Thunder Wolf Lord Best Weapon

[I Shun You!]

Wolf Lord -Thunder Wolf Mount, Wolf tooth necklace, Frost weapon, Runic Armor, Saga of Warrior Born, Wolf Tail Talisman

 

Standard wolf lord inefective against MC and walkers

 

or

 

Wolf Lord -Thunder Wolf Mount, Wolf tooth necklace, Thunder Hammer, Runic Armor, Saga of Bear, Wolf Tail Talisman

 

this one is more versatile but worse at deal with infantry and 5 points more.

 

so i cant decide which is better

[Valerian]

Wolf Lord -Thunder Wolf Mount, Wolf tooth necklace, Frost weapon, Runic Armor, Saga of Warrior Born, Wolf Tail Talisman

 

Standard wolf lord inefective against MC and walkers

 

or

 

Wolf Lord -Thunder Wolf Mount, Wolf tooth necklace, Frost weapon, Runic Armor, Saga of Bear, Wolf Tail Talisman

 

this one is more versatile but worse at deal with infantry and 5 points more.

 

so i cant decide which is better

 

It looks like all of your options were the same except for the Saga (Warriorborn vs. Bear), so this isn't really a "Best Weapon" topic.

 

If you are worried about S10 weapons in the army you are facing (there are some in the game, but they aren't all that prevelant, with each army typically only having a few) then go with Bear. If you aren't worried about getting Instant Death'd by an S10 hit by the enemy, then go with Warriorborn to rack up more kills in close combat.

 

Valerian

[I Shun You!]

Wow i feel like an idiot it was suppose to be a thunder hammer i fixed it

[Vash113]

Honestly the best combo I've seen is Frost Blade, Storm Shield, Runic Armor and Saga of the Bear. For an all around tough as nails character that strikes at an awesome Str 6 and is pretty darn hard to bring down and is immune to instant death to boot.

[Wildfire]

I notice that you have no invulnerable on either one. I personally would go with either FW/BoR or TH/SS. I don't like the FW/SS model, you lose out on an attack.

 

Honestly, unless you play against a lot of stuff with ID abilities (force weapons, boneswords, etc), I would no use Bear. Warrior Born is ok, but while it looks good at first glance I think it's not all that great in practice. Too often you miss an assualt phase and he resets, or doesn't get into combat at all until late in the game. If you take FW/BoR I would suggest Beast for use against TMCs and the like. Otherwise I don't know that he needs a saga at all.

[Vash113]

You may miss out on an attack with the Frost Weapon but the Lord, especially on a Thunderwolf, doesn't really need more attacks, or strength for that matter and striking last with the Thunderhammer can mean death, especially against certain characters. Plus even with T5 there are still a good few things that can cause instant death and the investment has in my experience always payed off for that extra survivability. It really sucks to see an expensive and tooled out Thunderlord go down to a Vindicator shot.

 

And yes invulnerable saves are a must. I would even say forget the Belt of Russ and advise a Storm Shield as mandatory kit.

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

My thoughts.

 

 

- Thunder Hammer - Horrible choice, except in very specific army lists. Your Lord gets an Initiative of 5 and you are really going to throw it away!?

 

- Frost Blade - Not bad, looks cool, but is actually not the best option in most instances.

 

- Wolf Claw - Yup, Mathhammer sez this one works the best most often.

 

Honestly the best combo I've seen is Frost Blade, Storm Shield, Runic Armor and Saga of the Bear. For an all around tough as nails character that strikes at an awesome Str 6 and is pretty darn hard to bring down and is immune to instant death to boot.

 

In almost every single situation, a Wolf Claw instead of the Frost Blade above would perform better in combat.

[old git]

Frost axe and Belt of Russ has seen me through many a battle succesfully (well obviously not the real me, my braided, bearded axe weilding 7' tall other me). On a thunderwolf on the assault he strikes with 7 S6 attacks. Combined with WTN and Beastslayer he takes on just about everything and comes out the other side bloodied but unbowed. If you use a th/hammer to attack vehicles your fangs or hunters with melta aren't doing their job. Frost axe/WTN/thunderwolf/beastslayer - best combination.

[Wildfire]

In almost every single situation, a Wolf Claw instead of the Frost Blade above would perform better in combat.

 

Incorrect. Vs T4 or above, a frostblade with extra attack would be better (T8 being the exception, and not including possible bonus attacks from Warrior Born). Vs. vehicles, a frost weapon will always be better. The only time a single Wolf Claw is better is against T3. But S6 also IDs T3, which is sometimes meaningful.

