Does anybody use Predators?

[Blitzkreig]

Today I managed to get a hold of 2 Predators for $5 each (still in boxes so I can give them whatever weapons I want) and was thinking of making them Lascannon turrets and Magnetized Sponsons. Due to the fact that in my Logan Grimnar list I have a fairly good firebase (Njal and a big Squad of Terminators) I was contemplating running them... at the moment I don't have any heavy support, yes yes I know don't say it.

 

So I wanted to know, do other people use them? And if so how do they fare?

[Hfran Morkai]

I don't use them. I will be running some when my new Great Company assembles but Long Fangs are a much more useful Heavy Support choice.

 

If you are going to use Predators I would stick with Autocannon turret and magnetize the sponsons because a Lascannon Predator is far too expensive to run, especially the Tri-Las.

[SeanyPrawny]

When running a mech list I always take 2 preds with tllc and hb sponsons. Genrally pop a tank a turn, though it really depends on my damage roll, I'm quite good at rolling ones and twos. I always run them along side one another, have them hunting as a pack. 2 lascannons can genrally take out any big threat and the mass of 4 hb's is enough to drop a good amount of troops. Ofc if I'm running mech I then also have 5 razorbacks so enemy fire is quite wide spread across my force.

 

For basicly the same points you get 2 lascanon and 2 heavy bolter armed longfangs with pack leader so I guess it comes down to troop or vehicle preferance.

 

Think I might make a new list with my mech now actually, been drifting towards footslogging and possing latly, be a nice change back :D

[Grimtooth]

My imagined SW armored speartip actually has two predators in it. Of course it also has two vindis and three Land Raiders.

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

i used to use them but then i got more long fangs. they still have a purpose i just dont like them much.

[Dyre]

I include one in a couple mech lists that im working on. I would only ever consider running AC w/ HBs or AC w/ LCs though.

[Godhead]

I ran a list with 3 ac/hb sponson preds. I was underwhelmed. Long Fangs have been performing better for me. I also have been giving them razorbacks so they are def more expensive, but more versatile in the long run. I however magnetized EVERYTHING so I can switch out the turret, the sponsons, the side doors and top hatch, so I can run them as rhinos, razorbacks or whatever flavor of predator I want. VERY VERY HAPPY with that purchase.

[Wolf Brother Osric]

I run a pair, usually to go with the big ol' firebase I dump on my home objective... tri-las variant and it really depends on what army I am fighting if they get their points back. At best I say they are a 50/50 type deal, either they do succeed spectacularly or fail spectacularly.

[Grey Mage]

Today I managed to get a hold of 2 Predators for $5 each (still in boxes so I can give them whatever weapons I want) and was thinking of making them Lascannon turrets and Magnetized Sponsons. Due to the fact that in my Logan Grimnar list I have a fairly good firebase (Njal and a big Squad of Terminators) I was contemplating running them... at the moment I don't have any heavy support, yes yes I know don't say it.

 

So I wanted to know, do other people use them? And if so how do they fare?

*blinks* Really, $5????

 

Wow. Nice steal.

 

If your running a WGTDA list Id suggest taking them with HB sponsons for some horde control- you should have CMLs on your terminators to bust armor with, and C-Ms to help out. If you dont, then all Las is probly better to crack heavy armor at range....

[Blitzkreig]

Well my mate won them at a tourney (and doesn't even play marines) so he was kind enough to do me a deal. I came 2nd and won a box of Sanguinary Guard (who I swapped somebody else for a box of Wolf Guard Terminators).... seriously I think I may be getting close to a codex chapters 1st company :).

 

I usually do run an all Wolf Guard list with CMLs but I just need that little extra punch for heavier armour so figured I'd use the Las-turret.

[Logan230]

I always run 2 tri-las with a squad of missile long fangs for transport detail. Annihilator shoot at big and long fangs shoot at little. My group always goes ''Two annihilators?...Damn."

