WH vs Bonesword Hive Tyrant

[Shoitaan]

Hey guys

When I play 40k, I usually play with a mate of mine who has Tyranids and Space Marines. As WH I'm yet to even come close to losing to his space marines but the nids...

 

I've usually been able to hold him to a draw but since teh new nid codex and him cracking out a hive tyrant instead of his usual stupid tactic of sending a broodlord my way, I've been pretty shafted. Last game that thing totally decimated my flying nun, a squad of seraphim that made the mistake of hanging around nearby and then later one of my troop choices (This was an 800 point game). Now biggest mistakes I feel I made during that game were:

- Rosarius on the canoness instead of a mantle

- Seraphim with twin hand flamers instead of twin inferno

- Fielding seraphim in the first place instead of my exorcist.

The long and short of it was that I packed templates thinking "nids! Need flame coverage!" and couldn't deal with the armour of the hive tyrant or the carnifex...

 

So in the next game which should be about a 1000 points, I’m going to use teh exorcist instead of the seraphim but I was also thinking of including a shooty Inq squad. 2HB, 1 Plasma or Melta, 2 sages and an Inq with the crossbow. Its points heavy but the table we play on is small enough for them to start firing early on with correct deployment. And of course I’d do InqLord instead of elite for that extra BS point and deployment after the Hive Tyrant.

My thinking is that the shooty squad can shut down his life leeching power (which was used to spectacular effect last game), nail him through the heart easily and then still provide an adequate firebase to take on the wee hordes from a reasonable distance. I only own one exorcist so my alternatives would be fielding two immolators or putting together a retributor squad with 3xhb and a MM. I don’t htink the Immo’s would be THAT useful so I guess its ret firebase vs inq firebase.

So yes, Ret or Inq lord?

 

And what psychic powers?

I appreciate recommendations for different units but the advice would be pretty useless to me as my next game is within a fortnight and I won’t have time or funds to (for example) buy, assemble and paint another exorcist. I’m trying to work within the constraints of what I own so please provide advice within what I said if you can :huh:

 

 

edit:

 

Also, the OTHER mistake I've made is to buy him a Tervigon for his birthday which will be making an apperance next game so I really need long range armour punching :/

[WarriorFish]

Seems like you've already figured it out for yourself :P An Immo or two would help deal with the hordes leaving you with more to tackle the big bugs though, so don't discount it (twin linked heavy flamer moving 12"!).

 

The Rets would also offer some great anti-horde fire power but might be a little too static for you here. An Exorcist is too good to pass up, you'll need that to help take down the MCs. Correct the mistakes you've already figured out and that would go a long way I feel.

 

In a choice between Rets and the Inq I'd probably go for the Rets. In a small game it's easier to use them better by having them as a focal point of your forces and they're more useful than an Inquisitor and his retinue's hodge podge equipment.

[Shoitaan]

Seems like you've already figured it out for yourself :P An Immo or two would help deal with the hordes leaving you with more to tackle the big bugs though, so don't discount it (twin linked heavy flamer moving 12"!).

 

The Rets would also offer some great anti-horde fire power but might be a little too static for you here. An Exorcist is too good to pass up, you'll need that to help take down the MCs. Correct the mistakes you've already figured out and that would go a long way I feel.

 

In a choice between Rets and the Inq I'd probably go for the Rets. In a small game it's easier to use them better by having them as a focal point of your forces and they're more useful than an Inquisitor and his retinue's hodge podge equipment.

 

Yeah I guess having the ret squad would be cheaper and I could use faith powers on them. Would trying to fit in a single penitant engine be too much you think?

[the jeske]

dont play against fast moving MC with a short range army that cant deal with them in hth. there is no way for a WH army to down a tyrant when its played good in 800 pts match.

[Eddie Orlock]

dont play against fast moving MC with a short range army that cant deal with them in hth. there is no way for a WH army to down a tyrant when its played good in 800 pts match.

If it's the only monster they might be able to send a monster hunter retinue after it (three mancatchers and two churgeons) to tie it up for the rest of the game. They're a very task specific solution.

 

No good answers anyway.

[PhallenFoenix]

I think we need more information to give you a better picture on how to handle the bugs.

