the alpha legion

[arcadion]

i've had a brainwave about the alpha legion.. would like to see what ye think ;)

 

some facts:

- the primarchs are called alpharius and omegon

- they are a very covert legion

- they turn to chaos, because of the cabal

 

they turn to chaos after a meeting with the cabal (an alien order)

the cabal wants them to turn chaos because it would bring about the galactic war.

 

now if you look at the primarchs names

alpharius and omegon...... very like alpha and omega. in the bible alpha and omega are refered to as "the beginning and the end"

when alpharius agrees to turn to chaos he says "from this point on... what i do... i do for the emperor"

 

this has got me thinkin.... because alpharius started his legion to chaos.... does omegon save them from chaos? and in turn end the constant fight against the chaos?

are the alpha legion only pretending to be chaos worshipers in some endgame plan to defeat chaos?

 

this idea is supported by the basic fact that the are an extremely covert legion :P

 

ideas are welcome :(

[Kanazuchi]

Welcome to the BnC. The idea that the Alpha Legion may not actually be working for Chaos is a popular one.

 

I, however, have never seen any reason why they would stay covert for 10,000 years. They also operate in such small groups, it would be hard to nail down what the chapter as a whole now believes.

 

The whole "This, I do for the Emperor" line is because Alpharius believes the Cabal when they say that if the Emp wins, humanity will slowly rot over the next 10,000 years, while if Horus wins, humanity will cease to exist in 2 years and take the Chaos powers with them when they go. Which, from a canon standpoint, makes no sense as Slaneesh was birthed from Eldar excesses, so why would he/she be affected by humans?

 

I can't imagine Omegon being anything but a plot device for the Alpha Legion. If he suddenly showed up and "cured" humanity of Chaos, I would systematically burn all my GW and BL materials.

[Vor]

Welcome to the BnC. The idea that the Alpha Legion may not actually be working for Chaos is a popular one.

 

I, however, have never seen any reason why they would stay covert for 10,000 years. They also operate in such small groups, it would be hard to nail down what the chapter as a whole now believes.

 

The whole "This, I do for the Emperor" line is because Alpharius believes the Cabal when they say that if the Emp wins, humanity will slowly rot over the next 10,000 years, while if Horus wins, humanity will cease to exist in 2 years and take the Chaos powers with them when they go. Which, from a canon standpoint, makes no sense as Slaneesh was birthed from Eldar excesses, so why would he/she be affected by humans?

 

I can't imagine Omegon being anything but a plot device for the Alpha Legion. If he suddenly showed up and "cured" humanity of Chaos, I would systematically burn all my GW and BL materials.

 

Think it was 200 years, not 2.

[arcadion]

thanks for the warm welcome :)

 

i just thought it might be a possibility that the series would end with omegon at least leading an effort to purge the chaos from their legion and killing chaos marines.

 

also.. are alpharius and omegon any less powerful than other primarchs?

[Kanazuchi]

thanks for the warm welcome :)

 

i just thought it might be a possibility that the series would end with omegon at least leading an effort to purge the chaos from their legion and killing chaos marines.

 

also.. are alpharius and omegon any less powerful than other primarchs?

 

Vor: Thanks, I think you're right.

 

Arcadion: As far as I know, they've always acquitted themselves just as well as the other Primarchs. The only thing that could really be said about them is that it is implied that they are shorter than most of the other Primarchs as both of them constantly "blend in" with their own Legion. While never actually stated in canon, I can't imagine a 10 foot Primarch "blending in" with 8 foot marines.

[arcadion]

thanks for answering my question :)

 

and you also cleared up another question :D

 

always wondered how tall primarchs were... is the emperor even taller?

[Kanazuchi]

thanks for answering my question :)

 

and you also cleared up another question :D

 

always wondered how tall primarchs were... is the emperor even taller?

 

That HIGHLY depends on who you ask. I've always went by this:

 

Marine - 8'

Alpharius and Omegon - 8.5'?

Custode - 9'

The Emperor - 10'

Primarchs - 10'

Magnus The Red - 13'

 

There is currently a thread going on about this: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=207646

 

But as far as I know, or have seen, there has never been anything officially released by GW to confirm or deny heights.

[arcadion]

thanks :D

 

i always thought of it like this

sm - 8ft (mayb 8.5 at a stretch)

primarch - 10 or 12 ft

emperor - 13 ft

 

 

oh.. last question.. is malcador the sigilite SM, primarch or human sized? :)

[Kanazuchi]

thanks :D

 

i always thought of it like this

sm - 8ft (mayb 8.5 at a stretch)

primarch - 10 or 12 ft

emperor - 13 ft

 

 

oh.. last question.. is malcador the sigilite SM, primarch or human sized? :)

 

That's another unknown. Sometimes, in artwork, Malcador is shown coming up to the Emperor's chest. If that were the case, he would definitely be taller than a normal human being. As far as I know, he was an extremely powerful human psyker that gave his last breath to breathe life back into the Emperor after his battle with Horus. I believe, from everything I've read, that he is human sized.

[overlordjebus]

thanks :)

 

i always thought of it like this

sm - 8ft (mayb 8.5 at a stretch)

primarch - 10 or 12 ft

emperor - 13 ft

 

 

oh.. last question.. is malcador the sigilite SM, primarch or human sized? ^_^

 

That's another unknown. Sometimes, in artwork, Malcador is shown coming up to the Emperor's chest. If that were the case, he would definitely be taller than a normal human being. As far as I know, he was an extremely powerful human psyker that gave his last breath to breathe life back into the Emperor after his battle with Horus. I believe, from everything I've read, that he is human sized.

