army310 Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 I just got the old space wolf codex from 1994 and well we got nefed bad like a wolf lord was WS BS S T W I A LD points 7 7 5 5 3 7 3 10 90 now he is 6 5 4 4 3 5 4 10 100 grey hunters were even better too but not by much WS BS S T W I A LD 5 4 4 4 1 4 1 8 at 316 points for 10 and sergeant with a power sword now they are 4 4 4 4 1 4 1 8 at 150 for 10 guys well they are cheaper but still but long fangs are great i say better than wolf guard of today WS BS S T W I A LD 5 5 4 4 1 5 1 9 at 157 for 5 and a sergeant with a power axe still had to buy the heavy weapons but if you could go for melta gun they would be bad EDIT: Any further political commentary and this thread will get pushed out the airlock. Please read the forum rules before we have to start issuing warnings. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208321-what-happen-to-the-space-wolves/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 I just got the old space wolf codex from 1994 and well we got nefed bad like a wolf lord wasWS BS S T W I A LD points 7 7 5 5 3 7 3 10 90 now he is 6 5 4 4 3 5 4 10 100 grey hunters were even better too but not by much WS BS S T W I A LD 5 4 4 4 1 4 1 8 at 316 points for 10 and sergeant with a power sword now they are 4 4 4 4 1 4 1 8 at 150 for 10 guys well they are cheaper but still but long fangs are great i say better than wolf guard of today WS BS S T W I A LD 5 5 4 4 1 5 1 9 at 157 for 5 and a sergeant with a power axe still had to buy the heavy weapons but if you could go for melta gun they would be bad The whole underlying mechanic for playing the game was different in 2nd Edition (when that codex was produced) than it is for 3rd through 5th Edition (which are all essentially the same, with slow evolutionary updates over time, rather than major revolutionary changes). The differences between how the game was played versus how it works now are so significant that you can't really compare the old stat-lines with the new ones. Valerian Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208321-what-happen-to-the-space-wolves/#findComment-2485752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostwolf Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 Indeed, Valerian has it right. Taking a closer look at the statlines from the 2nd ed codex will also show that units had a movement characteristic back then. That alone should give you an idea of how valid the comparison is. You'd be better off comparing 3rd ed and 5th ed books as they use the same basic set of rules and doing so will show you that our "new" book is ALL good. (when does it stop being "new" to become our "current" book?) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208321-what-happen-to-the-space-wolves/#findComment-2485760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 I just got the old space wolf codex from 1994 and well we got nefed bad like a wolf lord wasWS BS S T W I A LD points 7 7 5 5 3 7 3 10 90 now he is 6 5 4 4 3 5 4 10 100 That was the same for all Space Marine Captains. Codex Veterans back then had WS 5 and BS 5. For 3rd Edition GW changed how all Marines are represented in game, not just Space Wolves. Well, the basic tactical Marines pretty much retained the same profile, but Veterans and officiers were lowered in stats. Space Marine Captains were lowered from WS/BS 7 and S/T 5 to WS/BS 5 and S/T 4. Only with the lates Codex were Captains increased to WS 6. Space Wolves were different in that their squads had one additional WS over other Marine units, but back then WS worked a bit different from how it does not. When GW lowered the WS for Captains down from 7 to just one better than regular Marines, they also lowered the Space Wolves' above average WS down to the average 4, as the difference was not supposed to be quite as big as that between regular Marines (WS 4) and Captaons (now WS 5). Instead they got the "counter attack" special rule and sure grip in 3rd Edition to still give them higher close combat capabilities. Would you prefer them with WS 5 if you had to give up the CCW and "counter attack"? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208321-what-happen-to-the-space-wolves/#findComment-2485775 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilbob Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 If you want see the biggest change from 2nd to 5th, you should look at vehicle data sheets. I sure don't miss those days. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208321-what-happen-to-the-space-wolves/#findComment-2485858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 If you want see the biggest change from 2nd to 5th, you should look at vehicle data sheets. I sure don't miss those days. But... but... what about my D20s to penetrate with Lascannons. Seriously- d20+90 would crack open those monoliths no problemo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208321-what-happen-to-the-space-wolves/#findComment-2485871 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilbob Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 True, but now I can leave all my d20s, 8s, and 4s securely with my D&D stuff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208321-what-happen-to-the-space-wolves/#findComment-2485876 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 what happened to the Space Wolves? Nothing bad, I can assure you. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208321-what-happen-to-the-space-wolves/#findComment-2486134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfpack Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 except where as 'the Leman Russ having seen eons of service as a mainstay with ALL imeprial forces.." was removed from our codex...thus causing me to have to find a new home for two models that I spent hours painting and modeling I hate it when GW does something dumb like this... on the other hand they did give us the extra LF slot and open up the other LR variants... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208321-what-happen-to-the-space-wolves/#findComment-2486175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranwulf Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 Before the game was different, and serious, after 16 years, thinks would seriously change, just check other 2nd Ed. Codices to understand. Ow, yeah, and if I remember correctly, SM were A LOT more elite units back them. Ran Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208321-what-happen-to-the-space-wolves/#findComment-2486567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain fabian Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 Yeah in general things have become easier and less complicated so that 12 year old noob kids can play the game. :down: I'd prefer a GH pack being half my army and able to slaughter the universe, but I believe the Codex is one of the most solid books with the curent rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208321-what-happen-to-the-space-wolves/#findComment-2486575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 Yeah in general things have become easier and less complicated so that 12 year old noob kids can play the game. :down: I'd prefer a GH pack being half my army and able to slaughter the universe, but I believe the Codex is one of the most solid books with the curent rules. Hey! ... I was a 12 year old kid playing 2nd ed. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208321-what-happen-to-the-space-wolves/#findComment-2486590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain fabian Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 I'm sorry for insulting a longer fanged Wolf. On a serious note I mean that GW's policy leans more towards the toy aspect for kids with easier rules and less towards the wargaming thing. But I may be horribly wrong. You should be proud for playing 2ed though with only 12 winters on your back. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208321-what-happen-to-the-space-wolves/#findComment-2486633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranwulf Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 I'm sorry for insulting a longer fanged Wolf. On a serious note I mean that GW's policy leans more towards the toy aspect for kids with easier rules and less towards the wargaming thing. But I may be horribly wrong. You should be proud for playing 2ed though with only 12 winters on your back. I don't know, easy is not the same as "For KIDZ", usually is for casual gamers, and starters, not forgetting, that most of Warhammer 40000 players are surely NOT kids, because they have difficult either buying the game, or learning how to play it. Hey, but it's your opnion so, altough I disagree with it, I still respect it (yes, I am being polite in the internet and that is weird). ran Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208321-what-happen-to-the-space-wolves/#findComment-2486648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain fabian Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 I'm not polite in the internet either but here I have to, since you are too. You may be right my friend. But think about this. Why does the same not apply to WHFB? In my opinion(again) it has a TON of rules and THIS is where casual gamers are and starters have to learn more. I think it has a more ''professional'' feel to it and it helps keep our little friends away(which is good) while keeping the interest high. Ahh..... nevermind. Enough of this. Sorry for the off topic posts Wolves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208321-what-happen-to-the-space-wolves/#findComment-2486664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Yeah in general things have become easier and less complicated so that 12 year old noob kids can play the game. :P I'd prefer a GH pack being half my army and able to slaughter the universe, but I believe the Codex is one of the most solid books with the curent rules. Being a conceited, elitist :) ruins the game for everyone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208321-what-happen-to-the-space-wolves/#findComment-2486823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 ... and moving on. Seriously, 2nd ed was the time when I saw a bunch of orks put to dancing to summon daemonic reinforcements for a a chaos army.. and when witchblades were power weapons and a farseer could project his ghost 24" to kill your squad without fear of being hit back. The days when Grots were feared, as caltrops. When I faced an army based around cardboard ork dreadnaughts- that were official GW miniatures. When, dare I say it- GW still allowed other companies in White Dwarf. It was in short a time of madness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208321-what-happen-to-the-space-wolves/#findComment-2486826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coverfire Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 I started playing Space Wolves during second edition, and have been playing Space Wolves ever since. But Second Edition Orks was the army I loved to play against... apart from when fielding near entire armies of mecha-armoured nobz. I loved their Rocket Packs... roll 2 dice, get a double... boom! I loved their battle wagons... Yes you can fit as many orks into that wagon as long as you can place them on the model, one fell off?? str 4 hit -1 amour. I liked second edition shooting. "I can see you guy Ragnar's elbow." "Well since you are shooting into a window and through three pieces of terrain, there will be a modifier to emphasize the differculty of the shot. Long range -2 over, and four pieces of terrain that will be 7+ to hit on a D6" *Rolls* "nice shooting" I'll take my armour save" *fail* "okay then cover save" *fail* "fine... I'll use my displacement