[jmurph]

The TL las turret is way overpriced. While it looks neat, it is not an efficient buy. Better to get a tl-las razorback or long fangs. The AC/sponson las is a reasonable deal and AV 13. It murders transports.

 

I highly support magnetizing everything, though. I have mine setup so it can be a rhino, razor, or pred. Very useful and versatile! Also, magnetize your turret in case TL-las gets cheaper next codex :cuss

[WolfLord Digby]

I have one of each type of the pred variants and all i can say is they both always kick arse and kill way more than their own points value, Tri las isnt really that expensive for what you get, about 165pts i think depending on the extras.

Plus running an autocannon/heavy bolter sponson pred is an absolute steal even with the storm bolter and hunter killer missile its only 105pts..... Awesome.

Although Long fangs are also always selected in my armies aswell.

[rodgambit]

I like preds with an autocannon on top and las on the sides, however, I play both wolves and BA and after running them with BA (fast tanks) I wouldn't use them as wolves.

 

I like to try and run things that are unique to the codex and noone does dev squads like space wolves. So I do double long fangs and usually a whirlwind for anti horde.

 

For a fast BA army I'd take preds in a heartbeat.

[Tograth]

I generally run a logan based list, with 2 small units of longfangs. they werent impressing me at all in that list, so I switched them for a dread and an autocannon/ las sponson pred.

 

it worked quite well, so I took a look at another take on the list, and came up with this:

 

PA wolf lord, TH/SS, talisman

PA WGBL, TH/SS,

 

Dread - TLLC, Missile launcher

Dread - TLLC, Missile launcher

Dread - TLLC, Missile launcher

 

predator - autocannon/ las sponsons, Hunter killer missile

predator - autocannon/ las sponsons, Hunter killer missile

predator - autocannon/ las sponsons, Hunter killer missile

 

Grey hunter pack 1:

5 grey hunters, flamer

razorback - TLLC, Hunter killer missile

 

Grey hunter pack 2:

5 grey hunters, flamer

razorback - TLLC, Hunter killer missile

 

Grey Hunter pack 3:

6 grey hunters, PW, meltagun, wolf standard

rhino

 

Grey Hunter pack 4:

6 grey hunters, PW, meltagun, wolf standard

rhino

 

 

lord and WGBL go into packs 3 and 4 respectively.

 

gives the list a very respectable long range punch, and with 4 troops, 2 of which are tough as nails squads headed upfield, i can deal handily with most objective games.

 

 

 

 

 

when you use the predators, make sure you prioritize your targets. shoot one thing till its dead, and then move on, and remember what you need to target - the predators are fantastic at popping anything up to armor 12, 13 at a push. if someone brings AV14 - use the preds to take out the rest of their army and then concentrate on the raiders.

[Glimpse the Void]

My long fangs have been ruining peoples nights. I am doing a grimwing as well, and use no vehicles outside of drop pods. For me, the preds would just present easy targets for my opponents AV. As things stand, there meltas and las cannons are pretty much a waste.

 

They cost next to nothing in points, considering the fire they lay down. They offer both volume and versatility like few other heavies in the entire game. long fangs own vehicles, MEQ, and hordes. Spliting fire, they can do it all in the same round of shooting!

 

I am running 3x Rockets, 2x Las Cannons in one squad and 5x Rockets in the other. I had a Mechanized Ork player concede after our first turns, because he knew it would be impossible for him to get anywhere near the objectives.

 

In short, I'm in love with them. I'd never swap them for a predator, unless I found a pair for $5 each. Sometimes, I think I need a dred to drop in their backfield, just to watch the shenanigans.

[Wildfire]

I highly support magnetizing everything, though. I have mine setup so it can be a rhino, razor, or pred. Very useful and versatile! Also, magnetize your turret in case TL-las gets cheaper next codex ;)

 

Seconded! Also saves on space.

