How Many Bikes?

[captain sox]

A simple question...

 

How many bikes (scout, attack and regular) is enough? Do you have all bike lists, or do you just run attack bikes....

 

I trying to decide whether I want to expand my bike numbers, or eliminate them.

 

 

Thanks!

[Ming]

I'll start by running a 4 bike plus 1 attack bike list...

[captain sox]

cool...

 

I'll add by saying I have 6 Regular Bikes, one HB Attack Bike and 5 Scout Bikes...

 

I will for sure keep the Scout Bikes and likely add to the Attack Bikes

[Jackelope King]

I run a hybrid biker army (20+ bikers backed up by 3x Preds, 3x Dreads and 3x Typhoons), and I waffle endlessly on what's the "best" number of bikers in a squad.

 

For now, the pendulum has swung the other way, and I run two full biker squads (8 bikes + an attack bike each). Less melta (I lose 2x meltaguns and 1x Multi-Melta). It gives me the option of having very durable scoring units that can really put the hurt on light-infantry or tanks, or combat squad them and flood the board with small, tough-ish squads. Either way, these roll behind a Biker Command Squad for cover (3+ invuln and feel no pain on a T5 bike are very hard to put wounds on).

 

Scout bikes are, unfortunately, not very competitive. You want those FA slots in a biker army for speeders of one flavor or another (HF/MM in a more "full" bike list, Typhoon in hybrid / fast n' slow bikers).

[pueriexdeus]

C:SM says eight Bikes with an AB, for a total of 10 in your Squad. But you can run the smaller if you wish.

 

Keep in mind though that less bikes could hurt in CC.

 

As a DA player, I like the six Bikes, AB, Speeder option. Lots of Daka and scoring units.

[Jackelope King]

Keep in mind though that less bikes could hurt in CC.

If you're running bikers with Codex: Space Marines, your bikers stay the hell out of close combat. If someone gets close, run away. If you get assaulted, Combat Tactics out (and combat tactics works really well for bikers, who will fall back far enough to get away easily most of the time and regroup automatically). The only exception to this is the Biker Command Squad, who love being up close and personal where they can casually slice and dice enemy units. Bikers default to a shooty army with a few nasty close-combat choices.

 

On the other hand, if you're doing a Blood Angels Assault Marine + Bikes list (AKA Blood Rodeo), you're probably going to have those Biker squads in Feel No Pain / Furious Charge bubbles provided by Red Grails. Give your Sergeant a fist or a power sword. Bikes are there to provide a screen for the second wave (consisting of Assault Marines) and to be the anvil that pins enemy units in place while waiting for Vanguard Vets to Heroic Intervention in and start beating face. But that's only if you're using Codex: Blood Angels. It doesn't work for Codex: Space Marines.

[ShinyRhino]

The one thing Scout Bikers can give you that normal bikes cannot is the ability to Infiltrate/Scout for a first-turn charge, or Outflank without paying for Khan. I can see smallish Scout Biker units being alright if armed with 3/5 Astartes Grenade Launchers, and a meltabombor powerist for the sergeant. Not game-breaking though.

 

I run a hybrid biker list right now, as well. Two squads of 8 bikes, each with an attached attack bike. One with plasmaguns, and one with meltaguns. Back these up with my Biker Captain, 2x Mechanized Tacticals in Rhinos, and a couple Dreads. Works great.

 

I'm actually working on phasing in another full 8-man+AB squad to push out the Dreads. The Dreads get left behind a lot, or cannot keep up with the advance. They're great for opening things up at range, though.

 

 

All in all, though, there are two popular ways to run bikes...as an all-out force, or as fast support to the rest of your army. The thing is, when run as fast support for a non-bike army, attack bikes are both more efficient, and more reliable.

Of course, never run solo attack bikes. A single stray krak missile can net your opponent a killpoint in Annihilation missions, and solo attack bikes don't tend to have the weight of fire needed to be deadly.

[Koremu]

The one thing Scout Bikers can give you that normal bikes cannot is the ability to Infiltrate/Scout for a first-turn charge, or Outflank without paying for Khan. I can see smallish Scout Biker units being alright if armed with 3/5 Astartes Grenade Launchers, and a meltabombor powerist for the sergeant. Not game-breaking though.

