Best Razorback load out?

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Which Razorback turret weapon genrally works well for wolves?

It will be bought for one of my 2 long fang packs, one has 5 guys, 2 plasma cannons, 2 missile launchers, and the other has 5 guys, 2 heavy bolters, 2 lascannons.

So which Razorback would be best to compliment them, I have models for twin linked heavy bolters and twin linked lascannons, but both the assault cannon and lascannon with twinlinked plasma gun ones I would be happy to try and convert (and in the latters case try and get the turret on ebay), though I am discounting the heavy flamer option, it is 65pts with heavy flamers and for that I could get a land Speeder with heavy bolter and a heavy flamer. Should I even use razorbacks with my wolves or just use another land speeder to go with the typhoon and HF,HBtornado ones I run at the moment(ie if I go for the Assault Cannon Razorback, should I just pay 15pts extra to get the land speeder instead?)

[Karack Blackstone]

It's all about options. The TLLC is great for tank hunting, but not too great on much else. LC + TLPG is nice to pop troops that go after the LF's but if you miss on the LC, that's it.

 

It's really just coming down to the hurt you want to put on something and what you need considering the rest of your force. If you lack major Anti-Tank firepower, pick up a LC variant. If you need more medium range hurt, go with the TLAC as that gives you up to four solid shots and the option to rend.

[Matt D]

Which Razorback turret weapon genrally works well for wolves?

It will be bought for one of my 2 long fang packs, one has 5 guys, 2 plasma cannons, 2 missile launchers, and the other has 5 guys, 2 heavy bolters, 2 lascannons.

So which Razorback would be best to compliment them, I have models for twin linked heavy bolters and twin linked lascannons, but both the assault cannon and lascannon with twinlinked plasma gun ones I would be happy to try and convert (and in the latters case try and get the turret on ebay), though I am discounting the heavy flamer option, it is 65pts with heavy flamers and for that I could get a land Speeder with heavy bolter and a heavy flamer. Should I even use razorbacks with my wolves or just use another land speeder to go with the typhoon and HF,HBtornado ones I run at the moment(ie if I go for the Assault Cannon Razorback, should I just pay 15pts extra to get the land speeder instead?)

is there a reason for this?the plas is 36" range ML is 48". bolters are 36" and las is 48". why not put the plas with the bolters in a LC+plas razor and ML's with the las in a TL las razor. this way everything has propper distance to the enemy. just a thought.

[JMac]

I'm gonna have to agree with Karack. What do you need more in your specific army list? That's what it comes down to. If you are worried about WYSIWYG with the model, try magnetizing the turret for maximum options.

[JamesI]

I'm a big fan of twin-linked lascannons (though cheap heavy bolters are cool too). Not a fan of the lascannon/twin linked plasmagun setup as you can't move and fire both.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

The mixing of weapon ranges is a hangover from the last codex, I had to pay the price of 2 long fangs for the pack leader, so I was going to use the control fire to maximum effect, plus it means if one pack gets destroyed then i still have something in the other pack to deal with heavy armour.

The rest of my list contains:

Land speeder Typhoon with missile launchers and heavy bolter

Land speeder with heavy flamer and heavy bolter

the long fang packs

a dreadnought with heavy flamer and Assualt cannon, wolf tooth necklace and extra armour

2 grey hunter packs with 10, power weapon, 1 has 2 meltaguns, the other has 2 plasma guns

5 wolf guard, 3 in terminator armour with stormbolters and 2 power fists, a chainfist and a cyclone missile launcher, 1 in PA with a pair of wolf claws, 1 in PA with Thunder hammer and storm shield, the CML termi goes in a long fang pack, 2 in PA go to the grey hunters and the other 2 in terminator armour go throughing them selves against things like Ork kans

wolf priest with wolf tooth necklace.

Rune priest in terminator armour (Living Lightning, Murderous hurricane) chooser of the slain.

Lone wolf in terminator armour, thunder hammer and storm shield- I am thinking of droping this guy for the razorback.

