PA Wolf Guard

[Sven_Bloodhowl]

Simply put, is it worth investing in a power armoured squad of wolf guard. I'm in the process of making an army list at the moment, and was wondering whether they would be worth the investment. Having never been a fan of TDA wolf guard, but still wanting a heavy hitting squad i was looking to these as the answer.

 

I was looking at a squad like this:

 

7 Wolf Guard

- 1 Powerfist/Combi-Melta

- 1 Thunder Hammer/Combi-Melta

- 1 2x Wolf Claw

- 1 Power Weapon

- 1 Mark of the Wulfen

- 2 No Uprgrades

 

This Squad weighs in at 236pts and i'm not sure if i can really justify the cost given that they will also need a transport as well.

 

So what do you guys thing good idea or not, and if not any possible ways to improve on the squad?

[littlbitz]

I really think that Power Armor Wolf Guard can be worth it, (Esp. in a Logan List).

 

For just a few points you are gaining a point of leadership and an extra attack.

 

I think to decide if the unit you have designed is worth it or not, you have to look at a few things

 

1. the role of the unit within "your" list

2. the points cost of the unit compared to other units which can perform the same job as others in the list

3. and of course theme within your Great Co. and your own coolness factor (this last point always weighs in the most heavily with me)

 

Lets do a quick comparison,

 

Take the unit you made above and compare it with a fully kitted out GH pack:

10 Grey Hunters with 2 Melta-guns, a Plasma Pistol, a Power Fist, Mark of the Wulfen, and a Standard weighs in at 220 points (I'm pretty sure on this anyways, I don't have my Codex in front of me to confirm points values)

 

Right off the bat you have a savings of 16 points and an additional 3 guys

 

When you look at the Fire Power of both units the Grey Hunters will win out everytime, vs. the unit you made above.

 

Its close combat that it looks like your Pack should win out. On the charge your pack will probably kill about 7 meqs (if my math is right)

While the GH pack will kill probably only kill about 3 maybe 4 if you add in the Standard (again if my math is right)

 

So, supported properly and in the right transport, the WG do seem worth it in an assault role, but they do cost more and you have less of them, so you are going to have to be careful of where and who you assault.

 

Besides, a unit of Wolfguard like the one you listed above would definitely look very cool, and be loads of fun to field

[SeanyPrawny]

The problem I see with pa wolfguard is survivability. They are still just I4 so using the above comparison when assaulting a unit like that, tho ur wiping 7 of them they will wipe 4 of ur guys at the same time meaning ur much less effective after the 1st assault.

Saying this I do still use em but have em all with combi-plas in pods. After dropping and wiping a unit they are effectivly 3rd ed. Grayhunters :-P

[Sven_Bloodhowl]

@littlbitz - the coolness factor was probably one of the main reasons i was thinking about including them as well as needing a good close combat unit. but i'm not sure whether i will have enough anti-tank capability, if i include them i will only have a Long Fang pack with Missile Launchers a Dread with 2xT/L Autocannon and a T/L Lascannon Razorback is this enough?

 

@SeanyPrawny - along with cost survivability was another reason that had me skeptical about taking them 236pts is a lot of money for 7 models who still are no harder to kill than marines

[Dyre]

@littlbitz - the coolness factor was probably one of the main reasons i was thinking about including them as well as needing a good close combat unit. but i'm not sure whether i will have enough anti-tank capability, if i include them i will only have a Long Fang pack with Missile Launchers a Dread with 2xT/L Autocannon and a T/L Lascannon Razorback is this enough?

 

Need to know the point value to answer that question.

[Sven_Bloodhowl]

i mainly play 1500pts although i occassionally play 1750pts as well

[SeanyPrawny]

You could run them basic with maybe one fist and combi-melta and one power weapon. Then theyre just a blood claw unit with better ws, bs and ld with the same attacks on the charge and more in subsequent turns compared to the claws. I dunno what the points come to on that but I think in general the 3pts for the ws, bs, ld and attack are worth it

[littlbitz]

You can do them cheaper and still have lots of CC punch.

 

As far as Anti-tank punch it really depends upon your local meta-game. I tend to really on Melta-guns and Packs with Melta-bombs to do the job, and the ranged anti-tank is really in a support role.