Locator Beacon. Combined with Tigurius in a Deep Strike list, they are fantastic for pinpoint drop precision. There's something about Deep Striking 3 Multi-Melta Land Speeders with no chance of error 12" from a Land Raider that never fails to amuse.

[DerekLee688]

Bike squads are where my melta comes from. 4xbikes+2xMelta guns+MMAB. That's 3 fast melta shots (scoring with bike Capt.) for 185pts. Small, but I field 2-3 minimum.

 

Yes it is min max, but my army needs the melta. Typhoons can't kill everything.

[ShinyRhino]

Bike squads are where my melta comes from. 4xbikes+2xMelta guns+MMAB. That's 3 fast melta shots (scoring with bike Capt.) for 185pts. Small, but I field 2-3 minimum.

 

Yes it is min max, but my army needs the melta. Typhoons can't kill everything.

 

How often do you find these squads assaulted by the enemy?

I'm trying to find a balance between suicide meltabikes, and non-suicide meltabikes. The problem I typically face is that I zoom my meltaguns into range, fire, and maybe kill what I shot at if outside 6". The unit is then promptly assaulted by the occupants of the transport on the next turn and either tarpitted, or chopped down.

 

How do you mitigate this risk, if at all?

[DerekLee688]

I don't play regularly, but here's what little I got to offer. A 4xbike+MMAB is alot smaller than 8xbike+MMAB units, it helps keep them out of some assault on thier way in. Their primary targets are tanks/walkers/land raiders. Rhinos, waveserpents, chimeras, and the like get kraked by typhoons and auto-cannons. That's how I get around being assaulted by occupants.

 

Having 4+MMAB provides just as many melta shots as 8+MMAB. So just use two squads. It only sucks half as much when one gets locked up in combat, then it's best to send the RB+SS bike capt. to save the day.

[Jackelope King]

I don't play regularly, but here's what little I got to offer. A 4xbike+MMAB is alot smaller than 8xbike+MMAB units, it helps keep them out of some assault on thier way in. Their primary targets are tanks/walkers/land raiders. Rhinos, waveserpents, chimeras, and the like get kraked by typhoons and auto-cannons. That's how I get around being assaulted by occupants.

 

Having 4+MMAB provides just as many melta shots as 8+MMAB. So just use two squads. It only sucks half as much when one gets locked up in combat, then it's best to send the RB+SS bike capt. to save the day.

The main disadvantage to this setup is cost. You pay a premium for the sergeant. For now, I'd recommend sticking with a larger squad to avoid this premium and make it a little easier getting bodies on the table (the main weakness of Biker lists), but I think the trade-off between the two is mainly up to taste.

[Brother_Fatiswon]

Crazy idea- how about a Bolter gun line with Lysander?

8 bikes+AB w/ HB+ Libby on bike w/null zone and force dome

Lysander + x5 man stern guard w/ x2 laser cannons in a pod

 

at 12inches, some like 28 re-rolled bolter shots, married with Null...

turn 1 turbo boost to your personal "line in the sand"

drop the pod in behind them, deploy.

attact lysander to the bikes at the start of turn 2

and due to relentess, you should be able to move your line 6" to push your attack bubble out to 18"

CRAzY rite?

[ShinyRhino]

Crazy idea- how about a Bolter gun line with Lysander?

8 bikes+AB w/ HB+ Libby on bike w/null zone and force dome

Lysander + x5 man stern guard w/ x2 laser cannons in a pod

 

at 12inches, some like 28 re-rolled bolter shots, married with Null...

turn 1 turbo boost to your personal "line in the sand"

drop the pod in behind them, deploy.

attact lysander to the bikes at the start of turn 2

and due to relentess, you should be able to move your line 6" to push your attack bubble out to 18"

CRAzY rite?

 

Biker boltguns are already twin-linked. Lysander would be redundant.

[mowglie]

How often do you find these squads assaulted by the enemy?

 

How do you mitigate this risk, if at all?

 

Have another unit ready to deal with whatever is in the transport. Bike armies win in the movement phase. No need to give your opponent the opportunity to pick you off one-by-one.

