Sanguniary Guard + Dante and ranged weapons

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Sanguinary guard with Dante attached is an expensive combo. But most lists with Dante are going to include some SG due to him making them troops anyway.

 

As we all know, SG are sort of an odd unit. 2+ but no invul, no extra attack from pistol but mastercrafted power weapon and and 2 shots on the way in instead of 1. They are unlike any other unit in the game. The common opinion of them is that they are an elite CC specialist that is crippled due to small squad size and lack of invul saves. However, I am going to propose that they aren't. They are a hybrid CC and short range shooting unit. They are extremely efficient for what they get, rivaled only by codex SS+TH terminators in what you get vs their price per guy. SS+TH terminators are handicapped by their speed and lack of range, SG are handicapped by their lack of invuls and fixed squad size.

 

Sanguinary guard get some really nasty short range weaponry for a lower price than most people pay (similar to chaos termies and sternguard and their combi weapons.) SG are not going to take on most other CC specialists in a pure CC fight. But if we factor in their shooting and speed then they just might. With their speed, SG are usually going to pick their fights. And that means they get the charge, and so get to shoot. The Angelus boltgun is good for a few solid wounds on the way in, but there aren't really all that many cc units with 4+ saves (genestealers maybe?) What I am considering is that it may be worth taking advantage of their reduced pistol prices and loading the whole unit out with plasma/infernus pistols. Against Meqs and Teqs you'll often be looking at wiping half a squad or so with just shooting. That will easily be the difference between SG winning against other CC threats (like terminators or death company) or just getting wiped by power weapons.

 

There are two other reasons to do this: Deepstriking and Dante. When DSing, you get to shoot. A squad with 5 pistols is running you in the 250-300 pt range. But if you are hitting the right target, then you could make that amount back just on the deepstrike with shooting. Anybody who has run chaos combi-terminators is already familiar with this concept. Sure you probably have to be blowing up a landraider to do that, but you are probably going to have the squad survive as well.

 

Now, let's get back to where this post started: Dante. He first gives you the ability to place your squad anywhere you want with no scatter. That'll easily make the difference between 1d6 and 2d6 armor pen on your infernus pistols. And then his other rule: Hit and run. The ability to leave combat is great because then you get to charge every turn and you don't get stuck being ground down. But it is often overlooked that you get to shoot every turn as well. With hit and run, you could be firing off your squads full load of pistols every combat round. That's going to add up to a lot of shots for wargear that costs relatively little.

 

So, is there any reason not to take advantage of those cheaper pistols and load SG out? Maybe not 5, but certainly three or four of em? Can anyone with experience on this comment?

[Wildfire]

Hmm. I hadn't noticed that SG could take pistols. Those pistols could be worth it just for the extra attack.

[Morticon]

The glaives are two handed- no extra dice!

[Zealadin]

I am actually suprised we didn't see that issue FAQ'd so that upgrading to the pistol choices did lend an additional attack.

 

Regardless I'm thinking along similar lines at the moment but it would involve me working on a seperate SG army list.

Its definately a fun concept but I'm still trying to figure out how to overcome certain hurdles <_<

[Morollan]

The glaives are two handed- no extra dice!

 

Not sure why you're pointing this out. I think he's talking about whether the pistols are worth it for their shooting power, not their CC effectiveness.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

The glaives are two handed- no extra dice!

 

Not sure why you're pointing this out. I think he's talking about whether the pistols are worth it for their shooting power, not their CC effectiveness.

 

He said it in response to the poster directly above him, who implied that you could get extra attacks if you had a pistol instead of the angelus boltgun.

[Morollan]

D'oh! Somehow missed that post completely. My apologies.

[Wildfire]

Dang, you're right Mort. That sucks. Seriously, half the reason I don't like SG is due to the completely stupid rules for that weapon. Who gives an elite squad an SCCW that's worse than a power weapon? It's plain annoying.

 

That and the winged jetpack look. Yech.

[coteaz40001]

The lead squad in my SG 2000pt list is:

Dante

Sanguinary Priest w/ power wpn

5 Infernus pistols and the Chapter Banner.

 

This Squad hits like a hammer. I use them to hunt monstrous creatures, take out dangerous armor, and pick on scary units of infantry like Death Co.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I use Dante with SG. check out my BoLScon batreps for some good pointers. I always deepstrike the unit.

 

0b :(

[GlauG]

I'm convinced. I might try kitting up some SG with the pistol upgrades and see what a difference it makes. Ironically, this makes them idea for taking out small, elite units with no invun save... :D

[DIKU]

I'm in the same boat as you Drudge, I have a Sanguinary Guard unit that I love that I've been trying to make as competitive as possible.

 

When compared to our other CC specialists, you're not going to get 5 JP models with PWs for 200 pts flat. The downside is that they do not have the means to stick around long enough to make PF's a reliable option (no invul saves). This in my mind makes FC a MUST. Which means you have to have a priest nearby (I usually have one in the unit because they have a tendency to get separated from the rest of the army). It also means that the best way to get high strength attacks in is through the IPs when you charge as this is more damage you dish out before your opponent strikes back.

