Daemon/Witch Hunter Hoods

[Morticon]

Heres an interesting one for you guys.

 

The wording is such:

 

""If the witch hunter beats the opposing model's score then the psychic power is nullified and may not be used that turn."

 

Now, for players that use Mephy, or Eldrad or DPs etc. that have 2 chances of casting a single power, it could potentially mean they lose that second chance according to a certain reading of that wargear.

 

Do you think this is an accurate reading of the rules?

 

Im undecided on this.

 

In short, if a DH/WH hood blocks mephy from trying "wings" or a Tzeentch DP from Warp Time, can they try it again?

[chromedog]

Yes, but they open themselves up for another attempt at nullifying it.

 

By another hood (at least the DH ones, as only one may be used per power).

[Cedric]

RAW would be no.

 

"...the psychic power is nullified and may not be used that turn."

 

The hood halts the entire ability to use that single psychic power for the entire turn.

It doesn't prevent just that one use.

[Morticon]

Thats what I thought it may be..but..im not sure.

 

Could it not be argued that its the specific instance of that power?

 

Ie: that attempt as opposed to the ability to cast that power?

 

 

Or am i looking for a loophole to prevent it?

[Cedric]

Of course you could argue, but you'd have to come up with a decent argument in order to do so.

Given the wording "...may not be used that turn.", it's pretty definite.

[JamesI]

I have to agree with Cedric. RAW seems to disallow further attempts.

[ShinyRhino]

Definitely a tricky one.

Pure RAW, you also open yourself up to the idea that if the hood causes Warptime (or any other power) to be nullified for the whole turn for ONE model, it's nullified for ALL models. Pure RAW, if you nullify Power X for the remainder of the turn, all instances of Power X are nullified, not just that single model's attempts.

 

Where does it end?

[Isiah]

Definitely a tricky one.

Pure RAW, you also open yourself up to the idea that if the hood causes Warptime (or any other power) to be nullified for the whole turn for ONE model, it's nullified for ALL models. Pure RAW, if you nullify Power X for the remainder of the turn, all instances of Power X are nullified, not just that single model's attempts.

 

That's all instances of Power X being nullified against the psyker that attempted to use it. I don't see how that would stretch to another psyker trying to use the same power.

 

The hood rules are clearly (when read in full) directed against one psychic power attempt at a time.

 

I'm not even convinced it stretches to auto-stopping a second attempt at the same power by the same psyker anyway. It seems to me every attempt is a clean slate, providing a psychic test must be made, to be nullified (or not).

 

The result line:

"If the witch hunter beats the opposing model's score then the psychic power is nullified and may not be used that turn."

 

is being taken out of context to the whole hood useage rules as a whole. Note that wording is little different to that in the Codex SM:

"If the Space Marine Librarian beats the opposing model's score then the psychic power is nullified and does not take effect that turn."

 

Cheers

I

[Grey Mage]

I would interpret it that the power has been nullified for the turn, but not in subsequent turns.

 

IE- you tried to use the power... I stopped you. However, to make sure that no one thinks your down for the whole game, Ill put in a phrase that makes sure its just for this turn. This will confuse future generations, but everyone will figure it out thats playing now.

 

*spreads hands* just how I see it anyways.

[Myxx]

We always play it that the power is nullified for the entire turn. If a character has an ability to use a second power, it must be a different power than was already nullified by the hood.

[Grey Mage]

We always play it that the power is nullified for the entire turn. If a character has an ability to use a second power, it must be a different power than was already nullified by the hood.

And those that specificly have the option to use it again?

[Myxx]

Nullified till the end of the turn. Try again the next turn.

[DevianID]

Yeah I always figured the bigger question was if a second psyker with the same power could try to cast. For example, if you stop one lash of submission, does the next model's lash of submission get a chance to cast, or is the power 'lash of submission' no longer usable by any model on the field.

 

To me the 'psychic power' in question simply means the power that was just cast, not a class of power with a proper name. Thus, if a model could cast the same power again, it could, because the hood only stops the most recent power, not the entire class of powers.

[Grey Mage]

I have to agree with DevianID on this one... it just doesnt make sense to me otherwise.

[JamesI]

I have to agree with DevianID on this one... it just doesnt make sense to me otherwise.

I think that's how it should be, but by RAW I don't think that's what it says.

[Aidoneus]

Why do you assume that Model X's Lash of Submission is the same (i.e. is numerically identical) as Model Y's Lash of Submission?

 

My point is that the hood nullifies one psychic power, not every psychic power with the same name. Think of it like any other piece of Wargear. Models X and Y can each have a Bolt Pistol, but you would hardly consider them to be the same firearm! Why would it be any different with psychic upgrades?

 

 

Edit: Another question to consider: If someone asks you how many Lashes you have in your army, and you have two models that each have Lash of Submission, would you honestly say "One," rather than "Two"? Of course not. I think this makes it pretty clear that they are distinct powers, albeit of the same type.