 

Bike unit 1 shoots transport

Bike unit 2 shoots passengers

Both units assault and clean up

 

Or if you play combined arms:-

 

3x MMAB explode transport

Tactical squad exits nearby stationary rhino and double-flamers passengers

Both units assault and clean up

 

My personal favourite:-

 

Bike squad 1 turbo boosts surrounding the tank such that the enemy cannot disembark

Bike squad 2 wrecks tank

 

Lots of other situations

 

You certainly shouldn't just be letting whatever was in the transport assault you. If you can't get the kill, don't engage.

[Tanhausen]

mowglie, I'd say that you cannot target troops that get out of a blown up transport... only assault them. Don't have the BRB here, so I can't quote the page.

[ShinyRhino]

mowglie, I'd say that you cannot target troops that get out of a blown up transport... only assault them. Don't have the BRB here, so I can't quote the page.

 

No such rule exists. If you explode or wreck a transport with Unit A, you are free to shoot and/or assault the passengers with Unit B. The only restriction is that Unit A must assault the passengers, if it wants to assault anything at all.

[Tanhausen]

Maybe I didn't word it properly.

 

Unit A (say a LS with MM/HF) pops open a LR with a tactical squad inside..

 

1.- Can it now flame the troops that just disembarked because of the explosion? I think not.

 

2.- Can, in the same shooting phase, a tactical squad that just happens to be there gun-line the disembarked models? I think neither.

 

3.- Can any unit assault the disembarked unit? Yes.

 

I'll check it (if I remember :P) when I get home, but I think it had something to do with not being a target at the beggining of the shooting phase.

[mowglie]

1.- Can it now flame the troops that just disembarked because of the explosion?

 

No. It has already fired and cannot fire again.

 

2.- Can, in the same shooting phase, a tactical squad that just happens to be there gun-line the disembarked models?

 

Yes. The disembarked squad is now a legal target (although if the transport exploded, the squad will now likely be recieving cover saves - particularly if it has been forced to go to ground)

 

3.- Can any unit assault the disembarked unit? Yes.

 

Yes. Additionally, whichever unit shot the transport may not assault any other units.

 

I'll check it (if I remember :P) when I get home, but I think it had something to do with not being a target at the beggining of the shooting phase.

 

To my knowledge, no such rule exists.

[Tanhausen]

I guess I mixed up that the unit that blows up the transport cannot shoot the disembarked troops :D

 

Good thing these screw ups turn up here and not in a game :D

[Stownfox]

At 1850 I play 40 bikes and 10 assault termintaors. Here is the list rundown:

 

150: Captain on a bike with lightening claw

400: 10 assault terminators 6 TH/SS & 4 LCs

310: 8 bikes with 2 melta guns/PF & 1 MM attackbike

310: 8 bikes with 2 melta guns/PF & 1 MM attackbike

215: 6 Bikes with 2 flamers & 1 HB attack Bike

265: 10 scout bikers with 3 Grenade Launchers & PF

100: 2 MM attack bikes

100: 2 MM attack bikes

 

This list has perfromed well against most opponents and is very fun to play. Termis, 2 melta bike squads and the scout bikes are able to tac out if needed. Scout bikes provide alpha strikers/outflankers & the huge number of melta weapons kills vehicles/MCs while all my twin linked bolters down hordes. The terminators create a 12 inch no man land and provide a great counter assault. they almost always foot slog across the board.

[Red Lost Soldier]

I run the minimum squad size, 4 bikes plus attack bike plus 2 special weapons. One of my main concerns in terrain, any bigger unit size and I simply can't move around without taking dangerous terrain tests. Maybe there is simply more terrain where I play?

 

Also as has been pointed out, you simply do not get much more meaningful firepower as you up the squad size as most of the damage comes from special weapons. Also I don't think the cost of a single Tau Fire Warrior is a premium to pay for the sergeant.

 

Standard bikes simply cannot stand up to dedicated assault units (TH/SS, 'Stealers, Harlies etc.), and even with a combat sergeant will crumble to just about any other semi combat unit (Tacticals/Crusaders) simply due to numbers. T5 helps, but not enough as most damage comes things that ignore it like rending, MCs and power fists.

 

Bikes are fast enough to avoid most combats, but even when all else fails they are the best unit in the codex to take advantage of combat tactics. Fall back and dissolve the enemy unit in more firepower in your turn.

 

At 1750pt I run 20 bikes in 4 troops units, 1-2 ICs on bikes, and I still want more.