[Fenric]

I ran mine with Frostblade+offhand weapon, TVM, Wolf tail talisman, Wolftooth necklace and belt of russ and worked just fine since I ran through cover and then charged in and held up alot of units. Only thing I would change is spend the extra points for Warrior born to help me get through big units faster.

 

Guess it all depends on what you have in the rest of your army and what you are facing.

[Levitas]

For one you shouldnt really be running him on his own, so you give the hammer to a regular thunder wolf who will put out 5 str 10 blows on the charge. Plus he isnt an IC so cant be picked out. That leaves your wolf lord the chance to use his valuable I5.

 

I'm not a fan of the warrior/bear sagas as they cost way too much but it does depend on what you face often. There is str 10 out there, like flying blood angel libby dreads and kan spam, not to mention IG big guns. So you should be cautious but there are ways to prevent an early end to your wolf lord. Fen wolves are great ever for a thunder wolf lord, who is vulnerable to shooting. Plus throw in a thunder wolf with storm shield and he can take a lascannon to the face for him too.

 

So build the pack around him, and keep his killing potential high. More attacks with str 6 frost blade and belt of russ, or str 5 claw and storm shield with handy re-rolls.

 

I dont think you should ever give a HQ a hammer, you pay a lot of points for their ability to strike faster AND they can be targeted before they can swing it.

 

Just avoid all dreads, they will tear you a new one really quickly.

[Beef]

give him a belt of russ and TH and FB. Use the TH when you go against hq's of higher I than your lord. atleast you know when the lord finally hist with the TH the other hq should be squished, plus against MC the TH does stun them.

 

Question if the MC is stunned next turn doe the Lord Th strike at the same time as the MC or does it still strike last

[Fenric]

give him a belt of russ and TH and FB. Use the TH when you go against hq's of higher I than your lord. atleast you know when the lord finally hist with the TH the other hq should be squished, plus against MC the TH does stun them.

 

Question if the MC is stunned next turn doe the Lord Th strike at the same time as the MC or does it still strike last

 

Hehe I have limted models(duh) of Thudnerwolves so my lord atm is dual wielding one frost blade and one thunderhammer. I mostly use the hammer as offhand weapon though but it loosk cool and I only play friendly games. Not so sure what an official tourney would think about a big hammer counted as offhand like that really.

[Valerian]

I'm with Levitas on this one; give the TH to one of your regular TWC guys and let him do the Hulk Smash for the unit. Give your Wolf Lord either Frost Blade or Wolf Claw and Shield -your choice, either will work just fine for you.

 

As for Sagas, again, there are several good choices. Bear is the "safest" route as it keeps you alive against those things that kill you outright. If you aren't concerned about that, or are willing to accept some "risk", go with Beastslayer for more potency versus MCs. If you want to shred enemy units, go for Warriorborn. Your TWC will probably already tear apart non-elite enemy units, but WB almost guarantees that you will. I've been playing with Ragnar, and I've grown to love WB. It doesn't take too many extra attacks in a game before it has paid for itself.

 

Go with any of these and you'll probably do fine. Try different combinations in a few games, and see what you like best.

 

V

[jmurph]

Just to reiterate, if not taking a BP (IE when taking a StormShield), the wolf claw re-rolling damage is almost always better than a frost weapon. The only time the frost weapon is consitently better is when taking a Belt and the BP for +1 attacks. Beastslayer would also factor in.

 

I like Lord on TWolf with Storm Shield and Claw with wolf tooth necklace and warrior born backed up by a THammer in the unit. Absolutely murders. Trimming the saga makes him cheaper but still very killy. I don't worry about vehicles too much- that's what my meltas/Longfangs/etc. are for. No use wasting a lord there!

 

Canis is also a great lord choice. He is cheaper than a similar kitted lord and good enhancement for Fenrisian wolves, but at a cost of LD.

[Valerian]

Just to reiterate, if not taking a BP (IE when taking a StormShield), the wolf claw re-rolling damage is almost always better than a frost weapon. The only time the frost weapon is consitently better is when taking a Belt and the BP for +1 attacks. Beastslayer would also factor in.

 

I like Lord on TWolf with Storm Shield and Claw with wolf tooth necklace and warrior born backed up by a THammer in the unit. Absolutely murders. Trimming the saga makes him cheaper but still very killy. I don't worry about vehicles too much- that's what my meltas/Longfangs/etc. are for. No use wasting a lord there!

