Deep Striking a Raider onto Ruins

[Cyto]

Sorry if someone fielded this question before but it came up at the local hobby store I played at today. What occurs when a deep striking land raider ends its scatter directly on top of a 3 story ruins building? Is it considered a mishap or does it stay on top of the ruins like a 250 point artillery piece or does it magically drift down 3 stories to end up at the bottom underneath the other floors?

 

The mishap description states that only off the table, impassible terrain, and enemy/friendly models cause a mishap and not difficult/dangerous terrain.

 

Thank you for your time

[Grey Mage]

A tank treats the third story of a building as impassable terran... so misshaps are you.

[JamesI]

I agree with Grey Mage. No other answer seems to make sense.

[Aramis_the_Red]

A tank treats the third story of a building as impassable terran... so misshaps are you.

 

I agree with the above in terms of RAW.

 

However, I think it would be more fun to treat it as a ramming attack by the raider. When a vehicle deepstrikes it counts as moving at cruising speed, so strength 4 for movement, plus 4 for armor 14, plus 1 for being a tank, so 9. Resolve the ram attack, if the building survives the raider mishaps, if it is destroyed or wrecked the raider is fine and the building is flat.

 

This is of course not how it works at all, but I think it would make a fun houserule.

[lunchb0x]

Why wouldnt it follow the drop pod precedent of landing on the lower level?

 

Where does it say a vehicle can not drive up ruins?

 

It would just be difficult and placed where it lands. It is ruins. Not a building.

[Grey Mage]

Why wouldnt it follow the drop pod precedent of landing on the lower level?

 

Where does it say a vehicle can not drive up ruins?

 

It would just be difficult and placed where it lands. It is ruins. Not a building.

1) DPs dont have that precident- if your silly enough to place a DP on top of a multi-story building then your going to misshap.

2) BRB pg. 83 says that only Infantry, Jump Infantry, Jetbikes, Monstrous Creatures, and Walkers may move onto the upper levels of a building. Since the LR is a tank, not a Walker, it cannot move onto the top level.

3) Ruins is precisely why it cant be placed there, as per pg. 83.

 

Make sense?

[Gaz1858]

Why wouldnt it follow the drop pod precedent of landing on the lower level?

 

Also Drop Pods have an Inertial Guidance thingymabob that makes it not land where it cant.

[Atrix]

The deep strike rules state that "Units deep striking into ruined buildings are placed on the ground floor..." (BRB p. 95), so there is no reason to place the model on top of the ruins anyway. If the model can be placed on ground level and fit inside the building, then it should be no problem. Also, if there is no base on the ruins, then the lowest level is not area terrain, and consequently would not force a dangerous terrain test. If there is a base, then a test should be taken.

 

If the model don't fit, then it gets more tricky.

Do you you treat the ruins as being "true" are terrain, such that models can move through walls etc., and do you allow this for vehicles as well? What if the the vehicle is taller than the floor of the first level? After all, levels above ground level are not impassable terrain to a vehicle, but they are not allowed to "move on the upper levels of a ruin" (p. 83).

One way to deal with this scenario would be to place the model and move parts of the ruin out of the way, like you would do with the trees in a forest (providing of course, that this is possible with the ruin). Otherwise, you could just state that if the model is unable to fit, it is a misshap.

 

Personally, I would go with the already suggested "ramming scenario" (for friendly games at least) which I think is an excellent idea. If the 'raider doesn't fit inside the ruin, it better make the ruin fit!

[Massawyrm]

Atrix is correct. The book could not be more clear on this issue. Deep Strikers landing on ruins always land on the bottom floor, end of story. DSing into ruins is treated as Dangerous Terrain. As the walls of ruins are not impassible, you'll need to work out with an opponent what happens if you scatter into a wall - but the answer should NOT be mishap. It is not your fault the terrain piece does not afford you the ability to place your LR where it can legally drive. I would simply let the opponent choose which side of the wall your LR is hugging.

[Grey Mage]

Where does it say you can co-exist with a wall?

[Brother Kovash]

Doesn't deep striking in cause you to treat dangerous terrain as impassable terrain? I can't look it up, my friend has my rulebook.

[Soups]

It's not a direct quote but i believe

 

"You roll on the mishap table if your final resting place would be on an enemy or friendly unit, or other impassable terrain"

 

This being a table top game, and not a video game, not everything can be 100% realistic (unless houseruled otherwise). You can pass through walls, grass, trees and anything other than buildings that are not ruins, with a suitable DT test. It is assumed the unit either knocked down a wall (for vehicles) or jumped through a window or a hole in the wall, when passing through said terrain. Unless you are willing to go through the extra effort to simulate these things, the terrain is still usable.

 

Vehicles, and bikes(or any unit that is counted as bike in the BRB), and walkers can not go up or down levels, and remain at ground level, as far as I know. They can be placed there in deployment, but only from deployment.