field" *Fail* "okay then... lucky last Ragnar's Dodge" *Success* I liked overwatch, I liked our Space Wolf characters that never made it to third, Kril Grimblood and co. I especially liked that one of the characters we could field was actually already dead. In his fluff it spoke of his heroic last stand against Orks and how they respected his fighting ability so much that they didn't desecrate his body in dead. I DIDN'T LIKE CLOSE COMBAT!! to even offer a brief explanation for the close combat system would be too time consuming and trying to dredge it up after a lifetime is a bit much for me tonight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208321-what-happen-to-the-space-wolves/#findComment-2486908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiem of the Wolf Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 I think it is a good thing that younglings are able to get into the game. One of the happiest moments I have had in this hobby was when my eldest son said he wanted to play Space Wolves. One of the proudest was when he did his first practice game with me,and played better then many much older players have done. We have a couple 'kids' at our local game store..ranging from I think 14 to 16...and both of them are great kids and doing fairly well. Though one does have a tendency to be a bit scatter brained and not pay attention to things... I think its great that kids can get into this game and enjoy it. I have played against kids and win or lose,they have performed better and behaved with far more sportsmanship then many adults I have played against. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208321-what-happen-to-the-space-wolves/#findComment-2486914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macharim Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 This ed of 40K works so well because of one thing, even though it's easy to understand (and play) a better player will still have the advantage. A minute to learn and a lifetime to master describes it quite well. WHFB used to be a a lifetime to learn and a lifetime to master, now it's a lifetime to learn and 30 secs to master. But it's to our benefit, playing people of all ages is fun. I even got corrected on something I'd been doing wrong by a 13-year old the other day :ph34r:. As for SW I agree with those saying that it's probably one of the most solid codexes out there and it's solid in a way as to not feel unfair like some of our old ones. First codex had such fun stuff as WG being all IC and able to customise gear completely. They were a bit unbalanced...... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208321-what-happen-to-the-space-wolves/#findComment-2486919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjaco Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 The longer I play the game, the more I like just modeling and painting. Rules, yeah great. Okay, I dont do the whole tourney thing. I just do friendly games anymore. Saw a fist fight in a parking lot over one tourney. Forget it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208321-what-happen-to-the-space-wolves/#findComment-2486934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfpack Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 I began playin in the good ole days of RT...bot programming, vehicle movement overlays, vortex grenades...SM and gaurd were one...and yes cardboard models (or paper proxies)...stacked books for terrain...LMAO...I still have the second edition and some of my RT rules here somewhere...I have seen the game progress through many changes...and even seen some of the fluff change midstream which kinda set me off at times...but the overall feel of my beloved pups has not changed and with some properly phrased prayers to Russ and the Allfather here's hoping GW doesn't neuter them to the point I finally say, "GW go to (expletive) and kiss my (expletive)!!!" as was the case with 3rd edition fantasy... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208321-what-happen-to-the-space-wolves/#findComment-2487114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Yeah in general things have become easier and less complicated so that 12 year old noob kids can play the game. :P Excuse me, but a lot of 12 year olds can bring new insights and greater deal of imagination to the game than a lot of 20+ year olds that I’ve met who are intent of following fluff to the letter and even saying that it’s impossible to have a Space Marine army who isn’t of, say, SW blood to play SW rules. When I started, I was 10, and I managed to beat a 24 year old in 4 turns. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208321-what-happen-to-the-space-wolves/#findComment-2487153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tchaumau Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Yeah in general things have become easier and less complicated so that 12 year old noob kids can play the game. :P I'd prefer a GH pack being half my army and able to slaughter the universe, but I believe the Codex is one of the most solid books with the curent rules. iirc: I remember my 1st game vs a roommate playing SW: SW Lord: Termi-armor, Frezon, Combat Drugs, Power Weapons, X-item, Y-item, XY-item ... etc.. You rolled 2d6 to get past Termi-armor and then rolled to get past a power field .... Then he attacks, with bonus attacks, that reroll hit and reroll damage ... etc. Characters could and would solo squads , easily, back in 2nd ed.. Who remembers missing with heavy weapons like Plasma cannons and then rolling to see where the shot went? So as others have said, big changes in the rules to make the game more "new player friendly". But those changes hit everyone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/208321-what-happen-to-the-space-wolves/#findComment-2487271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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