Assault squad pistol choice

[Drudge Dreadnought]

The standard assault squad setup is 10 guys, 2 meltas, and a powerfist. The question then is what sort of pistol to give the sergeant? Infernus could be nice to give him some ranged anti tank if you are combat squadding the meltas off on their own to tank hunt. But would a hand flamer be a better choice for more anti horde? I'd assume plasma is out, since they are pretty much never worth it and cost as much as infernus. Does anybody use storm or combat shields?

[Redo]

I find that Storm Shields, Combat Shields bump up the costs all too quickly. I also think that the handflamer is not that useful as anti-horde weapon. The S3 reduces its effectiveness against many hordelike opponents such as Orks, Tyranids and Eldar to a lesser extent. The AP6 is a big drawback against units such as Genestealers and Guard.

 

I actually find it better to go with a Flamer, Melta and Serg. with a PF and Infernus Pistol. Yes the range is less but most times when I am shooting at a vehicle I am also in assault range in case it needs to be finished off or I am hoping to assault the unit that was embarked upon it. As such I have not really found the 6" range to be that much of a drawback whilst I have had the capabilities of a normal flamer. This combo is 10 points more than the regualr 2 melta/PF option but offers more versatility and is the same points costs if you were to place a handflamer on the serg.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I typically run a full squad with two meltaguns and a sergeant with a thunderhammer & stormshield. I attach a Chaplain with a melta pistol. Sometimes I will also attach a Priest with power sword and melta pistol. I think I am going to switch out one of the meltaguns for a flamer. Typically you can get your squad into half range for melta pistols if they have jump packs. I am not a fan of the handflamer since as stated above it's only S3 AP6. It would be nice to have one flamer for riot control though.

 

0b :D

[vharing]

I find that if you already have 2 meltas in the squad as well as a PF having an infernus pistol is kind of pointless. the meltas will have taken out the tank long before you will be in range for the pistol, and by that point you may as well just assault with the fist. I generally find it best to give my sargs PF and plasma pistol or storm bolter

[Drudge Dreadnought]

The advantage of 2x melta over melta+flamer comes when combat squadding. A double melta combat squad is a nice tank hunting unit. A single melta or melta+flamer is not. This is also the advantage of the infernus pistol in that it leaves you with some ranged AV when your meltas are off tank hunting.

[mysteriousmaskedmystery]

except the pistol has to be touching the thing to hurt it, and it's more than the standard melta, too expensive for what it does.

 

a storm shield is a decent choice, but a lot of the time, it won't get any use, cause you're not going to put any wounds on the sergeant you dont' absolutely have to.

[bloodancient]

I go with a PS on the serg. a hand flamer and infernus pistol in the squad. Why because thats BA. I know you think str 3 ap 6 SUCKS. nope clears half a squad of chaos marines in a heart beat no pics just take my word works awesome and noone sees it coming then you charge through them after the bolt pistols and that great Ipistol. oh yea and screw using it against armor shot that thing into the midst of anything it cuts'em down like grass and your the lawn mower and after this glorious shooting phase you get to close the distance and everyone gets an extra attack for having 2 weapons. You have the only army that gets both these weapons right(well maybe SoB) so you have to use them thats like never using a Baal or LR as a transport just because you don't have anymore rhino's and 2many points leftover. It's great to win but you have to have fun.

 

 

P.S. Sorry if i came off like one of those my way or else guys i'm just a little fanaticle about those freakin hand flamers AWESOME.

[Redo]

I go with a PS on the serg. a hand flamer and infernus pistol in the squad. Why because thats BA. I know you think str 3 ap 6 SUCKS. nope clears half a squad of chaos marines in a heart beat no pics just take my word works awesome and noone sees it coming then you charge through them after the bolt pistols and that great Ipistol. oh yea and screw using it against armor shot that thing into the midst of anything it cuts'em down like grass and your the lawn mower and after this glorious shooting phase you get to close the distance and everyone gets an extra attack for having 2 weapons. You have the only army that gets both these weapons right(well maybe SoB) so you have to use them thats like never using a Baal or LR as a transport just because you don't have anymore rhino's and 2many points leftover. It's great to win but you have to have fun.