 

Hive Tyrant - Flying or not is the biggest question. One way or the other, you don't want to assault it, flying non or otherwise.

 

What does he play for shooting? Carnifex's are spectacularily cost inefficient in 5e. What does he run it equipped with? Does he play hive guard, Tyrannofex's, or Zoanthropes?

 

If the answer to those is no, exorcist spam can demolish his army. If you don't present side armor to nids, very little that isn't a Tyrannofex or a Zoanthrope can kill it outside of assault.

 

On a side note, dealing with assault, I've found flying nuns incredibly inefficient against tyranids. Their infantry is either not worth tying up in assault, or so massed that it will kill her even through +2 armor in no time flat. Also, even "weak" tyranid MC's (like Tervigons) can all too easily get lucky and kill her as they all inflict instant death... (but even if you assault a tervigon and live, you're for sure being assaulted by furious charging, rerolling to wound termigaunts next turn... an addition 20 attacks give or take, 8 more wounds... she just gets swarmed down too easily. Frankly, I'd run her bare bones and save the points - BoLS and little else, I'd think.

 

I'd forgo normal sisters tactics of advancing, and go for a fighting retreat, exorcists blazing as you do. Soften up MCs, and finish them with massed bolter fire and melta's from the SoB squads when you can retreat no further. Also, if genestealers aren't outflanking, the tyranids can have serious mobility problems. Stacking a flank against them can be crushingly effective.\

 

Retributers could be good, but frankly, I think just basic sister squads are a better way of maximizing your fire per point. Without MCs to back them up, the little gribblies are squished by Sisters bolter fire pretty efficiently. Just don't let them make any assault where you're outnumbered, and you should be fine - they fight about as well as you do, but with worse armor. Win the assault, kill them with no retreat.

 

Also, do NOT run a penitent engine against Tyranids. I frankly wouldn't recommend running one in any case (ever), but especially not against Tyranids. Fights between walkers/dreadnaughts and MCs really only end one way... 6+2d6 AP is ugly.

 

Long story short, that hive tyrant he bought has some problems. It's horribly expensive in this edition, and become just silly expensive with wings. It also should die to no more than a few exorcist salvo's either way. If it doesn't have wings, you can probably avoid it all game the way you would a c'tan, and that's 200 ish points you're not needing to face. If one of his MC's gets feel no pain, target something else that turn - he has to declare it well ahead of your shooting phase. If he's giving it to the tyrant, blow up the Tervigon and laugh at its inability to get cover to deny him use of the power again. If he gives it to the tervigon, rejoice and kill the tyrant... Tervigons are NOT especially dangerous in assault or shooting - they also usually go sterile within 2 activations of their power... and its not like sisters lack the ability to handle Termigaunts. Massed bolter fire can get messy.

 

I'm sorry, its late and I'm tired, so I'm sure I typed this incredibly sloppy, but as a player of SoB and 'Nids, I'd love to give you any more advice you have.

 

Edit: Because I missed it. If you don't have more than one exorcist, I would recommend the retinue with the plasma. You need a way to get through 3+ armor on the MCs effectively, and Heavy Bolters from retributors just aren't gunna do the trick.

[Shoitaan]

I think we need more information to give you a better picture on how to handle the bugs.

 

Hive Tyrant - Flying or not is the biggest question. One way or the other, you don't want to assault it, flying non or otherwise.

 

What does he play for shooting? Carnifex's are spectacularily cost inefficient in 5e. What does he run it equipped with? Does he play hive guard, Tyrannofex's, or Zoanthropes?

 

If the answer to those is no, exorcist spam can demolish his army. If you don't present side armor to nids, very little that isn't a Tyrannofex or a Zoanthrope can kill it outside of assault.

 

On a side note, dealing with assault, I've found flying nuns incredibly inefficient against tyranids. Their infantry is either not worth tying up in assault, or so massed that it will kill her even through +2 armor in no time flat. Also, even "weak" tyranid MC's (like Tervigons) can all too easily get lucky and kill her as they all inflict instant death... (but even if you assault a tervigon and live, you're for sure being assaulted by furious charging, rerolling to wound termigaunts next turn... an addition 20 attacks give or take, 8 more wounds... she just gets swarmed down too easily. Frankly, I'd run her bare bones and save the points - BoLS and little else, I'd think.