[Fenric]

Im tempted to run Predators since this friend i always end up facing is runnign a defiler or two every match and they always manage to blow up my longfangs early on. Once they survived until the end and then they did almost nothing since everythign had armor 12-13 or terminator armor and i ran rockets. I never managed to get out their points in value so hoping a Predator could. Next game I'm gonna run Predator with autocannon and lascannon on the sides.

Might actually run two like someone suggested to see if I can actually manage to shoot something to bits for once.

 

Then again probably not, since I must have done something really bad to the dice gods :confused:

[rodgambit]

My advice is always run double long fangs or double preds. If you rely on one, chances are your opponent will focus on it and it won't impress you. Scouts are the same way, sure you can run one but that'll be the game they end up on the wrong side of the board and do nothing. In my list the only thing I generally run 1 of is my whirlwind and when I play my eldar buddy he has to choose between going after that or my long fangs (which i run 2 of).

[LoneSniperSG]

What's wrong with y'all?

 

I have THREE Predators (one being the old kit from 10 years ago), One has the TLLC turret with heavy bolter sponsons, the other has autocannon with sponson lascannons, and the old one has the autocannon with heavy bolter sponsons. I also have enough Long Fangs for three packs, two Vindicators and one Land Raider Redeemer (Which will be rebuilt into a crusader).

 

When I ran in 'Ard Boyz, I had a Vindicator, a Predator and the Redeemer. The SINGLE Predator performed better than the other two tanks, and is now being painted to reward its exploits. She just absolutely refused to die. Immobilized, but still firing.

[rodgambit]

Mathhammer a x5 ml pack of long fangs will out perform a pred tank with autocan/las sponsons on av10 to av13 based on penetrating hits. Few other things to consider:

 

-side armour 11 on predator

-generally harder to get a 4+ hull down

-most glancing results will nullify its shooting the next round

-basically a 1 wound model

 

Like I said earlier. In a blood angels army they are the best anti armour option but for wolves the long fangs reign supreme. That being said you get a pair of them for 10 bocks use them but you could also magnetize them to run them as transports too.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Time to employ the Mythbusters team :P

 

Mathhammer a x5 ml pack of long fangs will out perform a pred tank with autocan/las sponsons on av10 to av13 based on penetrating hits. Few other things to consider:

 

-side armour 11 on predator

-generally harder to get a 4+ hull down

-most glancing results will nullify its shooting the next round

-basically a 1 wound model

 

Like I said earlier. In a blood angels army they are the best anti armour option but for wolves the long fangs reign supreme. That being said you get a pair of them for 10 bocks use them but you could also magnetize them to run them as transports too.

 

5 LF + 4 ML = 115

AutoLas Pred = 120

You need to play fair and compare similar points values.

 

So its 4 s8 weapons v 2 s9 & 2 s7 weapons. All but a dead heat??

 

Versus AV 10 LONG FANGS

4/6 to hit

4/6 to pen

2/6 to destroy

32/216 + {[184/216] x 32/216} + {[184/216]^2 x 32/216} + {[184/216]^3 x 32/216}

32/216 + 92/729 + 2116/19683 + 48668/531441

251600/531441

47.34%

 

AUTOLAS

4/6 to hit

5/6 to pen -> 3/6 to pen

2/6 to destroy

40/216 + {[176/216] x 40/216} + {[176/216]^2 x 24/216} + {([176/216]^2 x[192/216]) x 24/216}

40/216 + 110/729 + 484/6561 + 3872/59049

28073/59049

47.54%

 

Looks close enough to be called the same to me bro ;)

 

Versus AV 12 LONG FANGS

4/6 to hit

2/6 to pen

2/6 to destroy

16/216 + {[200/216] x 16/216} + {[200/216]^2 x 16/216} + {[200/216]^3 x 16/216}

16/216 + 50/729 + 1250/19683 + 31250/531441

140816/531441

26.50%

 

AUTOLAS

4/6 to hit

3/6 to pen -> 1/6 to pen

2/6 to destroy

24/216 + {[192/216] x 24/216} + {[192/216]^2 x 8/216} + {([192/216]^2 x[208/216]) x 8/216}

24/216 + 8/81 + 64/2187 + 1664/59049

15785/59049

26.72%

 

Looks close enough to be called the same to me bro ;)

 

I'd suggest that it is the same for AV 11 and 13, to be honest.

