DC vs VV vs Honour Guard?

[Mudpuppet]

Hi there, being new to the game i have not really had an opportunity to try these units to see which is better.

 

On paper i tend to like the look of HG with their free priest and weapon upgrade options.

 

On the table i like the look of DC and they seem pretty powerful on paper too.

 

In practise i was wondering can VV do as good a job as these other units? Or do you really have to use them in support of other units like using thier heroic intervention after destroying a tank etc?

 

As a more specific question to people, if you had a choice between taking a unit of 5 DC or a unit of 5 VV which would you take and why?

 

Thanks,

 

Mudpuppet

[JamesI]

I would take VV, though I know many will disagree with me.

 

Partly because of the rage rule. I dislike having an uncontrollable unit, and I have had good luck with VV.

 

If you only want a 5 man squad, HG is probably the best choice (unless you know you plan to use HI)

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

I'd say I'd go for the DC for the simple fact that it opens up the chance to get both Lemartes and a DC Dread. Both of them are pretty awesome units despite the Rage USR.

 

Now, if I wanted a mobile tank hunting squad I'd go for the HG decked out with Meltas and a priest.

 

And if I had a tactic with multiple Drop pods or a Scout Squad with locator beacon which could make my VV land exactly where I want them to assault, I would go for the VV (Also, VV is a good way to make sure the enemy stays away from your Drop Pods.. just the threat of that heroic intervention can do many things to an enemy)

 

So.. different squads in different situations really. But all can define the rest of your army depending how you use them.

[Red Fury]

If you want a mounted squad, go with the DC.

 

If you want to deep strike, opt for the VV.

 

If you want to attach an IC or run a support type squad, then HG is for you.

 

In terms of CC killyness I think they rank DC>HG>VV. The HG are nearly as good as DC on the charge but are missing the ws5. The VV lack FnP and FC and that WS5 BUT can enter the game and assault via HI without ever giving the enemy a chance to shoot them.

 

One other thing to point out is that DC with JPs are just too expensive now and having a ride seems the best/only option for them.

[Haunter!]

If set up properly, a VV squad can really cause some damage. This, of course requires coordination with the rest of your army, but the same can be said of all units I suppose. The fact that the Sergeant can be kitted out for the cheap makes them a pretty fun unit.

 

I love my HG. I run a quad plasma squad with jump packs and a jump pack libby (fear and shield). Always fun to zip around, rapid fire plasma, and spook what ever is left of them.

 

I don't like DC just because I've never liked Rage. I don't like it when my models play the game for me.

[BigBaals]

I haven't used my DC yet, but they will be mounted in a Rhino, Land Raider Crusader or sent via Drop Pod when I do.

 

I LOVE my VV though. 7 or 8 man strong, Lightning Claws, Powerfist, Power Sword, and deep strike in. It all depends on positioning, I've had excellent luck deep striking for heroic intervention near my Assault Squad that contains my priest. Decent of Angels is a godsend. 1d6 scatter is amazing, and the trick for me is to position that first model 3-4" away from what you want to kill. When you throw Initiative 5 on the VV they are close combat monsters. In my last game they ate an entire squad of 20 Termagants on the way down, then turned around the next turn when the Mawloc popped up behind them, and ate that (again, near the priest/Libby/Assault Squad for the FNP/FC/5+ Shield of Sang.). While my opponents fritter away at my 8 man VV Squad that's chewing them up, my Assault Squads, Razorbacks, Baals, and Preads eat the rest of there army handily.

 

Here's my 8 man VV Tournament 2k list:

 

Librarian JP Unleash/Shield

 

Assault Squadx10 MGx2 PF

Assault Squadx10 MGx2 PF

Assault Squadx5 MG PW Razor/AC

Assault Squadx5 MG PW Razor/AC

 

Priestx2 JP/PW; PW

 

Baal HB

Baal HB

Vanguard Vets x8 PF, PW, LC, JP

 

Pread AC/LC

Pread AC/LC

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I agree with James that VV are the best all around choice. Here is a link to a recent article I wrote on my blog:

 

http://greenblowfly.blogspot.com/2010/08/v...ngels-what.html

 

I have come to the conclusion that DC are not competitive.

 

0b :D

[Brother Kovash]

0b, great info in that article. Once I get around to it, I'll get my VV up and running.

[Abraxes]

First off, welcome to 40K and kudos on picking BA to play. I've been hooked on them since the original space hulk and I now find them deadlier / cooler than ever.

 

As for your question on which unit is better with regard to DC and VV (I can't speak for HG or SG as I don't use them), you can reference the collective wisdom of some extremely savvy 40K players on here, that I would readily defer to - including math-hammer dice statistics, proven army lists and carnage inspiring tactics - as it's all there for the taking so read up and indulge.

 

After doing all that, I would also ask you to consider what sort of style you are trying to capture within your army as you build / paint / field it and then cater to that as your backdrop. I try to use the classic BA units more than the newer ones now available. Basically, lots of jump troops with pred and dread support. I go for speed of deployment with the intent of opening up as many flank attacks / assaults as I can possibly manage. To that end, VV and DC can greatly lend a hand.

 

For VV, I usually take 1 or even 2, 5-man VV teams all kitted out with PW and JPs. Expensive yes...but with a specific purpose in life in that they are used as a scalpel (HI) to remove specific enemy units from the game at my choosing (depending on the dice gods of course). I fight a lot of Tau and Chaos, so allowing Broadsides or termies to live is just not an option...so I employ VV to respond accordingly.

 

Then there's DC....ahhhhhh DC. I personally love DC fluff and in terms of game mechanics, there are very few 40K units that can instill a true sense of dread within the mind of your opponent as he contemplates turn after turn just how he's going to deal with those lunatics as they close in. Thus providing your other units a small degree of anonymity when it comes to the enemy shooting phase. I have had enormous success running a 5-man DC team with all PW and JPs and Lemartes. If you can manage to land that team into the midst of your enemy while concurrently moving and fighting with the remaining core of your army you are more than likely going to have a good day, or at the very least, a couple really good turns.

 

Going back to that question of army style. VV and DC in limited numbers just seem to fit my personal image of a BA army and as such, I use them a great deal. If you're new to the game, pick the units that visually and / or fluffwise appeal to you and then try to build an army concept around that. Fine tuning can and will come later.

 

Hope you find these points useful.

 

Enjoy the game.

 

-Abraxes

[Mudpuppet]

For VV, I usually take 1 or even 2, 5-man VV teams all kitted out with PW and JPs. Expensive yes...but with a specific purpose in life in that they are used as a scalpel (HI) to remove specific enemy units from the game at my choosing (depending on the dice gods of course). I fight a lot of Tau and Chaos, so allowing Broadsides or termies to live is just not an option...so I employ VV to respond accordingly.

 

Hmm, really good advice in your reply thanks mate, i think this is what i am looking for, i think i wanted to get a scalpel unit for surgical hits on important units just as you described.

 

Cheers Abraxes, and everyone else who replied too.

 

Mudpuppet

[JamesI]

I agree with James that VV are the best all around choice. Here is a link to a recent article I wrote on my blog:

 

http://greenblowfly.blogspot.com/2010/08/v...ngels-what.html

 

I have come to the conclusion that DC are not competitive.

 

0b :P

Good article!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Thanks James !

 

:teehee:

 

0b ;)