 

I'd forgo normal sisters tactics of advancing, and go for a fighting retreat, exorcists blazing as you do. Soften up MCs, and finish them with massed bolter fire and melta's from the SoB squads when you can retreat no further. Also, if genestealers aren't outflanking, the tyranids can have serious mobility problems. Stacking a flank against them can be crushingly effective.\

 

Retributers could be good, but frankly, I think just basic sister squads are a better way of maximizing your fire per point. Without MCs to back them up, the little gribblies are squished by Sisters bolter fire pretty efficiently. Just don't let them make any assault where you're outnumbered, and you should be fine - they fight about as well as you do, but with worse armor. Win the assault, kill them with no retreat.

 

Also, do NOT run a penitent engine against Tyranids. I frankly wouldn't recommend running one in any case (ever), but especially not against Tyranids. Fights between walkers/dreadnaughts and MCs really only end one way... 6+2d6 AP is ugly.

 

Long story short, that hive tyrant he bought has some problems. It's horribly expensive in this edition, and become just silly expensive with wings. It also should die to no more than a few exorcist salvo's either way. If it doesn't have wings, you can probably avoid it all game the way you would a c'tan, and that's 200 ish points you're not needing to face. If one of his MC's gets feel no pain, target something else that turn - he has to declare it well ahead of your shooting phase. If he's giving it to the tyrant, blow up the Tervigon and laugh at its inability to get cover to deny him use of the power again. If he gives it to the tervigon, rejoice and kill the tyrant... Tervigons are NOT especially dangerous in assault or shooting - they also usually go sterile within 2 activations of their power... and its not like sisters lack the ability to handle Termigaunts. Massed bolter fire can get messy.

 

I'm sorry, its late and I'm tired, so I'm sure I typed this incredibly sloppy, but as a player of SoB and 'Nids, I'd love to give you any more advice you have.

 

Edit: Because I missed it. If you don't have more than one exorcist, I would recommend the retinue with the plasma. You need a way to get through 3+ armor on the MCs effectively, and Heavy Bolters from retributors just aren't gunna do the trick.

 

The Hive Tyrant is non-flying with the leech life psychic power, I think two boneswords and some kind of attack that he described as involving electric bugs (but it was never used). Its statline was fairly high as well but i don’t recall its wargear too much. Unlike me, my friend isn’t organised enough to have a written army list in advance.

He used to bring 3xtyranid warriors for shooting which my nun would devastate in close combat but recently he’s dropped all shooting from his army and is focussing on pure assault. He brought1xbiovore last game but it reverted to its instinctual behaviour and was useless all game.

My main flaw is that I’ve never bothered to field my exorcist against him if he wasn’t playing his marines as I always wanted template coverage but the recent games have been heavy on the armour so I understand now that exorcist is a must :/

I never even considered running a canoness without the full kit... its a smart idea for this situation cause it leaves points for other things. I’d have to try it out for sure! Honestly, the thought to field her just as a source of 2 faith points and nothing else never occurred to me, she’s always been so very useful!

My friend never flanks, ever. He’s not tactically smart – the best he used to do against me was a draw. Its just I haven’t been able to overcome the strength of the new nid codex... plus me not mixing up my game is a fault on my part. Too used to sending out the usual flying nun + rapid fire sisters...

The penitent engine I was considering was to control the hordes. Twin linked heavy flamers are fun and they’re fairly decent at CC but I’m guessing that striking at a lower initiative than the millions of nids it’ll be charging at will result in swift death simply because of the stack of dice being rolled against it.

My friend really doesn’t have any of the new models except for the Trygon I bought him. Poor fellow’s going through a divorce so is keeping his expenditure down for the moment. I’m just being overwhelmed on the table due to the sheer numbers and my own mistakes in list building.

I think if I strip down the canoness I might roll with the Inq squad. It’ll give a higher chance of taking down the HT in the first turn and then using the sages to reroll the plasma gun during subsequent turns will be fun...

