Attacking "skimmers/flyers"

[ipaintminis]

Hey there B&C community,

 

I had a situation come up last night in a "basement" game.

 

Combatitants: Me (Astartes), Her (Orks)

 

So she was playing a list with 4 Def Koptas. She deployed them within about 36inches of my Devestator squad, out in the open, perfect line of site.

 

I targeted them with my Heavies (4 ML, Sgt w/Targeter) and scored 4 Template hits on ALL 4 of the Def Koptas. Meaning that all 4 of the Templates hit multiple models. I think only 1 template didn't score on at least 2 of the models.

 

This literally occurred on the first turn, which was totally sweet for me and should have cost her 3 of the 4 models since I only failed the roll on the template that hit a single model.

 

So, now ensues the whining, and that I wasn't following the rules, which I'll confess were kind of fuzzy to me. So I guess I just need clarification on what units can take out skimmers/flyers/jetbikes.

 

I looked through the 5th Ed rules and couldn't find anything that would affect or prevent even a scout squad from firing on a unit of this type.

 

Can someone help me out here with where ANY of the rule books and Codices that might defend or refute my opponent's statement.

 

The game was totally screwed as while I wasn't willing to budge, none of the "rules monkeys" would take either side, and she just decided to be "the complainer" the rest of the night.

 

Now I know I could have budged and compromised, and it was a teenie-bopper girl fairly new to the game, so I'll take heat for that, and did last night. Still, no one could produce anything that validated her position.

 

Thanks,

 

-BJC

[awfulawful]

I don't really understand the exact circumstances, or exactly what your opponent was complaining about.

 

It sounds like you fired four frag missiles (should have used crack - no armor save and instant death), and scored a number of hits on the unit. It sounds like you then rolled fairly well for wounds, but you don't say anything about how she allocated those wounds (koptas are all 2 wound models) or how she did with her armor saves.

 

If her complaint was really just about certain unit types not being allowed to shoot at the koptas, then I have no idea what she was talking about. If your Devs could see the koptas, then they could shoot at, and kill, them. No rules prohibit that.

[mowglie]

Can someone help me out here with where ANY of the rule books and Codices that might defend or refute my opponent's statement.

 

First, isn't this a rules question rather than a tactics one?

 

Second, I suspect we're not getting the whole story here.

 

First of all, you say you hit her deffkoptas with around 8 frag missile hits and scored around 7 wounds.

 

How well did her armor saves go?

 

Did she get a cover save from turbo-boosting in her scout move?

 

Since Deffkoptas have two wounds each, 7 wounds before saves "should" cost her 2 rather than 3 of the 4 models. Possibly fewer if she had a cover save and/or could play any wound allocation games.

 

If the devs had LoS and were in range there's certainly nothing preventing them shooting, but like I say I suspect there's something we've not been told yet.

[ipaintminis]

First, isn't this a rules question rather than a tactics one?

Ummm, possibly, my apologies for mis-posting

 

First of all, you say you hit her deffkoptas with around 8 frag missile hits and scored around 7 wounds.

Correct 7 woulds caused. 6 woulds caused on 3 koptas, 1 would caused on 1 kopta.

 

How well did her armor saves go?

She failed ALL of her saving throws.

 

Did she get a cover save from turbo-boosting in her scout move?

No

 

Since Deffkoptas have two wounds each, 7 wounds before saves "should" cost her 2 rather than 3 of the 4 models. Possibly fewer if she had a cover save and/or could play any wound allocation games.

Understood, but her would allocation cost her 3 of the koptas with 1 left with a single wound on it.

 

At least this is how I remember it. Like I said, she was having a bad dice night (we all have them) and it had put her in a pretty bad mood so she was challenging everything.

 

I don't have a problem being wrong, I just wanted to clarify that my tactics of taking the koptas out right away since she did place them (tactics! Aha!) right in my LoS and Range wasn't an issue as far as the "rules" go.

 

Thanks again!

 

-BJC

[Seahawk]

Bikes of all sorts are simply infantry with a faster move, in terms of shooting. In 40k, anything can shoot anything with zero penalties. You completed your shooting correctly.

 

The only exceptions are flyers, which are the Forgeworld models and the valkyrie (when using FW rules at least). These need 6's to hit, reduce the range of your weapons by 12", and cannot be hit by anything with a template (template, blast, large blast).

 

Bad dice caused bad mood, we all get that sometimes. Nuff said :lol:

[mowglie]

She failed ALL of her saving throws.

 

Ouch. I'd be in a pretty bad mood after that!

[ipaintminis]

Thanks all. That's what I figured, and based on review of the rules that's what I thought.

 

Bad tactics on her part to start those guys out in the open and the Dice decided to roll in my favor, there's a first for everything...wish that would happen in an RT. :huh:

[awfulawful]

Correct 7 wounds caused...

She failed ALL of her saving throws.

 

Nice! Paint some kill markings on those missile launchers my friend.

 

Again, you broke no rules, and deserve credit for standing your ground against a complaint you felt was incorrect, but at the same time you were not a jerk about it. Well played.

[Grey Mage]

Yep... theres no rules restricting any unit in normal 40k from shooting any other unit it has range and line of sight to.

 

Now, obviously there are some guns that just arent strong enough to hurt vehicles, or T8, but otherwise... the field is open.

 

If she wanted to live, she should have used cover.