 

Armour.

Cannot be touched by infantry arms.

Cannot be locked in mêlée.

Cannot be wiped out by a single battle cannon shot in the same way as infantry can.

Won't flee from the table.

 

The more AV you pack onto the TT, the more survivable each piece of Armour will become. That is to say, stick a few Preds into a horde army and they will die. Stick some Preds into a Mechanized army and they will live. The bad guys will not have enough guns to take out the tanks quickly.

 

Your Pred should be deployed far back so that AV 11 is not a problem. You don't stick your LF somewhere dubious, so you need to show the same care for your Preds

 

EDIT: A nice compilation.

AutoLas: 47.54% 37.79% 26.72% 14.27% 7.27%

4x ML: 47.34% 37.57% 26.50% 14.01% xx%

[rodgambit]

I understand you wanting to compare at similar points, but who takes 4 long fangs? The ability to take 1 more heavy weapon and split fire is what sets them apart from normal marines so comparing them to a 4 man unit is not as realistic IMO. Now if your comparing them to a 4 man dev squad for marines or BA who employ fast preds, then by all means they outperform.

 

The autolas pred has the same range as the long fangs who you can put in cover. Gaining hull down without blocking LOS from the sponsons is going to be nearly impossible. In cover no battle cannon is going to wipe a long fangs pack. You also have wounds to give with the pack leader or by spending the points to add a wolf guard member.

 

Even a battle cannon that takes out half the squad doesn't make the squad useless. Even the worst damage table result (shaken) will cause the pred to sit and do nothing.

 

The predator is not a bad tank by any means, but I don't find it to be as survivable or flexible as long fangs, who can also handle horde armies with blast templates.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I understand you wanting to compare at similar points, but who takes 4 long fangs? The ability to take 1 more heavy weapon and split fire is what sets them apart from normal marines so comparing them to a 4 man unit is not as realistic IMO. Now if your comparing them to a 4 man dev squad for marines or BA who employ fast preds, then by all means they outperform.

 

The autolas pred has the same range as the long fangs who you can put in cover. Gaining hull down without blocking LOS from the sponsons is going to be nearly impossible. In cover no battle cannon is going to wipe a long fangs pack. You also have wounds to give with the pack leader or by spending the points to add a wolf guard member.

 

Even a battle cannon that takes out half the squad doesn't make the squad useless. Even the worst damage table result (shaken) will cause the pred to sit and do nothing.

 

The predator is not a bad tank by any means, but I don't find it to be as survivable or flexible as long fangs, who can also handle horde armies with blast templates.

 

I agree that if you are building a list, you buy the full caboodle and the LF win. No contest.

But if you have 120ish points, the AutoLas is as good as destroying AV AND can touch AV14 and can kill TEq (though the ML are better at killing MEq)

Also if you are running a Mech list, the Pred fits in better as it saturates enemy shooting with too many AVs to shoot at.

 

I think we are both agreeing - both are good, both are better in different spots and ideally you take 5 x MLs, ftw!

 

I have been thinking about 40K thinking for a while now.

People do things out of habit, preference, etc. and are not aware of everything.

I just want to get people to weigh up 5th ed evidence and not rely on tried and tested 4th ed tactics ~ because we ain't playing 4th no more :(

[Evilbob]

I have a pair but I've found myself using them less and less. But then again, I seem to be an odd duck who loves Land Speeders. I've been using the speeders for most of the roles my Preds used to fill.