[Atrix]

This being a table top game, and not a video game, not everything can be 100% realistic (unless houseruled otherwise). You can pass through walls, grass, trees and anything other than buildings that are not ruins, with a suitable DT test. It is assumed the unit either knocked down a wall (for vehicles) or jumped through a window or a hole in the wall, when passing through said terrain. Unless you are willing to go through the extra effort to simulate these things, the terrain is still usable.

 

Vehicles, and bikes(or any unit that is counted as bike in the BRB), and walkers can not go up or down levels, and remain at ground level, as far as I know. They can be placed there in deployment, but only from deployment.

Walkers are allowed to move up or down in the ruins, I believe.

 

I would also like to point out that not all players would allow models to move through ruin walls in the first place. It is, after all, a suggested way to deal with ruins.

[Massawyrm]

Where does it say you can co-exist with a wall?

:(

 

Better question: since when is the wall of a RUIN considered impassable terrain?

 

Doesn't deep striking in cause you to treat dangerous terrain as impassable terrain? I can't look it up, my friend has my rulebook.

 

No. You treat it as dangerous terrain and weep a little as some of your units bite it. The rule you're thinking of is treating Difficult terrain as Dangerous terrain.

 

Vehicles, and bikes(or any unit that is counted as bike in the BRB), and walkers can not go up or down levels

 

Walkers are actually included in the group of units that CAN ascend and descend ruins.

[Ranwulf]

This is the time where you wonder how is possible a 30 Ton Tank fall over a RUINED building and not crash the whole thing down.

 

However, rules are rules, you misshap.

 

 

Land Raider Pilot:Everyone brace yourselves! WE ARE GOING TO SCATTTTTEEERRRRR!!!

 

Ran

[daboarder]

yes rules are rules, but why do you misshap? according to the rules you are placed on the bottom floor and roll your dangerous terrain roll. Where does the mishap come into it from?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I would place the tank on the ground level. Why would anyone want to land on top of a ruin?

 

0b :)

[Grey Mage]

Where does it say you can co-exist with a wall?

:)

 

Better question: since when is the wall of a RUIN considered impassable terrain?

I cant place a model in the wall- can you? Do you have the mastery of physics to do this? The rules allow you to move through walls if needed, but you cannot end your move inside the wall.

[Massawyrm]

Where does it say you can co-exist with a wall?

 

Better question: since when is the wall of a RUIN considered impassable terrain?

I cant place a model in the wall- can you? Do you have the mastery of physics to do this? The rules allow you to move through walls if needed, but you cannot end your move inside the wall.

 

The rules for deep striking mishaps are very specific. I suggest you read them. Seriously. EVERYTHING you've said in this thread has contradicted the book DIRECTLY. Not just in spirit, but in a manner that illustrates a complete and utter lack of ever having read them.

 

From the BRB (pg 95): If any models in a deep striking unit cannot be deployed because they would land off the table, in impassable terrain, on top of a friendly model or on top or within 1" of an enemy model, something has gone wrong. The controlling player must roll on the deep strike mishap table and apply the results.

 

From the BRB (pg 95): Units deep striking into ruined buildings are placed on the ground floor. They may not deep strike directly inside a transport vehicle or building, which will count as impassable terrain as normal.

 

A ruin is NOT impassible terrain, thus it does not conform to the perimeters necessary to trigger a mishap. As the rules are ALREADY requiring you to pick up and move the model to conform to its ground floor requirement, one would assume that you must place the unit LEGALLY on the ground floor - not magically through the wall.

 

By the rules, the Land Raider is placed legally on the bottom floor of the ruins and the owner must make a dangerous terrain check for the vehicle. End of story.

[Grey Mage]

If he could just simply place on the ground floor, without putting it through a wall, then why did this even come up eh? If it could fit anywhere else why would he say it was being placed on the 3rd floor?

[Zynk Kaladin]

*rubs chin*

 

Well, the Emperor decided to hit Sanguinius with the nurf-stick to be fair to the enemy so he DEMANDS the 30 Ton tank lose to ruins. So shall it be done!

 

He also demands victory in adverse situations... BY HIS WILL!

[Arkio]

Because he did not understand the deep strike in the first place

[Grey Mage]

Because he did not understand the deep strike in the first place

*slaps himself*

 

Ahh. Im sorry, I was going under the idea that the only way to fit it on the lateral space it was supposed to be in was to move it vertically aswell.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think we are done now with this one.

 

;)

 

0b <_<

[Arkio]

sorry grey mage, i should have elaborated. i was reffering to the individual who was going to place his land raider on the third story whereas the rules as they are written state that they land on the ground floor so the closest as it can be to the point and similarly to deep striking squads you can choose its orientation if you can place the center of the tank where it needs to be but its needs to be facing 90* from its original orientation i see nowhere in the rules where that is not permitted.