Working with Pedro Kantor

[jesselowe]

I'm adding ol' Pedro to my army for this month's league at the FLGS and I'm looking for units he'll work well with. At the moment, the core of the army is a pair of tactical squads and a Sternguard squad, all in Rhinos, backed up by a quartet of land speeders. I'm debating between a unit of tactical terminators in a Land Raider Crusader or a full jump pack assault squad with chaplain (and something ~100 points to fill up the gap). The termies will be more durable, I think, but the assault squad will really take advantage of Pedro's Inspiring Presence Rule - assuming I can keep them within the magic 12" of him or his ride.

 

So with Pedro Kantor, is it better to go with tougher units or more attacks for a counterassault unit? (Sadly, assault terminators are not currently an option - haven't got the models.)

[Wolf Brother Osric]

Go with the best of both and grab Assault Terminators? :pirate:

 

Seriously, if you want to go with one of the units you listed I think a Tactical Terminator Squad would be best. They are more durable and have the same attacks so it could work.

[Koremu]

Have you considered Honour Guard, seeing an you want a CC unit and you are taking a Chapter Master anyway?

 

Also, what are you riding Kantor in if you don't take the Land Raider?

[jesselowe]

It's a 9-man Sternguard with Pedro in a Rhino. Honor guard's a good idea... hadn't considered them.

[JohnGrammaticus]

I say the tactical terminators cause they are one of the best space marine units

[7Thunders]

You know, I pined over this exact same question :P for days.

 

It's good to know i am not the only one.

 

this is what i did. (Keep in mind i am not the strongest tactician )

 

I run 2 10 man tac squads. + a full 10 man unit of sternguards.

 

it seemed to me like every time i put pedro with the sternguards.he

Got nuked. Sternguards just have that target painted on them.

 

I put him with a terminator unit and placed them in a land raider.

even though it's alot of points pedros ability to give an extra attack

helps alot ,and dorns arrow gives my termies some extra punch.

 

this gives my opponents a fit at times and it does allow my sternguard

to do their job.

[Ming]

I've used Kantor alot as my HQ of choice for 3rd Company. The best thing for him is to stay protected. Keep him behind the front line, close enough to inspire, back enough he can stand with his bodyguard and lend support. A demi-squad of more sternguard (sergeant with a PW, maybe the plasma cannons, rhino, or no plasmacannons but razorback) is best, next to an honor guard. His unit should only be used as a fire brigade or counterassault unit. Considering the efficiency of points and needing to be killy, the honor guard may be best as a bodyguard.

 

If you put him with a regular term squad, everyone is pretty much I1, which can be very bad if you get assaulted by a I4 assault squad with PWs or a simple ork horde, and they are focusing their attacks in the IC. The only good thing may be that the landraider essentially increases the size of your inspiration bubble if he stays inside the ride. But if he is doing that, he's not using his own weapon or orbital strike.

[Warp Angel]

I've used Kantor alot as my HQ of choice for 3rd Company. The best thing for him is to stay protected. Keep him behind the front line, close enough to inspire, back enough he can stand with his bodyguard and lend support. A demi-squad of more sternguard (sergeant with a PW, maybe the plasma cannons, rhino, or no plasmacannons but razorback) is best, next to an honor guard. His unit should only be used as a fire brigade or counterassault unit. Considering the efficiency of points and needing to be killy, the honor guard may be best as a bodyguard.

 

If you put him with a regular term squad, everyone is pretty much I1, which can be very bad if you get assaulted by a I4 assault squad with PWs or a simple ork horde, and they are focusing their attacks in the IC. The only good thing may be that the landraider essentially increases the size of your inspiration bubble if he stays inside the ride. But if he is doing that, he's not using his own weapon or orbital strike.

 

I spent a long time using Pedro Kantor in my army before I realized that for the same price I can get a better Captain. Different benefits, but similar overall contributions to the army.

 

Captain - Bike - Relic Blade - Hellfire Rounds

 

Similarities - like Pedro, makes something scoring that isn't usually scoring. Has equivalent firepower, better against monstrous creatures, not as effective against horde.

Benefits - strikes at Initiative, T5 for most purposes

Discrepancies - doesn't give his attached unit any benefits.

 

But if I were to run Pedro again, I'd definitely put him back in a land raider with assault terminators.

[Ming]

Kantor's better benefit is his ability to inspire (that is, every unit with a model within x inches get +1A) effectively making him a huge force multiplier. His big issue is one of being fragile. He also causes you to be stubborn, which has its own impact, alive or not, not to mention making sternguard scoring.

 

I actually had Kantor in a pod list go against Shiny's biker list almost a year ago, where Shiny had a biker captain as described above. Kantor lost in HTH, of course, being I1 T4, getting smacked down by a I5 T5 S6 relic'd captain on a bike, IC to IC. The rest of the sternguard and a nearby libby also perished in the expanded brawl, brought to conclusion by some assault terminators, who then later failed the rock-paper-scissors contest vs a venerable dread. Shiny won later on in objectives too.

