Fixing the chaos Codex

[Lady_Canoness]

Raptors should be given back their old power of hit and run plus the '-2 Ld when we beat you' thing.

 

I would oppose dropping the price of Cult troops as they are already deadly as is - though Thousand Sons need something that makes them useful against non-power armour opponenets. I would support a higher points cost (say 26 to 27) in return for Thousand Sons having 2-wounds a piece and getting bolters that shoot blast templates. In my mind Thousand Sons would then make sense in armies other than looking pretty.

I use Chaos Marines (and marked Chaos Marines) on a regular basis, so in my mind they don't need a change... though it would be nice to present them as if they were on par with the Cult Marines by giving them something (like vet skills) to represent the bad-ass that comes with being a Chaos Marine.

Berzerkers and Noise Marines are perfect, I think, but the sonic weapons need a slight drop in price.

Plague Marines... well, I really don't use them all that much, so I have nothing to say about them.

[Rain]

Having played both with and against the current CSM codex I find the tempatation to use plague marines excessively is quite high. I think they should have their points value increased by 1-2 per model, while possibly bringing down the cost of the other cult troops. It would be nice to see some variety there, or gods forbid, people using the non cult CSM troops.

Other than that, I would make both obliterators and the daemon prince 0-1 choices in their respective slots while not adjusting their points.

 

Edit: I forgot the Raptors! These guys are obviously portrayed in the fluff as being better than they currently are. Not sure what to do for them though... definitely a point cost reduction at least.

 

You do of course realize that against a reasonably competent player, regular CSM's are about as good as PM's for the cost right? 10 CSM's vs 7 PM's in HtH is more or less a coin flip actually assuming the CSM champ has a fist as they all do, and against soft targets CSM's are better due to their higher amount of attacks. Also, high str and low AP weapons ignore everything that makes PM's special and yet they still cost 23 points when they die. Honestly the main advantage of PM's is that squads below 10 can take 2 special weapons allowing for things like 5 man dual plasma squads that are still fairly survivable. The toughness of PM's is really overstated as normal CSM's can take 3 more bodies for the cost, and against certain opponents a PM squad will actually go down faster than a CSM squad.

 

Overall, although PM's can be quite nice in an otherwise undivided army, an entire army of PM's is quite a bit harder to play than an undivided army of regular CSM's for similar reasons that pure Grey Knights are difficult to play.

 

Edit: Oh and Thousand Sons need to be able to pick their ammo like SM sternguard. They should get something like Inferno Bolts: S4 AP3, Immolator Bolts: S4 AP5 Ignores Cover saves, and Soulseeker bolts: Always wounds on 2+ AP-. This would allow them to actually be good against horde and give them something to kill big things with.

[Brother Nihm]

Old and beaten-to-death topic is old and well, beaten to death.

 

If anyone wants to create their own fandex, kudos to them, but please do so in the Homegrown Rules forum.

If anyone wants to constructively discuss how C:CSM relates to other Codices, please do so in one of the existing threads