pg 34. Thus you must attempt to get into btb with an enemy (who is part of the combat) who is not currently in btb with on of your own guys, if you cant then you must simply atempt to get into btb, then to just be engaged, then to be in coherency.

[Captain Denaro]

Thanks for the advice - in furture I'll ask my opponent to agree that the doors are purely decorative before starting the game, otherwise I'll make a point of laying a screen of drop pods across the front of my army and using the doors as cover ;-0

[greatcrusade08]

just to be clear there is a big difference between 'cover' and difficult terrain... whilst the doors arent terrain, there is an argument saying they provide cover to units behind them (although im inclined to beleive not)