Looking at it, I think the Twin linked Assault cannons may be the way to go.

[Karack Blackstone]

Your list seems to have a lot of tricks but not enough basic troops, although if it's KP mission that makes sense. Otherwise yea, with the firepower you currently have, TLAC may be the best bang for your buck. Your Lone Wolf could prove useful to the WG that have to go forth as a shield, or him shielding them, but the two WG terms with loco-motive battle tactics may net you some extra points if you can do without them.

[Bikeninja]

I have been using the Las/TLPlasma since third edition. Those and the Assault Cannons are my two favorites and very effective. Can't go wrong with either of those or a combination of them. My brother plays a Razorback list with his Imperial Fists. Nothing but Assault Cannons. He has had great success with them.

 

Just my two cents...

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

The 2 wolf Guard are there because I need 5 to get a CML, (I miss when only 3 where needed) and if I put every one in a pack, I would still have a wolf guard going around on his own, and my last few games the lone wolf has done nothing apart from shaking a land raider redeemer and getting cut down by a BA captain with paired lightning claws, so I was thinking of replacing him.

[Blitzkreig]

Assault Cannon, I love those things.

[SeanyPrawny]

I always get put off by 24" range, its the reason I never take vindicators. However it is still a long range given most arcs of fire anyway so I'm very tempted by the assault cannons now myself. They're mean troop killers and have the chance of taking out armour 14. Given I normally run like 5 TLLC's this might very well be a better option for me.

[Blitzkreig]

What is the point in playing Space Wolves if you aren't going for my name sake and revving the hell out of your engines to get as close as possible as fast as possible? Assault Cannons, Plasma Guns, Demolisher Cannons and other 24" range weapons are great because they force you into an aggresive playstyle and to me, defensive play is abhorent.

[Stormbrow II]

What is the point in playing Space Wolves if you aren't going for my name sake and revving the hell out of your engines to get as close as possible as fast as possible? Assault Cannons, Plasma Guns, Demolisher Cannons and other 24" range weapons are great because they force you into an aggresive playstyle and to me, defensive play is abhorent.

Because its on an AV 11 platform that's housing a scoring unit that I *don't* want footslogging across the battlefield?

 

Assault Cannon, I love those things.

Debateable. I find them unreliable at best - 6's to pen and then you get an extra dice that may or may not do something? No thanks. There's too many variables.

 

I've always considered it to be between the TLLC and LC/PG variants. If you are running Razorspam i.e. 4+ Razorbacks I'd recommend the LC/PG as they don't need the increased accuracy because there's so many of them and they get the extra AP2 shots when stuff starts to get close. If you run 3 or less I'd say stick with the TLLC so that you have reliable anti-tank.

 

The Asscan is best left for the BA's as they can use its fast movement to get into side armour much easier than we can and shoot at the typically more vulnerable flanks of enemy vehicles.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I am now thinking of perhaps taking a small unit of Grey hunter instead of the Razorback, which is better on a grey hunter, a power fist or a power weapon? they will have a wolf guard in Terminator armour with Stormbolter and Chainfist attached to them, though in bigger games I wil give them a Razor back, then the Wolf guard will be in power armour with power fist and combi weapon, which Razor back turret would best support this, (I am not to keen on the TL lascannons, I don't know why, the Assualt cannon is tempting), and would it be worth dropping perhaps one of the land speeders to take the Razorback with the small grey hunter pack in the 1500pts list above?

[KiltedMarine]

For GHs, I tend to mix and match- if the WGPL has a PF, then the GH should carry the power weapon, and vice versa. That gives you options either way. Doubling up on PFs is great, right up until the point you go up against a BA list or Genestealers or [insert high Initiative value foe's name here]. Doubling up on PWs is also great right up until that Carnifex gets through or the Killa Kans assault you and you've got nothing you can use to hit back.

 

So, yeah- one of each is the answer, if you're using a pack leader. If not, then pick whichever one fits the role you want the squad to play.

