if you don't like 'em don't worry about 'em

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

ok, so i'm just curious about something. if players don't like certain units why do they always seem to beg some one to find a reason for them to use it. if you don't like the unit, don't use it. if you like the models use them as counts as models to spice the aesthetic up a little bit.

 

but why do people always seem to look for an excuse to use units they admit they don't like or think are useless?

[Jakobus]

I prefer to know the 'best' way to use all units, even if I can't see why I would use a unit (ie The BA Captain) someone may point out a way for me to use them in a new and different way.

Someone may look at the Sang Guard and be unsure if there is a place in their army for an expensive points unit, if they should bother with Death Masks etc.

And if you play the same people often enough they will know your approach to the army and have counters, asking this question should get people thinking in a different mindset.

 

But basically if I ever ask that question I'm looking for a different perspective that isn't my usual approach to the game hence something new

 

 

NB I still haven't been convinced of a reason to take a Captain over a Chaplain

[Volcatus]

Frankly I only see those type of discussions on forums. Conversation at the LGS seems much more relaxed. Since most boards have a slant towards competitive (tournament) play, I think some folks are rather reticent to show a liking for a "sub-optimal" unit. Call it peer pressure. Nobody wants to be flamed for liking a unit that the metagamers have deemed unworthy.

 

Oddly this is in line with my current take on 40k. I began playing 15 years ago (roughly), but went away from the game for a while. I basically skipped 4th Edition. Upon my return I have noticed that the focus now seem to be on optimal builds, min/maxing or whatever term we want to use. Casual play outside the LGS seems to be an anomaly. Well, if one is to believe the internets. :P

 

Thankfully this forum seems to be very casual about power gaming. So my advice to those who look for excuses to use a certain unit; Play with two Captains, and three Sang Guard. Relish in the delight of using the free will that was bestowed upon you by the Emperor.

[Morticon]

Lensoven,

 

I think this stems from the nature of forums.

Basically, the vast majority of us play 40k in a very confined group- globally speaking. Gaming groups very rarely consist of more than 2 or 3 separate groups from separate areas playing.

 

As a result this sometimes leads to stagnation of ideas or affirmation of certain concepts.

 

What i mean by that is, if you and your group of X number of players always play each other, you will develop certain combinations and certain ideas. (This is also how rules issues come about). Then, when you get online, it smashes you into a much broader community with differening concepts other than your own.

 

These ideas may work very well within your area, but may not work well within another area.

You may find yourself giving advice that is immediately scoffed at, not because you are wrong, but because in that players environment your advice would not be relevant.

 

This is the same issue with units.

 

I think a lot of players come online with an idea in their mind about certain units- either good or bad. Then they hear people talking about them in a different way online.

 

They then take the opportunity that the forum provides to ask a question and collate the information in one easy to read (usually) thread.

 

So, for me its not so much the player begging for a reason to use it, rather than some players either seeing how loved it is in their group, but cant see why or loved online and not in their group - and cant see why. The intrawebs make for a great place to actually suss all of it out and see what a greater community has to offer in terms of advice.

 

The other reason I think is because sometimes players may not yet have the wealth of tactical experience and may feel that they have not yet "got" why a unit or unit combo is good. Thats why they ask online.

[the jeske]

ditto to what mort said .

 

ok, so i'm just curious about something. if players don't like certain units why do they always seem to beg some one to find a reason for them to use it. if you don't like the unit, don't use it.

 

well as a gamer I still think that I am a human and not omnipotent . I am blessed with a big community with a lot of testers , some build or set up may slip past us , I still am not arogat enough to say no to builds I have not seen or tested yet [and I dont think I ever will considering am more then 20 years in to the game]. There may well be other ways to find viable unit set ups and viable builds. that is why I always ask for lists or explanation why someone thinks [what in my eyes does not work] unit set up or build is de uber [or plain good].

[thor1234]

The units in all rulebooks were put there for a reason, obivously as others have said, withing your own confined gaming circle a tactic may work great, but when you go and play in a tornemant you find out that paticular combo is rubush in that enviroment, I think every unit has a role to fill and a use.....

on forums it is apparent to me that people put togther 'all comers lists' therefore only the 'best' units make the final cut and other units (like scouts for example) get left at home beacuse we have 'better' choices to fill the general roles, I frequantly play a friend who collects Eldar, he always choices what he likes rather than what might be good to face me with, unfortunatley he has not yet grasped who to use Eldar in this Edition, he was unbeatable in 2nd but stopped playing shortly after 3rd edition was released, because of this I can filed any unit in any combination and make mess of his army, but when I go to my LGC I really struggle with Eldar because of the different approach and tactics that they use

 

aometimes a unit that you previously thought was rubish, can be paired with another unit and turn it into a lethal comabt unit, such as a whole army of CC Scouts and Astrorath

cheap troop units with lots of high strength attacks ad all fearless (or at least a good chance anyway!)

 

its all personal preference, I make it my mission to field every unit at least once even if they may not be the best choice.......

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

i'm not talking about people looking for tactical advice, i'm talking about people who either come on here posting and saying they don't like a unit and want some to basically tell them why they should like it, or people who seem to not have even read the codex asking for people to tell them why to play a unit.

[the jeske]

want some to basically tell them why they should like it

testing a build is around 30-40 hours of work . not everyone has the time for it , not everyone wants to do it . A lot of people like to do , what in MtG is called net decking. they want to be given a list[or a unit set up] with how to use it against other armies/builds or in the case of units different situations/scenarios. people are mostly lazy and beer&pretzel doesnt help here too.

[bulley]

Think people are hitting it on the head.

 

It can be sometimes that people think they've missed a trick, other times its just for someone to stroke their hair and to stay "its ok you can use them ... *insert reason or example*", and that may be all it takes.

 

@volcatus - min/maxing meta game has been around for ages, not just the days of the "beardy" armies, but I used to spend hours and hours and hours going over tiny little bits coaxing the best and balanced out of my armies (especially my SW's and even more so on my woodelves for whammer). Just depends on what circles you come into play.

 

Now days the net is more prominant, when I first played we only ever spoke about the game, no places to post, I've just returned after a 10year gap, and seem to spend more time reading the net about my army than looking @ my army lol.