[Inquisitor Fox]

Have you considered tasking a Seraphim squad armed with VSS w/ plasma pistol and 2 Sisters w/ TL Inferno pistols to gak the Hive Tyrant via shooting and hit and run? With those weapons all AP 2, that's 2 almost guarenteed hits and 1 probable hit per shooting phase. Granted playing the range game could be iffy, but if you combine that with Exorcist or Retributor fire (4 multimeltas is worth considering against the rapid closing bugs.. I might have to try that myself) it might make a difference.

[Shoitaan]

My six girl sera squad got decimated last time. Granted it wasn't the same as what you suggested, the VSS did have plasma and evisc but the sera's were packing flamers. I only got one round of shooting in before the creature was in combat and then after quickly dispatching my Nun, he came after them casting his power beforehand (and taking 2 of them out before he even got to melee!). I don't think I want to be that near him again, even if it means giving up the oh-so handy inferno pistols :huh:

[Obliterator]

As for the Leech Essence psychic power, always remember your Sisters have the Shield of Faith special rule. It might be stating the obvious, but I find it's easy to forget you still have a 5+ protection against any psychic powers which target your SoBs or include them into their area of effect. You could also take a cheap Inquisitor Lord wih a Psychic Hood, but you'll have to cope with the Shadow in the Warp when you're too close to the big bad things.

 

Against Tyranids my Retributors have always been fairly effective. 8 Sisters (4 with Heavy Bolters) send a decent amount of shots towards the 'nids, and have a range that can reach out and touch someone from the start. Team them up with 2 Exorcists and try to take them from a range. Sure beats taking on 'nids in close combat...

 

If you want to include an Inquisitor, I'd take the Witchhunters Close Combat setup, with 3 mancatchers (reduced attacks), some Crusaders (inv. saves), 2 Chirurgeons (ignore 1 MC attack/turn) and a couple of cheap Familiars (extra wounds). I recently started using him together with a Priest, and with a master-crafted force-weapon on the Inquisitor (gets real expensive real fast though). Rerolling all hits on the charge, and 1 hit when charged increase the odds of you hitting something with that forceweapon, potentially killing your target outright. Of course, this will not be easy with a T6 adversary, I usually face T4 or T5... You can also just give him some cheap gear and just use the unit to bog down the large nasties until you took care of the other 'nids.

 

Against Tyranids, I wouldn't bother with taking Psychic powers, mainly because of the Shadow in the Warp rule. Then again, my ability to roll 1's is legendary...

[andrewm9]

If he only has one MC at 1000 points, I know that one of my BS squads is likely to take it down once its within rapid fire range. Its all about Divine Guidance as every wound will no save. I fit my squads with 8 bolters, a meltagun, and heavy flamer and they ride in a Repressor. Thats usually enough to inflict 3 woudns with no save allowed and possibly force one or 2 more. At that point he's only got 1 wound left on the Tyrant. A second squad will ensure it or you can do it over successive turns if you feel able.

[Shoitaan]

Well I got smashed again but at least I took down that hive tyrant.

It was a 1000 point game (capture and control) and I specifically brought options that I thought would help me take out the armour but due to a combination of bad rolling and all the nid “armour” being multi-wound, I didn’t fare too well.

The inquisitioner put 3 wounds on the hive tyrant in the first round of shooting from his crossbow and the plasma gun but sadly I lost the plasma cannon early on the second turn to a dead-on shot from the biovore. It normally never shoots on target or gets kills so this was very unlucky for me :)

The heavy bolters essentially did nothing. The STR 5 was no good against the hive tyrant or the trygon I took at a shot at later. I can’t recall if I took a shot at the ravener’s but whatever I did, the heavy bolters probably successfully inflicted only 1 wound the whole game. Maybe I should go 2xMulti-melta and 1xPlasma cannon next time? Its expensive but between the two sages and the psy-tracker, surely I’d have many successful hits (and its not hard to wound with a melta...)

I got grossly unlucky and the Trygon Prime deepstriked on turn two right on top of a troop choice and they were food not too long after. My exorcist only managed to put 2 wounds on him and 2 wounds on the carnifex. I can’t remember what it did in its third turn but it died soon after from the carnifex charge. I think I used the last round of shooting with the exorcist to take down the hive tyrant who was still on 1 point and coming right at me (and with no plasma at this stage, I was out of options).