 

With the example you give, my own tendency would be to mount the heavy bolters on the Razor ('cause they're cheap and hit pretty hard), and have the GH squad carry the power weapon, since the pack leader has the 'fist. Alternatively, you could go with the heavy flamer option for the maximum amount of short-range suffering.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

It's all about options. The TLLC is great for tank hunting, but not too great on much else. LC + TLPG is nice to pop troops that go after the LF's but if you miss on the LC, that's it.

 

It's really just coming down to the hurt you want to put on something and what you need considering the rest of your force. If you lack major Anti-Tank firepower, pick up a LC variant. If you need more medium range hurt, go with the TLAC as that gives you up to four solid shots and the option to rend.

 

As a BT player, I love tlLC. Hitting 8/9 times is pretty sweet.

 

LC+Pg allows for a less accurate shot. 4/6

Within 24" you get an extra anti-TEq shot that hits 8/9 times. Nice.

Within 12", you get 3 anti-TEq shots. That is vicious.

 

Of course you pay for those extra shots by sacrificing mobility. You have to weigh that up.

I love moving 6" each turn with my tlLC. If you don't find you move yours around, don't worry about it.

 

Having two guns means it takes two weapon destroyed results to disarm your Razor. Pretty good.

 

Assault Cannons. They lose delicious range, making them less useful to camp by your Long Fangs. Being able to hit someone from T1 is not to be underestimated.

Assault Cannons are more deadly against AV than LCs and can also take out Infantry.

If you are not using the Razor as a Sniper, the AC is a good choice. A very good choice.

 

These are not twin-linked, but you'll catch my drift, eh?

 

AC v AV 10: 4/6 x 2/6 x 2/6 x 4 = 64/216. 100/216 x 64 = 29.63%

AC v AV 11: 4/6 x 1/6 x 2/6 x 4 = 32/216. 100/216 x 32 = 14.81%

AC v AV 12: 4/6 x 1/6 x 3/3 x 2/6 x 4 = 96/648. 100/648 x 96 = 14.81%

AC v AV 13: 4/6 x 1/6 x 2/3 x 2/6 x 4 = 64/648. 100/648 x 64 = 9.88%

AC v AV 14: 4/6 x 1/6 x 1/3 x 2/6 x 4 = 32/648. 100/648 x 32 = 4.94%

 

Laser canon------------18,52---14,81---11,11---7,41---3,70

 

EDIT: My numbers for the AC are wrong!

I redid them. I have learnt that you get diminishing returns, and had not taken that into account when I did those numbers a while a go. I just grabbed them and only realised after the event.

Sorry!

 

Here are the real numbers in % per volley:

 

tl LC: 24.69 19.75 14.81 9.88 4.94

...LC: 18.52 14.81 11.11 7.41 3.7

 

ML: 14.81 11.11 7.41 3.7 0

 

tl Auto C: 27.43 18.78 9.63 0 0

...Auto C: 20.99 14.27 7.27 0 0

 

tl Assault C: 34.03 18.34 18.34 12.53 6.42

...Assault C: 26.50 14.01 14.01 9.52 4.85

[Karack Blackstone]

It's all about options. The TLLC is great for tank hunting, but not too great on much else. LC + TLPG is nice to pop troops that go after the LF's but if you miss on the LC, that's it.

 

It's really just coming down to the hurt you want to put on something and what you need considering the rest of your force. If you lack major Anti-Tank firepower, pick up a LC variant. If you need more medium range hurt, go with the TLAC as that gives you up to four solid shots and the option to rend.

 

As a BT player, I love tlLC. Hitting 8/9 times is pretty sweet.

 

LC+Pg allows for a less accurate shot. 4/6

Within 24" you get an extra anti-TEq shot that hits 8/9 times. Nice.

Within 12", you get 3 anti-TEq shots. That is vicious.

 

Of course you pay for those extra shots by sacrificing mobility. You have to weigh that up.

I love moving 6" each turn with my tlLC. If you don't find you move yours around, don't worry about it.

 

Having two guns means it takes two weapon destroyed results to disarm your Razor. Pretty good.

