Hear da Lamentation Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 While we have been playing for about 8 months now, we don't get that many games in, so are still relatively inexperienced. One of my player mates was re-reading the rules and came up with the thought that we had been playing the rules wrong in CC. This is the gist of what he was saying. A unit attacks another unit containing a HQ and (let's say) 5 GH. The unit attacking must decide whether to attack the unit OR the HQ. (previously we had been playing you could select the HQ on his own OR the unit (including the HQ) as one entity.) This means that if you choose to attack the unit your enemy CANNOT apply any wounds to the HQ. Is this right? One other question on bikers 5 bikers and a HQ on a bike. Beginning of their move. Are you allowed to do the following? Turbo boost the HQ away from the unit (thus leaving it) - but move the unit of 5 bikers normally - leaving them to shoot and assault as normal. (Or does the fact that the HQ turboboosts mean the unit also has to do the same?) Thanks in advance for helping clear this one up. H.D.L. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208128-rule-check/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSpike Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 1) Each model in the unit must allocate its attacks to either the HQ or the Unit (without HQ). Each model must be in b2b to allocate, or within 2" of a model in b2b. If Attacks are allocated to the Unit, they cannot hurt the HQ, and versa vice. 2) If the HQ leaves the Unit (Turbo boosted or no), then the Unit may do as it pleases, unrestricted by the (non-attached) HQ. Another example would be Devastators, with a HQ. If the HQ decides to move away, the Devs may still fire their Heavy Weapons (Assuming they do not move), even though the (now non-attached) HQ has moved. If a HQ TurboBoosts to join a squad, then the squad is limited by his Boost. And the Devs would not be able to fire on a turn that a HQ moves to join them, as the Unit (now incl. HQ) has moved. Hope this helps Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208128-rule-check/#findComment-2483262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz1858 Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 ^^ What he said!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208128-rule-check/#findComment-2483266 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoWolf Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 I agree with what was posted above, but wish to add to remember about Fearless. Assuming the HQ is Fearless, if you allocate wounds to the unit and wipe them out, the HQ has to take the Fearless armor saves. It is quite possible to wipe a whole unit this way (Poor, poor Chaos Marines, my usual opponent) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208128-rule-check/#findComment-2483336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear da Lamentation Posted August 8, 2010 Author Share Posted August 8, 2010 Great - thanks for the clear explanation there Blackspike. It was the last bit of the 1st line which caused us some confusion (i.e. did the "unit" include the HQ.) So I guess from what you are saying, if you had a unit of 10 attacking a unit of 5 with a HQ, assuming everyone was within 2" of someone in b2b, you could allocate 5 attacks to the HQ - and 5 to just the unit. Subtely different - but we were playing it wrong. Thanks for advice guys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208128-rule-check/#findComment-2483745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 One addition to what is above. Someone who is in base contact with the unit and not the HQ must attack the unit, someone in base contact with the HQ and not the unit must attack the HQ even if they are within 2 inches of someone in base contact with the unit. Someone in base contact with both can attack either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208128-rule-check/#findComment-2483817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brissebrajan Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 hmm... this is from page 41 of the rulebook... * "models that was engaged with more than one enemy unit at the beginning of the combat ... may split their attacks freely between those units. Declare how the are splitting their attacks immediatly before rolling to hit" this is from page 49 "independent characters & assault" "if a unit that has been joined by an independent character assaults in to cc, the character assaults to, as it is part of the unit. When the attacks are resolved, however, independent characters are always treated as a seperate singel-model unit..." this also means that if the unit is instead assaulted, the IC are always treated as a separate singel model unit. then on page 41 there is a picture to illustrate fighting or assaulting 2 units at the same time. In this case, that would be translated this way: if one of the models in the unit that assaults a unit with an IC, is in base contact with both the IC and a model of the unit that the IC joined, then that model can choose to attack either, or split its attacks freely between the IC and the enemy unit. And any model who isnt in base contact with any other unit, but are within 2" of the model that are in base contact with with both the IC and bla bla... may also choose to split its attacks between both the enemy unit and the HQ/character... Models that are in base contact with the enemy unit only, and not the IC can only allocate hits in the Unit and not the IC. ( say 10 attacks a unit of 5 + IC, 1 model in base with both the unit and the IC may choose how to split, 7 are in base with the unit but not the IC, can only attack the unit, 2 are not in base with either but 2" of the model in base with both, may choose to split just like the model in base with both...) So a model in base to base with Both can attack both at the same time.. say the model have 4 attacks, then he can choose to have 2 of them hitting the IC/HQ and the other 2 hitting the Unit... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208128-rule-check/#findComment-2484564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Just an addendum: I think the term you're looking for is IC, not HQ. An HQ is often an IC, but not always. Likewise, there are a number of ICs that are not HQs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208128-rule-check/#findComment-2485191 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brissebrajan Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Just an addendum: I think the term you're looking for is IC, not HQ. An HQ is often an IC, but not always. Likewise, there are a number of ICs that are not HQs. But it doesn't matter if the HQ in this case is a singel model IC or a HQ unit of one or more models, it will still count as another unit anyway, and if you have one model of your own in base with one from both units you can still attack them both at the same time... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208128-rule-check/#findComment-2485592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJumppanen Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Another note: If IC has something called "retinue" then IC is just an upgrade character and he can't be attacked separately. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208128-rule-check/#findComment-2485699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brissebrajan Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Another note: If IC has something called "retinue" then IC is just an upgrade character and he can't be attacked separately. Just checked the rules again, "independent character", and IC's shall always be treated as a seperat unit, even if you assign it to a unit of honorguards or whatever, the retinue is a unit attached to the IC and shall therefore also be treated as a seperate unit in closecombat. When i comes to shooting however, you target the unit not the IC. this is how i interpret the rules... IF you upgrade a model from a unit, to say sgt or unit champion, they become characters but not independent characters, they are still just another member of the unit, not an Independent Character = IC, and in this case, they do not become a seperate unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208128-rule-check/#findComment-2486881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 no, ICs with a retinue cannot be singled out Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208128-rule-check/#findComment-2486887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brissebrajan Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 no, ICs with a retinue cannot be singled out You are right, i have to take back what i just wrote.. missed the whole "Retinue" entry on page 48! my bad :ph34r: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208128-rule-check/#findComment-2486892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJumppanen Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 no, ICs with a retinue cannot be singled out You are right, i have to take back what i just wrote.. missed the whole "Retinue" entry on page 48! my bad :D It is kind of well hidden. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208128-rule-check/#findComment-2487222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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