Wolf Guard and Skyclaws

[wolfpack]

Valerian brought up a point in a previous topic which I had overlooked in the dex and my army list...

 

"8. Can't put a Wolf Guard with your Sky Claws (formally known as Blood Claws with Jump Packs)"

 

I have to wonder...

 

Is this an oversite in the dex as jump packs are a wargear selection for wolf guard...

 

following the tenants of Russ, this seems odd as 'if fighting on the ground was good enough for our Primarch' would mean that no Wolf Guard would consider this unless they were joining a Skyclaw pack...as I don't see a whole pack of Wolf Guard taking jump packs unless they were mad...

 

why would GW include the jump pack to their wargear list unless they WERE able to join Skyclaw packs as they would any other?

 

I have not seen any FAQ's for the new dex...nor have I found any Errata on it to suggest any answer to this question...

 

Any Ideas?

[jmurph]

Just one of the quirks of the codex and another reason why taking bloodclaws of any type isn't so hot this time around.

[Wysten]

Just so you can make Jet Packed Wolf Guard if you wanted to? Thats pretty much the only reason it's there.

 

That being said, not a whole not of point to it or bikes. Since they can't join Swiftclaws either for some reason. For either one of them you could buy 1.5/almost 2 wolf guard for the cost it takes to upgrade them. I would not give them either, considering a Rhino is perfectly valid with counter charge. Might of been nice to put wolf guard in those units for better leadership, but otherwise... May as well buy twice as many skyclaws so theres more boy going towards them. XD

[Grey Mage]

You can add them to Swiftclaw packs.

 

The 53pt price tag before any weapons is a bit off putting I admit, but you can do it atleast.

[Wysten]

Ahh, my bad, for some reason they never stick in my mind. Heh.

 

Though I guess one 53 for leadership perposes is not too bad. More then 2 basic swiftclaws though.

[Karack Blackstone]

Let's see, a fist, JP and a WG should add up to ... 63 pts.

 

Not sure I'd even use that, although a cheap PFist on a BC may not hit as well, since they go so well with a WP. It's the question of the WS and the higher number of base attacks in subsequent rounds that would make it viable.

 

Sadly, this is a moot point since we cannot, according to the Codex, and no entry in the FAQ's say otherwise.

[Vlk]

I say use Wolf Priests. I began using a Swiftclaw pack with a WP and they are absolutely murderous.

[wolfpack]

Well before anyone goes speculating I just wanted to let you know that the great and powerful rules guru's at GW don't know either...other than to say..."perhaps the WG just decided he liked the idea of closing with the enemy a bit faster and not sharing his glory with pups who's fangs had grown no longer than a dogs"...go figure...LMAO

 

so WG pack with jump packs....hmmm play the rules as they are?

[jmurph]

I say use Wolf Priests. I began using a Swiftclaw pack with a WP and they are absolutely murderous.

Only way to make them worth much, really (same is true of bloodclaws). Unfortunately, also pretty pricey. It's too bad our jump troops and bikes are so bad compared to other chapters, but such is life. At least we have other good FA choices like thunder wolves!

[Grey Mage]

See, and I run my Swiftclaws with a Rune Priest for the mobility on psychic defense and stormcaller to nearby friendlies or a bit of extra dakka.

[hendrik]

am i the only one who likes this fluff in our new dex?these are the guys who are so untrustable(rebellious) and reckless noone really likes them(atleast that's how i interpretend it). if you were a wolf guard and would be assigned to lead a pack, how would you handle a pack that's constantly rebellios against your authority?

[Grey Mage]

am i the only one who likes this fluff in our new dex?these are the guys who are so untrustable(rebellious) and reckless noone really likes them(atleast that's how i interpretend it). if you were a wolf guard and would be assigned to lead a pack, how would you handle a pack that's constantly rebellios against your authority?