 

In The Lightning Tower (Are audio books canon btw?), the arcitect helping Dorn build the imperial palace is taller then him because his family were bred to be tall over thousands of years, maybe Malcador is just another very tall human?

[Kanazuchi]

In The Lightning Tower (Are audio books canon btw?), the arcitect helping Dorn build the imperial palace is taller then him because his family were bred to be tall over thousands of years, maybe Malcador is just another very tall human?

 

From what I understand, BL is -not- canon, though fans are considering it to be. I think it is more of a "its canon unless we (GW) want to change something."

[quiethood]

If I'm not mistaken, the book says that the Alpha Legion marines are taller than most, so I don't think it's a question of the primarchs being smaller. And artwork isn't something to go on, really. I think sometimes the artists take liscense, and paint the "legend" of the man and not the man itself. Human history is full of artful imbellishments, why would the year 30,000 be any different.

I believe it can also be said that the Alpha Legion do things for the Alpha Legion. They choose their paths. They may or may not fight for the Emperor, now, but they do fight on their own terms. They hate others trying to control them. I think we will have to wait for another novel about them before we can really make assumptions about what they do in 40k. I believe now they fight everyone, trying to guide humanity on some course that only they know.

But if the old fluff is anything to go on, then Alpharius Omegon is still kickin, and he's probably on Ultramar taunting and dancing in front of Guilliman's stasis field going, "nennar-nennar! HA! HA! How's that codex working for you now?"

[Kanazuchi]

If I'm not mistaken, the book says that the Alpha Legion marines are taller than most, so I don't think it's a question of the primarchs being smaller. And artwork isn't something to go on, really. I think sometimes the artists take liscense, and paint the "legend" of the man and not the man itself. Human history is full of artful imbellishments, why would the year 30,000 be any different.

I believe it can also be said that the Alpha Legion do things for the Alpha Legion. They choose their paths. They may or may not fight for the Emperor, now, but they do fight on their own terms. They hate others trying to control them. I think we will have to wait for another novel about them before we can really make assumptions about what they do in 40k. I believe now they fight everyone, trying to guide humanity on some course that only they know.

But if the old fluff is anything to go on, then Alpharius Omegon is still kickin, and he's probably on Ultramar taunting and dancing in front of Guilliman's stasis field going, "nennar-nennar! HA! HA! How's that codex working for you now?"

 

The same could be said about the book you're pulling your example from. I've known some books to picture marines as invincible while others have them picked up by Imperial Guard as easy as a duck. Others have them ripped apart Titans with their barehands (an exaggeration). As usual, for answers where there are none with GW, we must combine all the pieces of fluff we have and conjure up an answer from there.

 

I'd be interested to know if anyone could confirm/deny them saying the Alpha Legion was taller than most. I don't recall that in the book and I don't have a copy with me.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

It was in their Index Astartes article, actually. I don't have it handy, but there's a line there about how the Alphas were taller and stronger than some other Marines. It makes sense if you think about it -- they were the last legion founded, so they would have plenty of time to streamline the process and work out all of the kinks that would later lead to impurities like the ImpFists' loss of the betcher's gland and sus-an membrance as well as make sure that this last batch, as it were, were physically perfect.

 

And I'd also like to throw in that the Alpha Marines being taller than normal Marines would make just as much sense as Alpharius and Omegon being shorter than the other Primarchs; either way, it allowed the Primarchs to blend in with their troopers and the exceptionally tall Marines (like Sheed Ranko) to stand in for the Primarch.

[Captain Idaho]

Or it could be a lie that they are "tall and strong, reminiscent of their Primarch", as everything we know of them supposedly is :)

[Kanazuchi]

It was in their Index Astartes article, actually. I don't have it handy, but there's a line there about how the Alphas were taller and stronger than some other Marines. It makes sense if you think about it -- they were the last legion founded, so they would have plenty of time to streamline the process and work out all of the kinks that would later lead to impurities like the ImpFists' loss of the betcher's gland and sus-an membrance as well as make sure that this last batch, as it were, were physically perfect.

 

And I'd also like to throw in that the Alpha Marines being taller than normal Marines would make just as much sense as Alpharius and Omegon being shorter than the other Primarchs; either way, it allowed the Primarchs to blend in with their troopers and the exceptionally tall Marines (like Sheed Ranko) to stand in for the Primarch.

 

Excellent point. Didn't think of it that way. :-/

[Horus Lupercal]

In what I've read in the past, it is stated that an Astarte stands at least 2 meters tall, when converted to American measurement, that puts them at 6 foot 6 inches, which I had to laugh at, seeing as I'm 6'4", I either read it in a novel or an older codex.

 

In the states a normal man on average stands at 6 foot even to about 6 foot 2 inches... so either humans got smaller or the writers don't understand what head and shoulders taller than a normal man means...

 

If I were a normal, average man, I would stand at 6'2" therefore if an Astarte was a head and shoulders taller than me, he would stand approx 7'10" to 8', therefore, I ask the question again... what happened to men in the 31st/41st millenium? Or are the writers just bad with measurements?

 

 

Regards,

Horus Lupercal

[Captain Idaho]

I always thought the average man in the west was 5'10", other countries being smaller on average? I'm 6 foot and a half inch as measured by HM Royal Navy and I am taller than most people. In fact, most people, say to me "well I'm 6 foot so you must be 6 foot 2-4" which always makes me laugh!

 

Besides, 6'6 is still big. Remember they are proportionally heavier set than any human, and clad in armour that would probably add a foot.

 

***Edit*** Check here on wikipedia for information on avereage height. Yes it is wikipedia, but it is a good indicator. As you can see not a country in the whole world has an average height of above 5ft 10 except Sweden, and even they do not reach above 6ft.