questions regarding demi companies

[Brother_Fatiswon]

3 tactical squads, 1 assault squad, 1 devastator squad and 1 hq and

+transports+

but rhinos or pods for all? mix and match ratio? 3:1

What about a pod for the assault squad... could be a 5 pod beat down? Would you take a pod for the devastator squad?

Would you thing running a pair of Riflemen Dreads would have the same impact as say a devastator squad with x4 Missile launchers?

and Finally, Any thoughts about SC and the Demi company? Calgar every time?

[jesselowe]

Well, for a fluffy demi-company, I'd go...

 

HQ: Captain with relic blade etc.

HQ*: Command squad with plasma guns, LC/TLPG razorback.

Troops: Tac squad with Rhino, melta

Troops: Tac squad with Rhino, melta

Troops: Tac squad with drop pod (late-game objective grabber)

Elites: Dreadnought in drop pod

Fast attack: Assault squad with flamers

Heavy support: Devastator squad with 4 missile launchers, TLLC razorback

 

If there was still room, I'd add Predators, Land Speeders, and either tactical terminators or sternguard. (Or Rifleman dreads, non-podded).

 

I don't think it'd be a really effective list for the points, but it'd be fun.

 

I think a pair of rifle dreads would be more effective than the devastators with ML - they can move and shoot, and they will be more accurate, in exchange for slightly lower weapon strength and being vulnerable to shaking damage.

[Xeonic]

The pair of rifle dreads wins hands down in my book, they have an AV so they're taking fire that your rhinos would be taking, they can fire at 2 seperate targets a turn(devs can do this at 10 men with combat squads), and they're halfway decent in CC even without a DCCW(S6 at least). Yes, they can be stunned/immobilized and weapon destroyed, but a 5 man dev squad with 4 heavy weapons starts losing firepower fast, and needs to be totally stationary to bring their weapons to bear.

 

That said, if you're taking devastators, consider a hybrid 3ML/1LC squad at 10 men, this allows you to enjoy a BS5 lascannon, and 3 missiles that can be applied to a secondary target.

 

I'd also consider putting the assault marines in a rhino, one more rhino can go a long ways towards getting what you've got in them acrost the table. In my opinion, the more rhinos you plonk down on the table the better.

Remember also you could take land speeders or bikes as assault marines also deploy on those when needed.

 

I'd suggest not putting your command squad in a LC/PG razorback...there's a very good reason you shouldn't put one of your linchpin point sink units in a really fragile fire platform. Throwing your command squad into a expensive threatening razorback is a real nice way to give your opponent a definite priority target. That said, I'd still do it for fun, but I stick by the good old 5pt heavy bolter razor or even just having your guys shoot them bolt pistols out the top of a rhino(great with a plasma command squad!) if needed. :(

[Sabatine]

Can a dreadnought split fire? i know SW longfangs devastator squad can but haven't seen a dread do it yet.

[jesselowe]

No, dreads can't split fire. (I think Xeonic means two dreadnoughts could fire at two separate targets, while a non-combat squadded Devastator squad can only shoot one.)

[Xeonic]

Perhaps I misunderstood that it was a comparison between a single devastator squad and two rifleman dreads.

The devastators cannot split fire unless at 10 men and combat squadded, the two seperate dreads can.

 

10x devastators with 4x missile launcher is 230 pts in codex space marines

2x dreads with dual TLAC is 250 pts in codex space marines

 

The dreads have 4x twin linked S7 BS4 shots each(very very killy vs light armor), the devestators 3x BS4 S8 shots and a BS5 one(reasonably killy vs light/medium armor), but really to make the most of it, either way it's two killpoints.

I personally probably really prefer the dreads because I'm terrible at dice games and need all the rerolls I can get.

 

EDIT: it's worth noting that if you give the dev squad a lascannon(BS5 lascannon is yummy) it also costs 250 pts.

EDIT2: it's also worth noting that devastators are fairly hard(as are all PA marines) to remove from cover as well, where the dreads can only get obscured saves, and most things that obscure a rifleman also limit it's field of fire.

[Ming]

To stay focused on the 3:1:1 rule -

 

If you are as a purist going 3:1:1 (tacs, assault, devs) - just remember that assault could mean 10 assault marines in jump packs, bikes or speeders. The goal is to have 10 marines in the assault/fast role. Vehicles could be rhinos or razors for everyone. As for dreads, most marine companies have about 2 dreads per company, 4 at the most, unless you are going techno. A demicompany could fill 1-2 elite slots with dreads. Another spot to fill if you have a captain is taking a command squad. The captain and command squad would be kitted with either a razorback (unless you can use a forgeworld command rhino), or be on bikes or jump packs.

 

A demicompany with pods in a pure sense would be the command pod, 3 tac pods, and 1 dev pod. In a game, seeing as fluff seems to have dev pods landing just out of sight, you would need 4 pods for the company as the devs pod fluffwise would be off-board. Jump packs for assault marines would be best fluff for this kind of list.

 

Once you get the HQ:1:3:1:1, then add in other elite, fast, or heavy support to fill the point requirements....it is a very viable guideline, and more balanced and tournament friendly than you may think.