One immolator was deployed exceedingly well and performed stellar duties for the order wiping out an entire troop choice by the end of the game. The other immolator was deployed and moved very VERY poorly and was savaged to death by the carnifex before killing only one gaunt.

The canoness dispatched a ravenor squad herself and then took out many a gaunt herself but not enough to wipe out his chances. By the end of the game I had my nun and one immolator left and she died bravely losing her last wound after being besieged by the surviving gaunts, 2 revenors and a carnifex.

The troop choices suffered from being unlucky with that Trygon. And the other troop choice got blitzed by the Tyrant. Both of these were my fault. I should not have moved them after deployment. I brought my end early... NEVER AGAIN!!

But yes, lessons learnt

- Don’t bother moving off the start position when facing an almost complete assault army

- Inquisitioners with 2 sages will never miss (BS 6) and its a damn shame the crossbow won’t fire more times

- Remember you spent 20points on scourging so you actually ****ing use it and not remember he had it after he’s already in combat being mauled by ravenors that you could have zapped the turn before

- Exorcists can be crap when your rolling is crap

- I hate Tyranids

- I want a new codex...

 

 

+++++++

My Army

Full flying nun with Mantle instead of rosarius

Inq Lord, scourging, crossbow, psy-tracker, hood

Sagex2

2xHB

1xPlasma

Sister Squadx2 (see Below)

VSS+Plasma+Evisc

Sister + HF

Sister + F

7x Sisters + bolters

2xImmolator

1xExorcist

His list

Hive Tyrant with 4xScything Talons – pretty standard, no upgrades AFAIK

2xTermagaunt broods – can’t remember the number, I think like 20 or 30 each.

2x3 man Ravenor squads

1x Trygon Prime

1xBiovore

1xCarnifex

+++++++++++++++

 

Edit:

Do Trygons count as psykers? He said that it didn't but at the same time, it had various psychic powers/weird abilities?

 

And also, shield of faith to shut down psychic powers after I screw up my hood rolling is awesome and hilarious. He didn't know SoB could do that... of all the targets he could pick, he chose an Adeptus unit... unfortunately he got payback during the subsequent assault :(

[a1elbow]

I'd drop some of the points you invested in charcters. A jump pack Cannoness and an Inq Lord seems like they are only going to be able to do so much. Plus, all the anti-psker stuff is kind of pointless when he only takes one (the prime isn't). I'd also switch the flamers in the squads to meltaguns. A heavy flamer is more than enough to take out bulk squads like gaunts, the meltagun will give the squad something that might actually be able to hurt a Tyranid Big. And maybe throw in Eviscerators on all the squad vets.

 

That is a nasty list, but with what he took I have to assume he has little to no shooting except the Biovore, he's up against 1000 points as it is. I'd probably just go one Immolator, because unless you upgraded to the TL multi, he only has two squads worth templating and the squads heavy flamers will do some of that work.

 

Would you feel bad taking two Exorcist at 1000? Because his list was 70%+ MC, so he obviously wasn't worried about playing a friendly list.

[Obliterator]

Do Trygons count as psykers? He said that it didn't but at the same time, it had various psychic powers/weird abilities?

He was right: Trygons don't count as psyckers. The bio-electric pulse and containment spines are shooting attacks, not psychic powers.

 

I'd second a1elbow about taking 2 Exorcists at 1000 points. Sure you have those games where you hardly manage to shoot anything, but most of the time they're well worth it. I'd even drop the Inquisitor for it, at 1000 points I typically use only 1 HQ anyway. Although with all these MCs, I'd consider dropping the Canoness and taking a mancatcher-Inquisitor, but it's a very task-oriented unit, so not flexible at all.

[PhallenFoenix]

Guys, read the OP. He only has one Exorcist, and he's not buying new stuff.

 

I did warn you about the utter inability for heavy bolters to matter against 'Nids :P

 

I would definately recommend dropping them from the retinue. Multi melta's would be much better.

 

Also, that list seems pretty heavy on deep striking. With two mystics, this shouldn't have been A problem... did you park your inquisitor next to the Exorcist? You can have the exorcist take the free shots at a deep striking unit.

 

Also, did you stack a flank? Ravenors don't deep strike like drop pods, so the more dense you make your deployment zone, the more trouble they have.