By backhanding them. Then, once I had their attention Id tell them to drop their chainswords and bolt pistols in the corner, and take off their armor. I would do the same, and have them line up in a half circle in front me to talk to them.

 

Then I would prove to them that I was not only older and wiser but also the bad ass unforgiving and ruthless god of their existance. All 20 of them. By beating the ever loving crap out of them until they all fell down.

 

This would be repeated every 6 hours until the whelps got the idea- the beatings will continue until morale improves.

 

*cough* not that I ever did this in middle school *cough*

 

Considering that there should only be 10 or so of them, it might not even be worthy of mention in the feasting hall that night.

[Wildfire]

Let's see, a fist, JP and a WG should add up to ... 63 pts.

 

Not sure I'd even use that, although a cheap PFist on a BC may not hit as well, since they go so well with a WP. It's the question of the WS and the higher number of base attacks in subsequent rounds that would make it viable.

 

Oh, I absolutely would. 6 powerfist attacks on the charge is pretty damn good, especially considering the whole pack would only cost 280 or so.

 

My biggest complaint about the new SW 'dex is that they've lost the ability to take lots of power weapons/fists in squads. Combined with losing an attack from power fists, it really changed their specialty from a specialized anti-MEq CC army to a countercharging Sisters style. Not that Wolves are bad these days, but their focus has been changing. Basically, BA and SW have swapped places.

 

By backhanding them. Then, once I had their attention Id tell them to drop their chainswords and bolt pistols in the corner, and take off their armor. I would do the same, and have them line up in a half circle in front me to talk to them.

 

What middle school did you go to, that they had weapons and armor to take off?

[Grey Mage]

What middle school did you go to, that they had weapons and armor to take off?

It was a joke.

 

I did get into a number of fights in primary school, but no power armor was ever present, sadly.

[Wildfire]

What middle school did you go to, that they had weapons and armor to take off?

It was a joke.

 

So was my comment.

[Grey Mage]

What middle school did you go to, that they had weapons and armor to take off?

It was a joke.

 

So was my comment.

I blame these distracting egg rolls.

[Valerian]

am i the only one who likes this fluff in our new dex?these are the guys who are so untrustable(rebellious) and reckless noone really likes them(atleast that's how i interpretend it). if you were a wolf guard and would be assigned to lead a pack, how would you handle a pack that's constantly rebellios against your authority?

By backhanding them. Then, once I had their attention Id tell them to drop their chainswords and bolt pistols in the corner, and take off their armor. I would do the same, and have them line up in a half circle in front me to talk to them.

 

Then I would prove to them that I was not only older and wiser but also the bad ass unforgiving and ruthless god of their existance. All 20 of them. By beating the ever loving crap out of them until they all fell down.

 

This would be repeated every 6 hours until the whelps got the idea- the beatings will continue until morale improves.

 

Considering that there should only be 10 or so of them, it might not even be worthy of mention in the feasting hall that night.

 

Yeah, that's about right. Any veteran that can't keep a dozen Blood Claws in line doesn't need to be a Wolf Guard.

 

Anyway, it is what it is. GW produced a FAQ/Errata a long time ago and didn't do anything to change it, so we are stuck with the options that we've got in the book. I'd love to have a "book-signing" type of event where we could ask Phil Kelley and the other folks who worked on our codex with him, questions about "why" certain things are the way they are in the codex, what the playtesting was like, and what the thinking was that lead to some of the results. Failing that, I'd appreciate it if the designers would go back through periodically and continue to update the FAQ/Errata documents (it's not like everything that is problematic was fixed or answered the first time around).

 

I don't like it either, but I just stick a Wolf Priest with my Sky Claws and move on.

 

 

V

[Crimson Devil]

I feel it is pretty straight forward in the text. Being "Promoted" to a Skyclaw pack is a punishment the Skyclaws are to stupid to understand. No Wolf Lord is going to waste a precious Wolf Guard leading these morons to their deaths. The ones that survive might mature into something more than cannon fodder, and it is probably a source of shame to those that did serve in one in later years.