 

You could take a unit with 10 WG with 3x Powerfists and 2x Combi-meltas for 250 points. For just 16 points more than your original unit you add 3 models and have 9 Powerfist attacks on the charge!

 

I like the Drop Pod idea, but I am of the school of thought that if I am only taking one pod then its a cheap suicide Pack. Or I am going to take at least 3 so I get 2 on the first turn.

[Chodjinn]

Aside from pack leaders, I quite fancy a squad or two of PA Wolf guard to run in bigger games. I'm liking the idea of a couple of hammer squads;

 

10x combiplasma/melta & Wolf Claws in a drop pod

 

10x CC orientated with PLENTY of Wolf Claws, a thunderhammer/powerfist or two and a couple of storm shields.

 

Expensive, but certainly fun.

 

The only problem with PA WG, is that once you start tooling them up they get expensive.

 

A PA WG with twin Wolf Claws is only 5pts cheaper than the TDA equivalent IIRC, but you can get twice as many in transports. I love the idea of 9x twin WCs in a DP with Ulrik and just watching them chew through a horde list :)

[SeanyPrawny]

The 3 fist idea is good. I like that. With the pod I should have mentioned I had 3 of them like that and 3 more with terminators and logan :-P turn 2 win.

[Sven_Bloodhowl]

At the moment i'm leaning towards littlbitz's squad idea, the problem is i want all my Wolf Guard to retain individuality and the only way i can think of modelling this in game is their choice of weaponry, if most of them were to have CCW+Bolt Pistol i think this individuality would be lost, unless i can think of some really creative modelling.

[SeanyPrawny]

Just give em diffrent non powered weapons. Axes, swords, hammers, duel combat knives, flails, spears, morning stars. What ever u can think of. Even scimitars or summet that another chapter could have gifted them

[Dyre]

Chaos warrior hand weapons are great for that. I boght a bunch of them on ebay really cheap.

[Wysten]

As said close combat weapons cover a pretty huge area, including fangs and what not. So theres plenty of ways to individlise them rather then giving them the most expensive toys. Or at least have the toys have meaning.

 

A pair of Combi Flamers, Meltas could make a valid contribution against anything, and could be dotted out elsewhere if nessiary. While the toys cost, they could quite easily pay for themselves. Zapping the strength of the unit before melee is joined. Then once they actually join combat, remove the used combi fellows first, assuming that the stream of destuction drew the foes attention. Individalty does not mean that groups of wolves can't have similar tastes in slaying.

[Sven_Bloodhowl]

Many thanks to all for all the help offered both for the squad itself and how to model the squad as individuals. Especial thanks go to Dyre for his suggestion of using chaos warrior weapons as not only have they got a wealth of weapon choices to use but i have finally found a wolf standard to my liking.

 

On another note does anybody think it's odd that wolf guard don't have the option of carrying a Bolter as well as CCW+Bolt Pistol it just seems weird that are so called veterans don't have the option of doing something our basic troops can do.

[Quillen]

I have been using a WG pack of 10 WG with 2 fists and 3 power weapons with Ragnar. It has won ever game it has been in and done an amazing job, thou Ragnar always seems to die to crap saves.

 

It's 250 points. Has 6 Power fist and 12 power weapon attacks and more with Ragnar. You have 5 bodies to use as shields for thw special weapons.

 

It's 250 all together for the WG and then I use a Crusader for 275 as the transport. Junk in Ragnar and you have a ton of points. Still they own.

 

I put a Wolf Priest with them once. It was nice.

[Dyre]

Many thanks to all for all the help offered both for the squad itself and how to model the squad as individuals. Especial thanks go to Dyre for his suggestion of using chaos warrior weapons as not only have they got a wealth of weapon choices to use but i have finally found a wolf standard to my liking.

 

On another note does anybody think it's odd that wolf guard don't have the option of carrying a Bolter as well as CCW+Bolt Pistol it just seems weird that are so called veterans don't have the option of doing something our basic troops can do.

 

 

No problem.

 

I found it a little odd at first as well. But the extra point of leadership and extra attack is nice for only 3 more points. The extra base attack is huge now for powerfists because bolt pistols no longer add an extra attack when used with a PF.