 

 

P.S. Sorry if i came off like one of those my way or else guys i'm just a little fanaticle about those freakin hand flamers AWESOME.

 

We are also the only Space Marine army that can get equip Jump Pack Assault Marines with Meltaguns...now that too is also Blood Angels. What does that cost us? The loss of one attack for the cheaper and arguably more effective melta gun...now that is just common sense gaming.

 

I am also going to politly disagree with you about those hand flamers. Sure on some units they are fluffy and add something BA to them but HFs should be a little rarer than the common flamer variety so I reckon one should not go overboard with them.

As to your reasoning about clearing half a squad of CSM with a hand flamer; Well that must of been your lucky day. Statistically one would have to cover something like 45 marines with the template to cause that many wounds.

Your friend the hand flamer gives imperial guard, genestealers, eldar and any other race that has a 5+ armour save a chance to survive...with the flamer they are alreay dead and this is what makes a massive difference when playing hordes.

[Morollan]

I know you think str 3 ap 6 SUCKS. nope clears half a squad of chaos marines in a heart beat no pics just take my word works awesome

 

I'd have to say that the above is a freak occurrence and statistically extremely unlikely. You'd be lucky to hit more than 3 Chaos Marines with a template and of those only 1 would be wounded on average and he'd make his save. The odds of taking out even half a combat squad, let alone half a full squad, are so remote as to be a virtual impossibility.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

To give the exact math, on avg you'd have to hit 9 marines to score a single wound. A normal flamer needs to hit 6. However, it is a weapon with a high ceiling of potential. A plasma/infernus pistol will average more kills, but they will never score more than 1 kill per shot. The hand flamer also has a higher chance of killing key models, since it will be putting on more wounds in general. There is certainly an argument for hand flamers. It gives you the chance to get lucky. It's really a matter of how much you want to gamble. Do you want a high chance of killing the most useless guy off their squad, or do you want a lower chance to potentially wipe several members, including special weapons?

 

Of course, hand flamers are going to be better against hordes than other pistol options even if they aren't penetrating armor. But then again, Infernus/Plasma can hurt tanks and is better against elite models like terminators (just not TH+SS ones.) In a direct comparison, I'm actually thinking the hand flamer IS worthwhile, especially if the 5 pts saved means something good for another squad.

 

The real question is if it's worthwhile in the larger context of the army. Assault marines are not exactly hurting for anti horde what with their loads of attacks on the charge (especially if they have red thirst or a priest.) What they are lacking is anti armor capability. I'm running an all jump army for example. I'm relying on Meltas, infernus pistols, and power fists for my AV. That infernus pistol could easily make the difference in a fight against something like a dreadnought, but it's probably not going to be needed against a normal tank which will just get crushed by a powerfist+krak grenades/furious charge rear armor hits.

 

Ultimately it comes down to what your army needs, and if you want your squad to be specialized or generalized.

[Redo]

@Judge Dreadnought; reagrding maths. I think that one was covered when I wrote that once would have to cover 45 marines with the template to score 5 wounds; Anyway it seems to me that you have answered you original question in your post. You want anti-tanks so you should just take it. Sure three melta weapons in a squad is getting a bit expensive but it certainly has some the potential to combat squad and take out some more armout.

Yet I cannot think for exactly what armour do you want this. I mean if you are taking out Landraiders and the like, then 3 meltas are the order of the day but if you are taking out ordinary tanks I find that the marines' krak grenades sort out most. I mean there are not too many tanks with a rear armour greater than 10. Furthermore if you are thinking Land Raiders then I reccommend getting a specialist tank hunting unit such as Landspeeders or Bikes. Leave the assault marines for what they do best...horder and anti-infantry work.

 

To me it kind of seems you are going to extremes to justify dropping an extra melta weapon in a squad. No offense intended.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

@Judge Dreadnought; reagrding maths. I think that one was covered when I wrote that once would have to cover 45 marines with the template to score 5 wounds; Anyway it seems to me that you have answered you original question in your post. You want anti-tanks so you should just take it. Sure three melta weapons in a squad is getting a bit expensive but it certainly has some the potential to combat squad and take out some more armout.