 

With some minor alterations, that list should be able to win. Your tactics just need some minor adjustment -

 

1) Like I said above, stack a flank. Choose to deploy second if possible, then deploy as far away from the hive tyrant as possible.

 

2) Keep the Inquisitor with mystics next to your exorcist, and keep it as far away from the enemy as possible - in a corner, perhaps. Have it take the shots at anything that deep strikes in, especially that Trygon Prime.

 

3) From your report above, I noticed you had put 2 or 3 wounds on all the MCs, but didn't kill any. Thats a common problem with people who aren't very used to fighting Tyranids. Fire Discipline is key - Throw the kitchen sink at a target until its dead.

 

4) Note that his list is VERY low on synapse, especially if the Trygon Prime is deep striking. This means his army needs to stick close together. Handle units in the proper order, and you'll be fine.

 

Specific Tactics - Hive Tyrant/Carnifex - You didn't state if the carnifex has a gun. One way or the other, if these two are not deployed very close to each other. choose one to avoid, and one to kill. Don't take shots at both. If they're together, Take out the Hive Tyrant - its his only Synapse, and taking it out can slow his army to a crawl.

 

Trygon prime - Public Enemy number one. When it deep strikes in, THROW THE KITCHEN SINK AT IT. Every unit in your army, from bolters up to exorcists, should focus on blowing the crap out of it. The goal is to kill it in a single round of shooting, and that should be quite achievable. Just make sure not to present it with the rear armor of your Exorcist for its shooting. Remember to take the mystic shots at it with your exorcist.

 

Biovore - As you noted, it very rarely kills anything. I'd ignore it unless you have a unit in range with nothing else to do.

 

The Termigaunt mobs - He's light on Synapse, and once the Synapse beasties are dead, Gaunts fall over. If the immolators have flamers, I'd direct them at these squads. Don't advance to do so - wait for them to come to you, then combine it with a battle sister squad. That should be enough to force a moral check, and they almost certainly WILL fall back without synapse.

 

Ravenors - hopefully, you're deployed tightly enough that they can't deep strike in your midst. If all of them come in the same turn as the Trygon, you might have a problem. Even in that situation, kill the Trygon before them. Then focus on them one unit at a time with everything you can until they're dead. They don't have power weapons, so you can expect a unit of Sisters to hold up against them for a little bit. Expect them to kill something, then punish them for it.

 

Alterations to your list -

 

Drop the heavy bolters for Melta's

 

Drop the heavy flamers for Melta's

 

As i mentioned above, I would REALLY advise against taking a flying nun, staple though she may be. She just doesn't do too much against nids. For that matter, faith points don't do TOO much, either... most of your weapons are either AP1 or very unlikely the wound, with little middle ground. You have to take a Sororitas heroine, but on her merits for this matchup, I just don't think she stacks up. I'd give her a plasma pistol and stick her with a squad, nothing else.

 

Good luck.

[Obliterator]

For that matter, faith points don't do TOO much, either... most of your weapons are either AP1 or very unlikely the wound, with little middle ground.

Very sound advice, PhallenFoenix, but I think you're underestimating Faith against 'nids. I agree that there is hardly any use for Divine Guidance, but when the 'nids reach you and get you stuck in CC, there are at least 3 acts that can help you:

- 3++ saves against MCs (granted, it only helps with rather small squads)

- +2 initiative against the termagaunts means your basic Sisters strike first

- +2 strength means you at least have a fighting chance

 

While I'm the first to say Sisters don't belong in CC, you often have little choice against armies like tyranids and the likes.

[WAR]

I have a question about the Bolter/crossbow.....I know it is consider a combi weapon but it is not listed in its specific rules that it is a combi weapon....so does that not mean it can fire the crossbow bolts more than once?

[Obliterator]

I have a question about the Bolter/crossbow.....I know it is consider a combi weapon but it is not listed in its specific rules that it is a combi weapon....so does that not mean it can fire the crossbow bolts more than once?

You can fire the bolter any number of times, but the 'other' weapon on a combi-weapon may only be fired once each battle. It's stated in the Witchhunter codex under combi-weapons on p.21. The bolter-stake crossbow is a specific combi-weapon, so the stake may only be fired once in the battle.