 

Canis is also a great lord choice. He is cheaper than a similar kitted lord and good enhancement for Fenrisian wolves, but at a cost of LD.

 

Canis doesn't have an Invulnerable Save though, so that alone is reason enough for me not to take him.

[Karack Blackstone]

I notice that a TWLord can be given the following for the same points as a FB:

 

TWM, WC, RA, WTN, SS, Saga Bear, MB.

 

Is that MB worth the pts in the long run, or would I be better off getting a BoR instead, and going for twin WC's or a FB and BP? I want killy, and hard to drop. I honestly haven't seen SagaWarriorBorn work yet, so I don't see how/why it's useful. Plus my dice don't roll consistently; it seems like a waste...

[wisdom like silence]

In almost every single situation, a Wolf Claw instead of the Frost Blade above would perform better in combat.

 

Incorrect. Vs T4 or above, a frostblade with extra attack would be better (T8 being the exception, and not including possible bonus attacks from Warrior Born). Vs. vehicles, a frost weapon will always be better. The only time a single Wolf Claw is better is against T3. But S6 also IDs T3, which is sometimes meaningful.

If we assume that the lord has a storm shield and for that reason wolf claw and frost blade both are 5 attacks base, the wolf claw is better in most instances. Given the relative prices and the sheer number of attacks a TWC lord has, it's a pretty clear cut decision to give him a SS instead of a belt.

[Roland Durendal]

In almost every single situation, a Wolf Claw instead of the Frost Blade above would perform better in combat.

 

Incorrect. Vs T4 or above, a frostblade with extra attack would be better (T8 being the exception, and not including possible bonus attacks from Warrior Born). Vs. vehicles, a frost weapon will always be better. The only time a single Wolf Claw is better is against T3. But S6 also IDs T3, which is sometimes meaningful.

 

I think this is not entirely true. If you gave dual WC's, both ge tthe bonus attack and the WC overall has better or equal chances of wounding T6 and T7. I'll have to find the post I had where I did the math, but I did it for similar equipment loads (i.e. both had WTN's, TWM's, and SS's). If you are to compare effectiveness you need to do pure comparisons, i.e. everything EXACTLY the same except for whether it has WC or FB...

 

And since I can no longer find said post...here be the math again (assuming the charge and all have WTN's, TWM's, and SS's):

 

WL w/ FB vs T3:

6 attacks* 2/3 = 4 hits

4 hits * 5/6 = 3.333 wounds

 

WL w/ WC v. T3

6 attacks * 2/3 = 4 hits, reroll 2 (2*2/3)= 1.333 hits, total: 5.333 hit

5.3333hit * 5/6 = 4.4444 wounds

 

WL w/ FB vs T4:

6 attacks* 2/3 = 4 hits

4 hits * 5/6 = 3.333 wounds

 

WL w/ WC v. T4

6 attacks * 2/3 = 4 hits, reroll 2 (2*2/3) = 1.333 hits, total: 5.333 hit

5.333 hits * 2/3 = 3.5556 wounds

 

WL w/ FB vs T5:

6 attacks* 2/3 = 4 hits

4 hits * 2/3 = 2.6667 wounds

 

WL w/ WC v. T5

6 attacks * 2/3 = 4 hits, reroll 2 (2*2/3) = 1.333 hits, total: 5.333 hit

5.333 hits * 1/2 = 2.6667 wounds

 

WL w/ WC v. T5

6 attacks * 2/3 = 4 hits

4 hits * 1/2 = 2 wounds, reroll 2 (2*1/2) = 1 wound, total: 3 wounds

 

WL w/ FB vs T6:

6 attacks* 2/3 = 4 hits

4 hits * 1/2 = 2 wounds

 

WL w/ WC v. T6

6 attacks * 2/3 = 4 hits, reroll 2 (2*2/3) = 1.333 hits, total: 5.333 hit

5.333 hits * 1/3 = 1.7778 wounds

 

WL w/ WC v. T6

6 attacks * 2/3 = 4 hits

4 hits * 1/3 = 1.3333 wounds (4/3), reroll 2.6667 (8/3*1/3) = .8889 wound, total: 2.222 wounds

 

WL w/ FB vs T7:

6 attacks* 2/3 = 4 hits

4 * 1/3 = 1.333 wounds

 