 

Assault Cannons. They lose delicious range, making them less useful to camp by your Long Fangs. Being able to hit someone from T1 is not to be underestimated.

Assault Cannons are more deadly against AV than LCs and can also take out Infantry.

If you are not using the Razor as a Sniper, the AC is a good choice. A very good choice.

 

These are not twin-linked, but you'll catch my drift, eh?

 

AC v AV 10: 4/6 x 2/6 x 2/6 x 4 = 64/216. 100/216 x 64 = 29.63%

AC v AV 11: 4/6 x 1/6 x 2/6 x 4 = 32/216. 100/216 x 32 = 14.81%

AC v AV 12: 4/6 x 1/6 x 3/3 x 2/6 x 4 = 96/648. 100/648 x 96 = 14.81%

AC v AV 13: 4/6 x 1/6 x 2/3 x 2/6 x 4 = 64/648. 100/648 x 64 = 9.88%

AC v AV 14: 4/6 x 1/6 x 1/3 x 2/6 x 4 = 32/648. 100/648 x 32 = 4.94%

 

Laser canon------------18,52---14,81---11,11---7,41---3,70

 

TLLC are by and large the better option, but sometimes anti-troop that really puts the hurt on whatever comes after your LF's (or Dev's for non-SW's) can make the TLPGs worth it overall. Not always, but some. And unless it's BS 5, it should be 8/12 if I recall correctly, it's just that the reroll increases the chance of making the shot.

 

Nice numbers though, however the AC was for if he needed some mid-range firepower. I was going to recommend the TLLC or LC/TLPG, but I want the OP to see and learn what the uses are for the options. the turrets in question are worth getting anyway or converting, just it's the use that's important.

[Blitzkreig]

What is the point in playing Space Wolves if you aren't going for my name sake and revving the hell out of your engines to get as close as possible as fast as possible? Assault Cannons, Plasma Guns, Demolisher Cannons and other 24" range weapons are great because they force you into an aggresive playstyle and to me, defensive play is abhorent.

Because its on an AV 11 platform that's housing a scoring unit that I *don't* want footslogging across the battlefield?

 

Assault Cannon, I love those things.

Debateable. I find them unreliable at best - 6's to pen and then you get an extra dice that may or may not do something? No thanks. There's too many variables.

 

I've always considered it to be between the TLLC and LC/PG variants. If you are running Razorspam i.e. 4+ Razorbacks I'd recommend the LC/PG as they don't need the increased accuracy because there's so many of them and they get the extra AP2 shots when stuff starts to get close. If you run 3 or less I'd say stick with the TLLC so that you have reliable anti-tank.

 

The Asscan is best left for the BA's as they can use its fast movement to get into side armour much easier than we can and shoot at the typically more vulnerable flanks of enemy vehicles.

 

I only use 2 razorbacks and generally have a couple of Vindicators and Land Raiders roaring towards the enemy so they don't even try to shoot the razors... of course it is just personal preference.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

TLLC are by and large the better option, but sometimes anti-troop that really puts the hurt on whatever comes after your LF's (or Dev's for non-SW's) can make the TLPGs worth it overall. Not always, but some. And unless it's BS 5, it should be 8/12 if I recall correctly, it's just that the reroll increases the chance of making the shot.

 

Roll to hit at bs 4: 4/6 or 100/6x4 = 66.67%

 

the twin link allows you to re-roll the miss, as you know.

 

so the miss is 33.33%

two thirds of that miss will hit, using the re-roll

33.33/6x4 = 22.22%

 

66.67 + 22.22 = 88.89%

 

In fractions terms it goes like this:

 

4/6 + [2/6 x 4/6]

or

24/36 + 8/36

=32/36

or

8/9

[Godhead]

I love the las plas versions. As said a weapon destroyed result is more interesting because there is still a very viable gun on top regardless. I find it's a very viable way to get more plasma into your list and it can really help soften up enemy troops. I have at times formed a shield around my razorback with the GH's that were sitting inside just to get as many ap2 shots on the squad as possible.