[PhallenFoenix]

For that matter, faith points don't do TOO much, either... most of your weapons are either AP1 or very unlikely the wound, with little middle ground.

Very sound advice, PhallenFoenix, but I think you're underestimating Faith against 'nids. I agree that there is hardly any use for Divine Guidance, but when the 'nids reach you and get you stuck in CC, there are at least 3 acts that can help you:

- 3++ saves against MCs (granted, it only helps with rather small squads)

- +2 initiative against the termagaunts means your basic Sisters strike first

- +2 strength means you at least have a fighting chance

 

While I'm the first to say Sisters don't belong in CC, you often have little choice against armies like tyranids and the likes.

 

I haven't failed to consider those, but realistically, only +2 Initiative matters.

 

+2 Strength will only really matter when your fighting an MC, and then, lets face it... your not winning that fight. You'll be lucky to even wound it.

 

3++ saves are actually counterproductive, in my opinion. First, they are unlikely to go off - not something you want to bank a faithpoint on here. Second, I'd actually rather the squad lost the combat quickly, and the beasty was available to shoot again on my next turn.

 

+2 Init lets you go first against more or less anything but genestealers. Probably 70-80% of my faith points would go towards that, or possibly fearless if biovore hits are getting lucky. Being pinned sucks.

[Shoitaan]

Thanks all for the valuable feedback!

 

Is sending a ccInq against something like a Hive Tyrant wise? Even with mancatchers and force weapons, managing to get a wound past that weapon skill and toughness is really hard. While at the same time, even with the penalties I’d give him, I think the tyrant would have a really easy chance to brain me. That’s why I’m leaning towards more shootier options.

 

Does anyone have reasonable success with a CC Inq vs a melee MC?

 

@PhallenFoenix

My Inq wasn’t near the exorcist no, but at the same time, he was a WH inq not a DH one so he didn’t have mystics with him. I’ll download the GW PDF of the daemonhunters codex and I’ll have a look to see what they can do as I’m fairly unfamiliar with them. Those free shots may have helped me take down the ravenors/Trygon... will investigate!

 

I’m not entirely sure I understand the stacked flank tactic. Do you just mean to concentrate deployment in one quarter of the table?

Your tips are interesting and show how carelessly I was playing. I actually deployed my Inq directly infront of the HT so I’d start shooting at it early on. I really do need to start thinking more defensively >_>

 

I did consider focus firing but I changed targets as things seemed dangerous. This would likely be my inexperience as this would have been my 7th or 8th game with my army. I’ll remember to neutralise whatever I shoot at before moving on next time.

The synapses was hurting me big time. That trygon prime had an extended range for its synapses so it was giving everything LD10. Very very annoying. I’ll definitely focus fire next time.

 

The carni was melee. I don’t know its upgrades too much but all it did was charge my vehicles to make them go boom (and later my canoness). It was on one wound so for some reason I stopped paying attention to it. My fault >_>

 

The trygon primes shooting doesn’t worry me too much because even with assault 12, that attack scored 0 wounds the entire game. Mind you, it didn’t have a chance to shoot at any armour 10’s so I’m certainly not going to get cocky.

An unfortunate problem I had was that the ravenors and the Trygon appeared at the same turn. But sadly what I chose to do was shoot at the ravenors with my canoness (killed one with the inferno pistol – instant death – and dispatched the rest in melee), shot at the HT with the Inq even though the plasma was dead at this point and shot at the Trygon with one volley from the Exorcist scoring 2/6 wounds. As you noted, focussed fire would have done the trick to any one of these beasties 

 

Would dropping the flying nun for an immolator with MM’s be worth it or should I spend those points on more bodies?

And the only thing i use faith against nids for is the inv save and +2STR (on the cannoness sometimes). Yet to try giving +2INI... might give that a go. I dont’ bother with the morale restoring one because typically i find that with the book of St Lucius, I never fail morale tests anyway :/

My next game probably won’t be for a while yet so it gives me time to finish painting what I have and then consider more options. Although I think I may have to consider getting another exorcist once my tax return comes in :)

[PhallenFoenix]

@PhallenFoenix

My Inq wasn’t near the exorcist no, but at the same time, he was a WH inq not a DH one so he didn’t have mystics with him. I’ll download the GW PDF of the daemonhunters codex and I’ll have a look to see what they can do as I’m fairly unfamiliar with them. Those free shots may have helped me take down the ravenors/Trygon... will investigate!