 

This is the role that I think the Sang Guard play. A surgical CC unit that does as much damage as possible on the charge then uses Dante's hit and run rule to jump out of prolonged combats to get off another charge during your turn. This role has worked for me against horde, MEQs, and mech armies bc they can also use Dante's Tactical Precision to pop tanks with fair reliability.

 

I would only DS them if i were playing a tank heavy force because they can get into combat much faster on the ground.

 

However, I ran into a problem with monstrous creatures that could survive even the flurry str 5 PW attacks long enough to swing back and clear out the unit (mainly Trygon Primes, and the various Tyranid deathstar combos who happen to be my regular opponents)

 

This prompted me to add Astorath to the unit. a Librarian with sanguine sword could work as well, but i liked Astorath's other perks. This made for an almost stupidly expensive unit but hey, the banner just gets better and better with each IC I cram in there.

 

In the game I played last night, this unit cleared out two trygons and a tervigon. Then Astorath split to take out 2 zoanthropes, while Dante and company cleared out a squad of gaunts to claim their objective at the end of turn 5.

 

I would like to find a way to make the squad cheaper, but this has been my most successful build (with Astorath really only being necessary against nidzilla lists):

 

Dante

225

 

Astorath

220

 

Sanguinary Priest

Jump Pack

75

 

Sanguinary Guard

Banner

Inferno Pistols (x2)

Power Fist

260

 

780 pts total

(560 without Astorath)

 

hope this helps

[rodgambit]

Has there been a ruling as to which Initiative you use with Dante's hit and run? Do you use his I6 or the unit's majority?

[Dezartfox]

When I had my sang guard, I ran two special weapon squads, and 2 normal squads

 

dantes squad had the banner, 3 infernus pistols and a fist. They were joined by a priest with a hand flamer.

 

Second squad was 5 plsma pistols and a powerfist, they'd be close to a priest.

 

Third and 4th squads were 1 infernus pistol and a fist. They'd have a priest each.

 

I found the plasma squad to never do much, just luck though.

 

Melta squad were awesome.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I found the plasma squad to never do much, just luck though.

 

This was the next thing I was wondering about. Is there ever a point to taking plasma over infernus pistols? I don't see many situations where the extra range is particularly useful. Sigh, I don't understand why GW has made plasma pistols universally crappy.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Sanguinary Guard

Banner

Inferno Pistols (x2)

Power Fist

260

 

This is my favorite build.

 

0b

[Redo]

Sanguinary Guard

Banner

Inferno Pistols (x2)

Power Fist

260

 

This is my favorite build.

 

0b :ph34r:

 

I reckon that this would be my favourite build too. 2 Pistols for tank busting etc and a PF for insurance and the Banner for the extra punch.

and yes it is such a shame that they are not one handed power pistols...

[SnorriSnorrison]

I still think that the Powerfist is a waste of points and of potential. In a game that I played yesterday, my Sanguinary Guard and their Priest(with JP only) slaughtered about 600 pts worth of Tacs, Kantor and Terminators, along with a Rhino. If they had a Powerfist, they would have been killed before even wiping out their first Tactical squad.

If the Powerfist is needed, then something went horribly wrong...and those units striking with init 1 will probably slaughter your guard if they survive, so it might be better to make sure that those units never get to swing.

 

In my opinion and from my experience, the SG need to strike at first, therefore a Sanguinary Priest is required. And because of their JP, they are able to choose their fights.

With Dante, they are an even better shock unit, hitting hart and falling back again, but if you choose to drop them in your opponent´s deployment zone on turn 2, they won´t survive until turn 3.

For that pricey unit, it might be better to jump towards the enemy and form the spearhead of your assault. Cover them with Tanks, use Vanguards to take out shooty units or at least keep them busy, while your long-ranged weapons damage tanks and other threats to your core army. When Dante is joining them, they will be a primary target for your opponent, so make sure they are in cover.

 

 

 

Snorri

[Redo]

If the Powerfist is needed, then something went horribly wrong...and those units striking with init 1 will probably slaughter your guard if they survive, so it might be better to make sure that those units never get to swing.

 

Snorri

 

I don't think that you have a bad point but I tend to think that losing 4xS5 Powerweapon attacks is a great trade off for 4xS9 Powerfist attacks. Adds versatility in case it is needed, works well with the Angelus Bolter. instant kills many a problem character and in case something goes 'horribly wrong' it tends to sort out a lot of problems.

 

I tend to find in this world of winged Daemon Princes, Hive Tyrants and other fast and manourvable enemies that it is not always so easy to pick your battles, though I do agree that you definately have to try and pick your battles as best as you can and give them cover.

[coteaz40001]

A power fist isn't bad in SG units. It prevents some one from throwing a dreadnought on you and just stomping the squad over 4 turns.

 

And I take plasma pistols because there are units like the Eldar Avatar that can't be hurt by melta weapons, and Dark Eldar Night Shields that reduce your range by 6 inches. Meaning you cant shoot your infernus Pistols at them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

edit: grammar

[Zealadin]

Yea I tend to like the Plasma Pistols, since the 3" range for the melta is pretty hard to do, and the plasma pistols are still good for popping light vehicles and taking out heavy infantry