 

However if its a razorback for my longfangs, it gets the TLLC in order to keep ranges the same and I take the cheaper option of a 5 ml long fangs and leave the LCs on the more mobile platform.

 

I also typically run 3-4 razorbacks in my lists.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

So if take the Grey hunter pack with a Power Weapon instead of the Lone wolf, what would you suggest I drop to take the Razor back? I will have an extra 5 pts from my wolf Guard as I will drop the terminator armour and chainfist and take one in Power armour with power fist and combi melta, though what would be best to drop, perhaps the Land Speeder with Heavy Bolter and Heavy Flamer? perhaps drop the Terminator armour on the rune priest to go with this to afford either an Assualt Cannon or LasPlas turret, (These two are my favourite options at the moment) Or would dropping the speeder damage my Anti Horde ability to much?

[Karack Blackstone]

Thanks for the clarification on your math, Marshal Wilhelm.

 

And to RP_Ridcully, I really can't help without seeing your list laid out normally, but I scrolled up to take a look at the one you posted above. It really boils down to what can you do without. Your list has alot going for it in terms of Anti-horde, but that Flamer/HB Land Speeder may be removable if you can deal with the slack elsewhere. It can also die to mass bolter-fire, so hopefully that can be addressed here.

 

As far as the Rune Priest goes that is up to you, I would say give it a try with a list hitting the points you want, and the units you want to really use being taken. I can't speak to LS's with Flamers as I mostly use MM on them. Otherwise, just give it a few tries (I would recommend the TLAC if you need midrange, the LC/TLPG if you need some more anti-troop) if those are what you like.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I used to always use land speeders in the previous codex, though since it came out I have been focusing on my Grey Knights and only recently have I been using my Wolves again, got tired of my Pure Grey knights and Thousand sons armies getting slaughtered by Blood Angels (Seriously, use Grey knights:not a single knight survives, use Thousand Sons: not a single Son survives, though seeing sons just tarpit dreads is fun for the first few games, it gets dull after a while) That is not the only reason, I have just been feeling it is time to use wolves again for somereason, guess it's true when they say you always go back to your first army.

Anyways, not that many Tyranid players, mostly various marines and a few orks, there are some of each army, though a few only have about one player, I am playing the Blood Angels again tomorrow (not a nasty army, he is fairly new, never played him before, he does use devestaor squads and a 10 man lightning claw termi squad. In consideration of the sort of armies in my LGS I think dropping the Land Speeder with Heavy Bolter+Heavy Flamer, Lone wolf and the Rune Priests termintor armour to take a pack of 5 grey hunters with power weapon and Razorback with TLAC, the TLAC being able to help with the anti horde, Though should I drop the Typhoon instead of the Heavy Bolter+Heavy Flamer one, the Typhoon has not really done much the last few games, and the Heavy Flamer+heavy Bolter one is better painted then the Tornado, so I think I will keep the Heavy Bolter+Heavy flamer speeder and RP's terminator armour and Drop the Typhoon instead with the Lone wolf, and so take the Grey Hunter pack with 5 guys and a power weapon and Razorback with TLAC, drop the wolf Guard in terminator armour with chainfist and replace him with a wolf guard in PA with Power fist and Combi Melta,, giving me 15pts spare, should I get a melta gun for the 5 man pack, and one of the 10 man Grey hunter packs a wolf totem?

[Karack Blackstone]

You seem to know what you need to do, good luck.

 

Other than that, just do your best and have fun. That's what this hobby really boils down to.

[Grey Mage]

Personally, I love the TLPG+LC option. Why?

 

1) Its a classic.

2) You get up to 3 AP 2 shots with decent range- arguably better than the AC.

3) You need 2 weapon destroyed hits to actually take out the turret.

4) The conversion was amazingly simple, what with all the PPs you get from a BC kit in the old days.

5) Its great support for a PG toting GH pack, wich itself can bring 5 AP 2 shots to bear.

 

It works out pretty well for me, and if your group will let you proxy I highly suggest giving it a spin.