[jmurph]

But it's not always pure punishment- it is also some place to keep the more reckless BCs useful. And some seem to like it! Likewise, WG can take JPs, so presumably some are of a similar mentality. It seems like there would be some WG, then, well suited to lead an unruly skyclaw pack (just like the ones who lead Swiftclaws). However, the codex doesn't allow it. Which is a shame because 1) It makes sense conceptually and 2) it would probably make skyclaws more useful and seen on the battlefield. But BCs got no love this time around.

[Crimson Devil]

I disagree. Your thinking of them as Blood Claws with jump packs. They aren't, they're troublemakers. Skyclaws behave in such a manner that even Space Wolves balk at it. No marine worth promoting to the Wolf Guard would still act like a Skyclaw. If a Skyclaw does well, you pat him on the back, give him an ale and send him back to his Blood Claw unit. Lesson learned. A Skyclaw pack is like a reform school, prison boot camp, etc., the fact that some of them can't see it just makes them cannon fodder. They may have been tough enough to make it though the marine making process, but they won't survive long in combat. Or worse get Good marines killed. So put them where they can do the most good; meat shield/shock troops.

[hendrik]

I disagree. Your thinking of them as Blood Claws with jump packs. They aren't, they're troublemakers. Skyclaws behave in such a manner that even Space Wolves balk at it. No marine worth promoting to the Wolf Guard would still act like a Skyclaw. If a Skyclaw does well, you pat him on the back, give him an ale and send him back to his Blood Claw unit. Lesson learned. A Skyclaw pack is like a reform school, prison boot camp, etc., the fact that some of them can't see it just makes them cannon fodder. They may have been tough enough to make it though the marine making process, but they won't survive long in combat. Or worse get Good marines killed. So put them where they can do the most good; meat shield/shock troops.

exactly my thought, beside the getting put back to their original BC pack.

the dex to me strenghtens this by mentioning the punishment for getting a senior member killed. why else would one mention it if it hasen't occured before/frequently?

[hendrik]

I disagree. Your thinking of them as Blood Claws with jump packs. They aren't, they're troublemakers. Skyclaws behave in such a manner that even Space Wolves balk at it. No marine worth promoting to the Wolf Guard would still act like a Skyclaw. If a Skyclaw does well, you pat him on the back, give him an ale and send him back to his Blood Claw unit. Lesson learned. A Skyclaw pack is like a reform school, prison boot camp, etc., the fact that some of them can't see it just makes them cannon fodder. They may have been tough enough to make it though the marine making process, but they won't survive long in combat. Or worse get Good marines killed. So put them where they can do the most good; meat shield/shock troops.

exactly my thought, beside the getting put back to their original BC pack.

the dex to me strenghtens this by mentioning the punishment for getting a senior member killed. why else would one mention it if it hasen't occured before/frequently?

[Schertenleib]

So the Skyclaws are the Space Wolves version of the Forlorn Hope, Interesting.....

[hendrik]

the following quote does imply that in some way, atleast to my opinion;

"If they are so eager to die, and they will not heed the advice of their superiors, then let them rush headlong into the jaws of the lion. We can only hope some of them get caught in its throat."

p32 bottom-corner

 

to me this indicates they just won't listen to a wolfguard, no matter how many beatings they get, they just won't listen to them

[Karack Blackstone]

the following quote does imply that in some way, atleast to my opinion;

"If they are so eager to die, and they will not heed the advice of their superiors, then let them rush headlong into the jaws of the lion. We can only hope some of them get caught in its throat."

p32 bottom-corner

 

to me this indicates they just won't listen to a wolfguard, no matter how many beatings they get, they just won't listen to them

 

I think the point being made here is that the, "Headstrong" rule took too well into these Blood Claws. Therefore, slap a jump pack on them and send them at the enemy to die or learn, seems to be the solution.