My appologies, I thought you said you were playing mystics, so I assumed it was a DH inquisitor. Yes, I would highly recommend playing something like a DH Inquisitor Lord 2 Mystics 1 Sage 3 Gun Servitors 3 Familiar retinue. The free shots are very, VERY nice against nasty things coming in from DS. If a DH inquisitor is out of the question for you (WH or go home), the manhunter CC retinue isn't a bad idea. I've never tried it personally, but I have heard good results.

 

I’m not entirely sure I understand the stacked flank tactic. Do you just mean to concentrate deployment in one quarter of the table?

 

That's the basic idea. the more specific idea is to deploy close to the more mobile aspects of the enemy army and away from the slower, tougher aspects of the army. It will make him come to you in more bite sized chunks. This tactic doesn't always work, but deploying second against MC nids, it usually works pretty well.

 

Your tips are interesting and show how carelessly I was playing. I actually deployed my Inq directly infront of the HT so I’d start shooting at it early on. I really do need to start thinking more defensively >_>

 

It's rough, I know. My first instinct with sisters is move forward, get everything in the 12" range, and DG everything until it dies. Sadly, an abundance of T6 throws a wrench in that plan, both because they're unlike to die in a single round of shooting, and b/c if they don't, they can lock you in an assault you practically can't win. Against an army like this, defensive is the order of the day, unless your reasonable sure you can kill everything in assault range in a blaze of bolter fire.

 

I did consider focus firing but I changed targets as things seemed dangerous. This would likely be my inexperience as this would have been my 7th or 8th game with my army. I’ll remember to neutralise whatever I shoot at before moving on next time.

The synapses was hurting me big time. That trygon prime had an extended range for its synapses so it was giving everything LD10. Very very annoying. I’ll definitely focus fire next time.

The carni was melee. I don’t know its upgrades too much but all it did was charge my vehicles to make them go boom (and later my canoness). It was on one wound so for some reason I stopped paying attention to it. My fault >_>

 

You seem aware of the problem, which is very good. Fire discipline is the key. Kill something dead, and move on.

 

The trygon primes shooting doesn’t worry me too much because even with assault 12, that attack scored 0 wounds the entire game. Mind you, it didn’t have a chance to shoot at any armour 10’s so I’m certainly not going to get cocky.

An unfortunate problem I had was that the ravenors and the Trygon appeared at the same turn. But sadly what I chose to do was shoot at the ravenors with my canoness (killed one with the inferno pistol – instant death – and dispatched the rest in melee), shot at the HT with the Inq even though the plasma was dead at this point and shot at the Trygon with one volley from the Exorcist scoring 2/6 wounds. As you noted, focussed fire would have done the trick to any one of these beasties 

The reserves arriving on the same turn is unfortunate, but it will happen.

 

An idea - I may actually not be giving the flying nun quite her due credit (I know, I know, I shouldn't have doubted her). Upon reflection, the one unit in his army she does seem good against is Ravenors. An Eviscerator + 2 strength means instant death for them, they don't have quite the horde of attacks to push through a 2+ save (or 2++ if they have rending claws) and they don't cause instant death. If you want to keep the cannoness (and god knows I can't blame you if you do) the ravenons seem like a good target for her.

Would dropping the flying nun for an immolator with MM’s be worth it or should I spend those points on more bodies?

Not enough firepower for the points, I think... not when his tanks have wounds. I'd stick with the nun or more bodies

And the only thing i use faith against nids for is the inv save and +2STR (on the cannoness sometimes). Yet to try giving +2INI... might give that a go.

It's only useful against the gaunts. You're using your faith points right, just don't forget about +2I when those gaunt swarms you've been ignoring in favor of the MC's hit home.

My next game probably won’t be for a while yet so it gives me time to finish painting what I have and then consider more options. Although I think I may have to consider getting another exorcist once my tax return comes in :cuss

 

I would highly recommend one, frankly. The long range AP1 firepower of the exorcist is just a staple. The forgeworld model is actually cheaper than the GW one... something to consider.

 

Good luck!