WL w/ WC v. T7

6 attacks * 2/3 = 4 hits, reroll 2 (2*2/3) = 1.333 hits, total: 5.333 hit

5.333 hits * 1/6 = .8889 wounds

 

WL w/ WC v. T7

6 attacks * 2/3 = 4 hits

4 hits * 1/6 = .6667 wounds (2/3), reroll 3.3333 (10/3*1/6) = .5556 wound, total: 1.2223 wounds

 

 

Thus, except for against T7, the Wolf Claw is a superior choice. Even if we take away the SS and give the extra hand weapon to the FB and another WC to the WC lord, the WC still comes out ahead. Only when you start comparing different load outs (which isn't an effective or exact comparison) does the FB start to look better (i.e. when you do a FB+CCW TWM Lord vs a WC+SS TWM Lord).

 

Hope this helps

[Vash113]

Not superior enough to make a meaningful difference in my opinion, I mean .5 or less average kills difference? The only case where the Wolf Claw is truly superior is against T3, in all other cases your looking at a difference of less than 10%. Even at T4 the difference is 3% when you break it down. Here I'll even break it down for everyone Based on Roland's numbers:

 

T3

 

Frost Blade: 55% kills

Wolf Claw To Hit Re-Roll: 73% kills

 

Difference: Wolf Claw kills 18% more enemies.

 

T4

 

Frost Blade: 55% kills

Wolf Claw To Hit Re-Roll: 58% kills

 

Difference: Wolf Claw kills 3% more enemies.

 

T5

 

Frost Blade: 43% Kills

Wolf Claw To Hit Re-Roll: 43% kills

Wolf Claw To Wound Re-Roll: 50% Kills

 

Difference: Wolf Claw kills 7% more enemies.

 

T6

 

Frost Blade: 33% kills

Wolf Claw To Hit Re-Roll: 28% kills

Wolf Claw To Wound Re-Roll: 36% kills

 

Difference: Wolf Claw kills 3% more enemies.

 

T7

 

Frost Blade: 21% kills

Wolf Claw To Hit Re-Roll: 13% kills

Wolf Claw To Wound Re-Roll: 20% kills

 

Difference: Frost Blade kills 1% more enemies.

 

So, as I said the only case where the Wolf Claw really outperforms the Frost Blade in any noticeable way is against T3. In all other cases your looking at a maximum of 7% better killing power and a minimum of 3%. Or the Wolf Claw will kill 3-7 more enemies in 100 against all but T3 opponents. Not really a noticeable difference unless your fighting a horde of Orks and your Wolf Lord somehow manages to get kills that get up towards the triple digits but that really doesn't happen too often and with the vagaries of dice math-hammer results with such a small margin of difference will not likely effect tabletop results at all.

 

Its also important to take into consideration other factors. For instance with the Frost Blade the Wolf Lord can glance armor 12 and penetrate armor 11, which the Wolf Claw cannot do. Thus against a Dreadnought a Lord with a Frost Blade can still do damage where as a Wolf Claw would be useless and a Wolf Lord could get a penetrating hit on the rear armor of a Leman Russ Demolisher where a Wolf Claw could not. Now Melta Bombs are a different story but when points are tight and wargear considerations are tough the extra tactical flexibility of the Frost Blade is important in my opinion.

 

Plus I think Wolf Claws on a Thunderwolf riding model just look... lame. Too short to be used while riding a mount, case in point Canis, it looks like all he'd be able to do is scratch his legs with those things.

 

So when it comes down to it, with such a little difference the rule of cool and practicality are far more important in my opinion.

[Roland Durendal]

Agreed Vash, though I think if we factor in Sagas (primarily Warrior Born) over the course of a normal 5 turn game (assuming...and this is a HUGE assumption...that the Wolf Lord is able to 6 rounds of assault) the Wolf Claw armed Lord will come out on top (on average assuming average dice rolls) as opposed to the Frost Blade Lord. Again this isn't an accurate comparison primarily due to the effects of METT (that's army lingo for: Mission, Enemy - i.e. your opponents army list - Time, Troops - your own army list -, Terrain) on the game. There's really no way to guarantee a Lord will be able to roll into 5-6 assault phases in a row to maximize his attack ability. In a PERFECT environment though (ergo why this example isn't entirely accurate), the Wolf Lord with Wolf Claw/SS and Warrior Born will outperform the Wolf Lord with Frost Blade/SS and Warrior Born.