Yet I cannot think for exactly what armour do you want this. I mean if you are taking out Landraiders and the like, then 3 meltas are the order of the day but if you are taking out ordinary tanks I find that the marines' krak grenades sort out most. I mean there are not too many tanks with a rear armour greater than 10. Furthermore if you are thinking Land Raiders then I reccommend getting a specialist tank hunting unit such as Landspeeders or Bikes. Leave the assault marines for what they do best...horder and anti-infantry work.

 

To me it kind of seems you are going to extremes to justify dropping an extra melta weapon in a squad. No offense intended.

 

I'm running an all jump 1500 pt list consisting of Dante, Librarian, 2 Priests, Sanguinary Guard, 2x 10 man ASM, and a 5 man vanguard. I don't have room for dedicated tank hunters without breaking theme. I don't have the points to fit another squad unless I drop a lot of stuff, so It's really just a matter of nitpicking over the final loadout choices. When trying to optimize a theme list like this I do end up going to the extremes and obsessing over every detail.

 

The biggest fears of a list like this are big tanks like vindicators or lemen russes that will splat you when you deepstrike. I need to be able to drop next to them and blast them with shooting, which means I can't wait for an assault to take them out. Dreadnoughts are also an issue because they will mulch through my few expensive guys easily. An extra melta shot on the way in could mean they lose their weapon and don't take out as many of my guys while I wait for the powerfist to kill them.

[bloodancient]

I know you think str 3 ap 6 SUCKS. nope clears half a squad of chaos marines in a heart beat no pics just take my word works awesome

 

I'd have to say that the above is a freak occurrence and statistically extremely unlikely. You'd be lucky to hit more than 3 Chaos Marines with a template and of those only 1 would be wounded on average and he'd make his save. The odds of taking out even half a combat squad, let alone half a full squad, are so remote as to be a virtual impossibility.

 

Look i'm not saying it wasn't luck but thats the roll of the dice for you. I've also had some really crappy rolls like loosing a squad or terms to lasgun fire in one turn and only 20 shots. 3+ a good save 2+ better but there's a 1 on there also and we all know it happens.

 

As to the use of melta's in the squad i was unaware that C:SM didn't allow the use of them. And in that case I just might have to mix in one of those in the next ASM squad. I appreciate BA only possibilities in everygame.

[JamesI]

personally I prefer the hand flamer. My squad members carry meltaguns, so I can give the sergeant that little bit of horde control in the hand flamer.

 

The other option would be 1 melta 1 flamer in the squad, then an infernus pistol for the sergeant. Maybe my next RAS will be armed that way.

[Redo]

The other option would be 1 melta 1 flamer in the squad, then an infernus pistol for the sergeant. Maybe my next RAS will be armed that way.

 

This is the way James, I swear...most of the time by this setup. Handflamer...no way. Then again some people just have more affinity with dice. I reckon that Hand Flamer is like the gambler's weapon. Are yo feeling lucky today?

[Oloff Hammeraxe]

As someone who likes to specialize his squads, I really like to go with the Infernus Pistol and Fist on the Sarge, with 2 meltaguns in the squad. Usually, I'll deep strike and combat squad this unit, and it's been a rather effective tactic so far, especially when facing a few Leman Russ tanks. I usually drop the 2 melta guys with 3 ablative wounds next to rear armor, and kersplode something dangerous, and the Sarge and Co (usually with a priest with PW, because Fist/Power Sword combo is disgusting) oftentimes just drop somewhere relatively safe, but close enough to do something on the next turn. I find this combo handy because not only do I have my really cheap (I think the cost is like 110 points for these 5 guys) tank hunter squad, I still have a versatile all-around squad. If I'm going after a non-transport tank with my Sarge's crew, the Infernus Pistol and Fist may seem redundant, but at only one shot with the Infernus, redundancy is important. If I'm attacking a transport, I have a good chance of popping it, and then the fist makes the tank's contents cry.