[Brother_Fatiswon]

EDIT2: it's also worth noting that devastators are fairly hard(as are all PA marines) to remove from cover as well, where the dreads can only get obscured saves, and most things that obscure a rifleman also limit it's field of fire.

triggered a thought... if i added a Tech marine w/a power sword (joined to the devastator) then they would be sitting With 3++ Cover save. 65pts for sure, but..

@Ming +1 Being a returning player from the 1st and 3rd eras of 40k, the Demi Company seems to be the wisest starting point for me. I have all may Chapter fluff units (well working on the scouts..kinda of..)

thinking: once i get the models(where are my pop cans?), I'll run the 1/3/1/1 all in pods but i think maybe I'll try the Calgar/ x4 HG w/Chapter banner and Thunder hammer and Tigurius. Also thinking about taking that devastator pod, dropped in empty, with the death wind missile launcher. Seems fluffy to me.

 

Has any one have any input about Using SC with a demi company?

[Xeonic]

Well, God of War might come in handy there, and Calgar would no doubt take command of a detachment of any company if he had to.

 

I'd personally just stick with a chapter champ with relic blade though,

Ccalgar produces enough I1 fist attacks to take care of most things, and could really benefit from more PW attacks at I. With a banner around he can crank out 7 fist attacks(4 base+1offhand+1charge+1banner)... Still, thunder hammer is a good buy for the WS5 champ, so don't let me stop you. ;)

 

As for the techmarine, that could work, but in the end he's still a 1W IC with no invuln. I'd suggest going to a thunderfire (glass)cannon techmarine for all your bolster defences needs, he could add a lot of firepower to that prepared position to help out the devastators! Plus it gives them something to shoot at instead of the devastators. Remember that purely by RAW techmarines can -only- bolster ruins, so make sure there are some on the table, preferably in your deployment zone. ;)

The thunderfire also happens to only cost 25pts over a basic techmarine w/servo harness, hooray!

[Ming]

Yep, for the sake of company efficiency, the thunderfire is an awesome choice, better and cheaper than a 4 ML dev squad for shooting templates, and better than a whirlwind if terrain is open and you get to go first.

 

But for a purist, the thunder would come after you already have a dev squad...

 

I'd only add Calgar when the point size is towards exceeding 2000...

[Brother_Fatiswon]

yeah, I've had my eye on a Thurder fire cannon for awhile, but only if i can get it on trade or cheap from an exiting nOOb at my LGS. if i wasn't going to stay to the template, i guess i could run a Rifleman dread+ TFC, hiding the Tech marine behind the dread, would grant the cover save to the Glass cannon (50% of the unit in cover...) Plus if i brought my own "ruins" that would be a 3++ save for both Dread and TFC.

But i would think for myself, i wouldn't bring it unless it was in concert with a full company, as the 3rd and final Heavy support option. so fluff-wise i could run the Assault/Fast attack say x5 LS?

Maybe take the Company Capt instead of Tiggie, or vice versa, Tiggie over Calgar, w/ a Capt instead.

Another option I was thinking about in regards to a all pod beat down, would be the Mythical Dropped 1st turn x4 MutiMelta Devastator squad w/PF+PP w/ Tiggie for force dome/gate/null++ and re-rolls on reverses (or x4 Plasma Cannon..)

[Ookami_81]

An interesting half compagny I used is (IIRC, only tried it sometimes for fun):

 

HQ1: captain with RB, hellfire rounds and bike

HQ1': command squad on bike (deathstar kitted (SSs, LCs, meltaguns) but you can do your own shooty or assaulty or both one)

HQ2: JP chaplain

Elite1: techmarine

Troop1: full biker squad, melta, melta, MM AB

Troop2: full tactical, flamer, ML, rhino

Troop3: full tactical, plasma rifle, plasma cannon, rhino

HS1: full deva, splitted, lascan with a sarge and ablatives, others with ML, ML, HB.

HS2: Vindicator

FA1: full assault marines, PFist, 2 flamers.

 

The only problem on this list is relatively weak firebase with only the devas, and the techmarine for improved cover. I should have add a Thunderfire cannon but I don't own the mini and the list is already points heavy.

 

Basically you've got a firebase, an objective catching force adding offense or defense depending on the situation (the two tac squads).

 

I chose assault marines with JP chaplain for fluff reasons, I think the list would be better with other bikers, but if I do that I've got 4 troops and no FA so it's not half a company.

 

The rest of the army is a multistage "fist in ya' face" force: command squad first screening the rest with their SShields, followed by vindic, followed by Chappy enhanced assault marines, charging the weakest flank of the enemy. Vindic + command squad is brutal angainst tanks, MCs, TEqs, MEqs, Vindic + assault marines + chappy is brutal against massed light infantry. I found this combo nearly unstoppable. It was sometimes defeated, but only in the case I played against someone knowing the list and tailoring an army against it.

 

The other bikers are a mobile shooting force whose primary mission is to pop tanks, secondary to invoke bolter hell whenever and wherever necessary, and eventually if they survive to take an objective in the last turn of the battle. I don't combat squad them very often to enhance their survivability.