 

I'd agree that a great way to protect Kantor would be in a landraider with a pack of assault terminators, but it is more expensive, and it seemed the person starting the thread did not have them available (yet). Overall, there are lots of cool ways to build lists with characters!

[captain sox]

how about 10 Tactical Terminators with 2 Cyclone Launchers.... No ride needed. you can sit back and fire the 2 CML and then drop Pedro's Bombardment.... if it works it will kill tons of stuff.

 

10 Terminators with 2 CML would be around 460 pts.

 

5 Terminators with a Land Raider Crusader would be ~ 450-480 pts.

 

Just my thoughts.... (I love the CML Terminators).

[SteelAngelJohn]

I'd definitely say Terminators (Assault or Tac) will benefit far more from the +1A than the assault marines. It's all been said already; just thought I'd throw in my frag.

[ShinyRhino]

As Ming said, Pedro is a far better defendive force multiplier than an offensive one. I'd go with Tac Terminators over the Assault Marines. Assault Marines are going to be a far-ranging unit, often outside Kantor's zone of influence. The only real benefit they're going to get is Stubborn if they fail a close combat.

Terminators are going to get 3 attacks when charged, or 4 when charging. That's brutal, even for a 5-man squad. 16 powerfist attacks, and 4 powerweapon attacks can put some hurt on things approaching your line. You also get a nice 24" fire zone from stormbolters and an assault cannon, or some krak missiles from a Cyclone.

 

Also, as Ming said, Kantor is not a close combat IC. He might seem like it with that powerfist, but he gets absolutely ROCKED by anything that goes faster than I1. I've pinched his face off both with a Venerable Dreadnaught, and with a Biker Captain with Relic Blade in various games.

 

Pedro Kantor is more like a George Washington, and less like a William Wallace.

[Ming]

Quoting Shiny: "Pedro Kantor is more like a George Washington, and less like a William Wallace. "

 

True, very true.

[Xeonic]

You could always just put him in a rhino with some assault marines, and leave him there to shoot out of the top hatch whilst they run off to assault things like vanguard vets, dorn's arrow would add a little firepower to a rhino moving 6" a turn purely to keep things within the +1a bubble.

 

Does his attack bonus work from within a vehicle? I was presuming it worked like a bigmek's KFF.

[Ming]

Yep, you don't have to see him to be inspired, just like George Washington...just knowing he is nearby warms the cockles of your heart and the trigger of your chainsword....

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Yep, you don't have to see him to be inspired, just like George Washington...just knowing he is nearby warms the cockles of your heart and the trigger of your chainsword....

 

If only the Continental Army had had chainswords. . . .

 

I'm planning on using Pedro with a podding Sternguard squad and rather than open a whole new thread, I figured I'd opt into this one. Has anyone tried this? He makes those Veterans three attacks base, which makes them a rough target for an assault, and four per model on the charge which is better than a stock Assault Marine. Plus, I've got a power fisting sarge in there, so he goes to three/four, which combined with Pedro himself is six power fist attacks if charged. The reason I bring this up is that most podded shooting squads get charged off the bat to prevent them from getting in more than one turn of shooting, so it'll make them a hard charge target AND they get their special rounds AND I loaded them down heavy with combi-weapons of all types.

[ShinyRhino]

I'm planning on using Pedro with a podding Sternguard squad and rather than open a whole new thread, I figured I'd opt into this one. Has anyone tried this? He makes those Veterans three attacks base, which makes them a rough target for an assault, and four per model on the charge which is better than a stock Assault Marine. Plus, I've got a power fisting sarge in there, so he goes to three/four, which combined with Pedro himself is six power fist attacks if charged. The reason I bring this up is that most podded shooting squads get charged off the bat to prevent them from getting in more than one turn of shooting, so it'll make them a hard charge target AND they get their special rounds AND I loaded them down heavy with combi-weapons of all types.

 

It'll be a tough unit to kill without taking casualties, that's for sure. You just have to be very careful of where you drop them in. Any dedicated assault unit nearby will smack them around with power weapons/rending/etc. If you want to keep Pedro alive, place his squad all around him, pinning him against the drop pod. he won't be able to attack, but neither will the opponent be able to get to him until at least the second assault phase once casualties have been removed from play.

This way, you preserve your blanket bonuses from his special rules, and only miss out on a couple powerfist attacks. Of course, this won't work as well against a Walker or other single-base or very small unit, as your Sternguard will have to make Defenders React moves to base as many of the enemy as possible. It works a treat against larger infantry units, though, because the opponent must base as many of YOUR models first, and then you React in. Pedro should be hemmed in by your own models who won't be able to move to base, and therefore be safe for one turn.

 

It all comes down to enemy army composition. If you can land that pod near a bunch of units that are poor in assault, you're golden. Special ammo will cut things down, and your high number of attacks will deter the enemy from wasting units to tarpit you, or allow you to break out of the tarpit sooner. You get a nice little "rock versus hard place" conundrum to slap your enemy with.