[Sven_Bloodhowl]

Sorry to ask yet another question but does anybody know where i might find some suitable spears for marines? I've checked most of the GW site and BitsandKits but haven't been able to finde anything that feels right except NFW's which are more halberds than spears.

[Dyre]

Sorry to ask yet another question but does anybody know where i might find some suitable spears for marines? I've checked most of the GW site and BitsandKits but haven't been able to finde anything that feels right except NFW's which are more halberds than spears.

 

 

I've been looking for some too. I tossed in some Ungor herd spear arms with my last bits purchase, I havent recieved them yet so I dont know if they will be the right size. But they look cool.

[ORKILL]

I run

 

2x combi flamer/power weapon

2x stormbolter

1x combi-plasma/powerfist

1x power weapon/ bolt pistol

1x combi melta / power fist

 

with a wolf priest in a rhino.

 

The squad works really well.

[Grey Mage]

Ill occaisionally run:

8x WG- PW

2x WG- PF, C-M

310pts. Can fit in a rhino, or it points allow- a landraider of any variety. That 32 PW attacks on the charge, 6 PF attacks, and 2 melta shots for popping enemy transports.

 

If I were a bit more of a pyromanic... or actually used death-star units... Id add in Ragnar, and a Wolf Priest in a LRR with MM and EA.

 

Still, its worth the 300+ pts just to see the look on my local necron players face when I get off the charge on 2 or 3 of his warrior units and they vaporise. Phase out turn 3 :rolleyes:

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

What does everyone think of a 4-5 Wolf Guard in Power armour, each with a storm shield and maybe 3 frost blades and 2 thunder hammers/powerfist to act as a body guard for a Wolf Lord in Power armour with frost blade, plasma pistol, belt of Russ, 2 fenrisian Wolves and saga of the bear if I can squeze in the points, all put either in a Lascannon/Twin linked Plasma gun Razorback or a rhino, again depending on points, in a 2000pts army list? I have only ever used power armoured wolf guard for pack leaders, so am not sure how this "Shieldwall" pack will do, and would like some feedback before I convert it (Planning to do them in Mk2,3 and 4 power armour, each with a cloak and old 2nd ed wolf backpacks, so I t will be a big investmant.)

[Chodjinn]

What does everyone think of a 4-5 Wolf Guard in Power armour, each with a storm shield and maybe 3 frost blades and 2 thunder hammers/powerfist to act as a body guard for a Wolf Lord in Power armour with frost blade, plasma pistol, belt of Russ, 2 fenrisian Wolves and saga of the bear if I can squeze in the points, all put either in a Lascannon/Twin linked Plasma gun Razorback or a rhino, again depending on points, in a 2000pts army list? I have only ever used power armoured wolf guard for pack leaders, so am not sure how this "Shieldwall" pack will do, and would like some feedback before I convert it (Planning to do them in Mk2,3 and 4 power armour, each with a cloak and old 2nd ed wolf backpacks, so I t will be a big investmant.)

 

You won't fit 4-5 guard, lord, and two wolves in a razorback, but you'd fit them in a rhino. Wolves take up 2 slots like terminators.

 

I think that's a high points squad that would do well in CC but would die horribly to a big pie plate or lucky shot. I really don't agree with spending lots of points on a PA squad, therefore my expensive squads will have additional protection via TDA/TWM. Although I will make a PA squad as I outlined above for fun games.

 

Personally, spend the same/similar points, junk the rhino and go for a DP to get them into combat turn 1/2. You really don't want a squad like that gunning across the board for a couple of turns before getting into combat without any capability to shoot back, it's to great a risk for such a points investment.

[Quillen]

Fantasy Dark Elf spears are good. I have used alot of them.

[Sanct]

I know this is a bit of a rez thread moment but what do people think of:

10 Wolf Guard

Cyclone missile launcher, Chain fist

Cyclone missile launcher, Wolf claw

Terminator armour, Wolf claw

7 with bolt pistols/close combat weapons

 

as part of a logan footsloggin list?

310 points makes it expensive as hell but they are putting out very decent ranged firepower and aren't too shabby in close combat.