 

I think though the heart of the issue is what you want the Lord to do:

 

If you want a Lord that will chew through T3-T4 with ease and have a good shot against T5-T6, then the WC is the best weapon

If you want a Lord that will do well against T3-T6 AND be able to have an effect on vehicles/armor, then the Frost Blade is better.

 

It really comes down to functionality and role you want the Lord to play in your overall army.

[Blitzkreig]

I like to use this load out...

 

Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf Mount with Frost Weapon, Meltabombs, Belt of Russ, Wolf Tooth Necklace and Saga of the Bear.

 

245 Points for 6 S6 attacks on the charge, so he is fairly good at laying the smackdown on even the most suspecting of opponents.

 

A 4+ Invulnerable, T5 and Eternal Warrior means he is rather difficult to bring down.

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

In almost every single situation, a Wolf Claw instead of the Frost Blade above would perform better in combat.

 

Incorrect. Vs T4 or above, a frostblade with extra attack would be better (T8 being the exception, and not including possible bonus attacks from Warrior Born). Vs. vehicles, a frost weapon will always be better. The only time a single Wolf Claw is better is against T3. But S6 also IDs T3, which is sometimes meaningful.

If we assume that the lord has a storm shield and for that reason wolf claw and frost blade both are 5 attacks base, the wolf claw is better in most instances. Given the relative prices and the sheer number of attacks a TWC lord has, it's a pretty clear cut decision to give him a SS instead of a belt.

This is what I was getting at. A shield means you fail a save 1/3 the time instead of half the time, which is a smart investment for the expensive wolf lord. So in a good list, where you know, you want your lord to actually stay alive, a SS is almost a necessity. The combination of WC and SS is the same points as Frost Blade and Belt of Russ, yet it is so much more durable....

[SJumppanen]

Its also important to take into consideration other factors. For instance with the Frost Blade the Wolf Lord can glance armor 12 and penetrate armor 11, which the Wolf Claw cannot do. Thus against a Dreadnought a Lord with a Frost Blade can still do damage where as a Wolf Claw would be useless and a Wolf Lord could get a penetrating hit on the rear armor of a Leman Russ Demolisher where a Wolf Claw could not. Now Melta Bombs are a different story but when points are tight and wargear considerations are tough the extra tactical flexibility of the Frost Blade is important in my opinion.

 

Actualy, both lords can take out Dreadnoughts and Demolishers rear armour. What you are forgetting is that TWM has rending. I don't think that you can get +1S with FB or rerolls from WC when you try rending, but IMHO you still can use it even if you have special CCW.

[Voracioustigger]

I think your Mathhammer is broken...

 

Vs T3 - 32.7% better

 

vs. T4 - 5.5% better

 

vs. T5 - 16.3% better

 

vs. T6 - 9.1% better

 

You were just subtracting the %'s rather than actually comparing what % more effective the wolf claws are. I'd say it's a pretty noticeable difference against all but T4 enemies. A 9%+ increase in the amount of wounds you cause is pretty substantial IMHO.

 

Not superior enough to make a meaningful difference in my opinion, I mean .5 or less average kills difference? The only case where the Wolf Claw is truly superior is against T3, in all other cases your looking at a difference of less than 10%. Even at T4 the difference is 3% when you break it down. Here I'll even break it down for everyone Based on Roland's numbers:

 

T3

 

Frost Blade: 55% kills

Wolf Claw To Hit Re-Roll: 73% kills

 

Difference: Wolf Claw kills 18% more enemies.

 

T4

 

Frost Blade: 55% kills

Wolf Claw To Hit Re-Roll: 58% kills

 

Difference: Wolf Claw kills 3% more enemies.

 

T5

 

Frost Blade: 43% Kills

Wolf Claw To Hit Re-Roll: 43% kills

Wolf Claw To Wound Re-Roll: 50% Kills

 

Difference: Wolf Claw kills 7% more enemies.

 

T6

 

Frost Blade: 33% kills

Wolf Claw To Hit Re-Roll: 28% kills

Wolf Claw To Wound Re-Roll: 36% kills

 

Difference: Wolf Claw kills 3% more enemies.

 

T7

 

Frost Blade: 21% kills

Wolf Claw To Hit Re-Roll: 13% kills

Wolf Claw To Wound Re-Roll: 20% kills

 

Difference: Frost Blade kills 1% more enemies.

 

So, as I said the only case where the Wolf Claw really outperforms the Frost Blade in any noticeable way is against T3.