Plasma or lascannon on Dread?

[FenixAstartia]

So, let's get to it then.

 

I am a newbie to the 40k boardgame, but i got alot of experince with the fluff.

 

I have chosen to start a homgrown SM chapter and i need some advice on what to put on one of my dreads.

 

I'm thinking on using one as a long-range unit, using missiles for infantry and supression (advice on this would be good too) and using a plasma cannon vs tanks.

 

But i'm having second thougths, wondering if a lascannon might do the Plasma cannons job better.

 

I haven't bought the codex yet but i need some quick answers and can thus only relate to the rulebook.

 

So what are you veterans thoughts on this?

 

Thanks for any answer, except ban warnings...

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

Plasma cannon on venerable dreadnought.

 

or just give a normal dread a lascannon ;)

[Xeonic]

Plasma cannons are infantry destroyers, small blast, S7 and AP2 means they wound almost all infantry I can think of on a 2+(nurgle bikers at T6 on a 3+), and ignore any armor saves. Plasma cannon can at best be used against vehicles up to AV13(armor pen is strength of the weapon plus a D6, 7+6 is 13, so you can glance AV13), but the nature of blast weapons makes them less suitable for shooting at vehicles, and specifically vehicles with a small footprint on the table(due to scatter). I personally don't shoot at anything more armored than a rhino with mine if possible. On a dread they never "get's hot" and blow up, always a good thing.

 

The missile/plasma combo is a good one on a dread, vs heavy infantry, monstrous creatures, or light vehicles, you have a plasma blast and a single S8 AP3 krak shot, and vs low toughness hordes you can drop two blast templates. It's a versatile setup that can have great impact on the table.

 

The las/missile setup is the traditional armor destroyer, the remarkably accurate S9 lascannon coupled with the S8 kraks mean you can fire at any target on the table with a fair chance of hurting it.

[FenixAstartia]

A plasma/missile dread and a las/missle dread would give me the abillity to tackle all forms of enemies at long range then, as long as i got some termies or LotDs to keep the enemy away and soak up the fire.

 

Edit:

A plasma/missile would be very effective against 'nids i guess.

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

yeah but one of the dreadnoughts strengths is its str10 DCCW. so effectively if you're stuck in melee you're now just a big tin can speedbump, One of the downsides to replacing the DCCW with a ranged weapon.

[FenixAstartia]

Could i skip the missiles on the lascannon dread then, using a fist+flamer, or does it lose alot of it's AT abillities then?

[Xeonic]

Well, at range, yes, but up close the S10 DCCW can flatten any armored target with ease. ;)

[Jackelope King]

Plasma cannons are NOT anti-tank. They have S7 and modest range going for them (far better than the plasma rifle or plasma pistol) but no rate of fire, half S if they scatter off of a tank, and AP2 (which means you can't kill on a glance). Autocannons overcome being S7AP4 because they have that extra 12" of range and have twice the rate of fire (in addition to being very cost-effective).

 

Plasma cannons are barely anti-infantry, and Nids in particular laugh at them. One shot, small blast. A good Nid opponent will have 50+ T6 Sv3+ wounds to shoot through. Good luck shooting through that with a plasma cannon.

 

For lascannons, you do sorta want to mass them if possible. Once you start getting multiple las-cannons, then they start being a threat.

 

As far as replacing the DCCW with a ranged weapon... are you planning on using it as part of your firebase or marching forward? If you're marching forward, just go with a dirt-standard MM/DCCW Dreadnought. That multi-melta has a nice threat-range on a Dread, it's pretty cheap all-told, and if taken in numbers, they're actually nasty. If you're going to be using them for a firebase, then take the twin weapon systems. If the enemy has already reached your firebase, you've probably messed up bigtime anyway.

[FenixAstartia]

Would it work to use a ironclad with muti-melta and fist+melta for close combat AT, leaving an missile/assult for cleaning up infantery, i could guess it's blast and rending effects could pack quite a punch.

 

The Plasma cannon seems rather ineffective, appearing to only be good at dealing with heavy infantery it's inflexibility makes it bad in small fights and in larger battles it's role can be filled by other, more effective units.

 

Also, forgive me but what does DCCW stand for?

 

Would it work to use a ironclad with muti-melta and fist+melta for close combat AT, leaving an missile/assult for cleaning up infantery, i could guess it's blast and rending effects could pack quite a punch.

 

The Plasma cannon seems rather ineffective, appearing to only be good at dealing with heavy infantery it's inflexibility makes it bad in small fights and in larger battles it's role can be filled by other, more effective units.

 

Also, forgive me but what does DCCW stand for?

[Brother_Dan'l]

Ironclads can't have a Multi-melta. You could have a regular or Venerable with a Multi and DCCW w/Heavy Flamer. It's very good in Vulkan led armies and fair in others. It would certainly be good in a Drop Pod.

 

Plasma Cannons are fun if you face hordes or someone who likes to Teleport Terminators. But otherwise you are right, it's not very efficient.

Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon

[minigun762]

I kinda like the Missile/PC Dread because of the reasons Xeonic mentioned.

Its not pure anti-tank but its a fairly flexibile weapon loadout and its almost always cheap enough to be added to any given list.

[Warprat]

Plasma cannons are VERY effective against any grouped up infantry. I love popping transports and hittling the huddled mass of passengers. It's just like hitting fish in a barrel, really! Plasma cannons on dreads have the advantage of not having to worry about Gets Hot, and the ability to move to where they can get a visual on thier target. Which static infantry can have problems with, as most units try to hide from something as powerful as a plasma blast. Most infantry targets do not get a save, and are wounded on a 2+.

 

You do have to worry about scatter, but nothing good comes without a price. Plasma cannons destroy infantry, period. If you use it on vehicles, it won't do so good. So you need something on another unit to pop the armor. It's a combined arms type weapon.

 

Warprat ;)

[Neisseria]

Sorry to semi-hijack the thread but this is the perfect place to post a related question.

 

What would you guys suggest in terms of Dreadnought armament for fighting Tau and Chaos Daemons? My Tau opponent likes his Devilfish and Hammerhead, but if I tool up the Dread too heavily for popping them then it'll become a horribly obvious target (and he's very clever with his Fire Warriors too, so need something for anti-troops). And as for Daemons, mostly fighting squads of Horrors, Bloodletters and Daemonettes with some Seekers thrown in - the problem with them being the Invulnerable Saves. To complicate matters, on occassion I play against a big Ork horde too. In a 4th-edition army I had a lascannon-armed "sniper" Dread and was always fairly disappointed with its performance, but that was mostly against Orks and Necrons at the time, so that was probably a mistake on my part!

 

It might not be possible to find a well-rounded solution in one model, but I'm planning on using a Forgeworld Dread (the Chaplain Venerable) because I think it looks amazing, so I don't want to get it "wrong" due to the expense involved. I can always get another plastic one later (either normal flavour or Ironclad) but this one should obviously be the "champion" in my army. To put this Dread into heavy weapon perspective, I'm also planning a Dev squad with lascannons/plasma cannons and a Razorback with assault cannons (to drive around my Sternguard). Any hints?

[GreatEscape_13]

Assault Cannon plus Missile Launcher. Opponents will scoff, but this beauty pays off time and again for me. The AC is a good compromise between vehicles and infantry, backed up with the MC and you've got all sorts of options.

 

Anyhow, my $0.02.

 

Cheers.

[minigun762]

Not a bad idea and you could go with venerable for the BS5

Edit: the other option is the standard rifle man. Four S7 shots should keep any tank stunned if not read and you'll wound any daemon troop on 2+

[Grey Mage]

Could i skip the missiles on the lascannon dread then, using a fist+flamer, or does it lose alot of it's AT abillities then?

It does not. The ML shot is very much secondairy, and a TLLC will rarely miss. Very good stuff.

 

The HF lets it deal reliably with infantry that would otherwise tarpit him.

[DarkGuard]

Could i skip the missiles on the lascannon dread then, using a fist+flamer, or does it lose alot of it's AT abillities then?

It does not. The ML shot is very much secondairy, and a TLLC will rarely miss. Very good stuff.

 

The HF lets it deal reliably with infantry that would otherwise tarpit him.

 

Carrying on from Grey Mage I myself used to use a TL-LC with a DCCW and heavy flamer, and it performed admirably. Normally I'd use a TL-LC Razorback as well, and together I could reliably take out a tank or two each turn. The beauty with this Dread is that it's lascannon is almost guaranteed to hit, and with it's high strength it will easily punch through light armour. The DCCW and heavy flamer then give you a bit of punch at close range, and allows it to cope in combat. While this may not seem too attractive at first, the fact that that Dreadnought is now keeping your opponent's unit off your objective is very handy.

[Gothical]

If I can randomly hijack this thread too (seems to be a trend around here!) with a related question...

 

I had a crazy idea (mainly for a conversion) - I've been thinking perhaps a TL-Autocannon and Plasma Cannon Dreadnought?

 

Not quite up to par with the Rifleman (pairs of Autocannons), but it can take on a wider variety of foes - both horde-like and armoured, with only a slight reduction in anti-transport capacity (which can be debatable in some cases, such as Ork Trukks which are open-topped).

 

It still has 2 hyper-accurate Str7 shots to take out Rhinos, and on anything that large the Plasma Cannon isn't too much of a liability. But the Plasma Cannon allows the Dreadnought to tackle different targets once the transports are dead (or the opponent didn't bring them/out of LOS etc).

 

What do you think, a crazy idea that might just be viable (and look good), or have a rethink?

[Brother_Fatiswon]

the TLLC/DCCW+HFL is scary at both ends of the field. run a pair with Extra armor, yeah, looks like in need place an order for some bits... and another pair of aobr 'reads. I think I'd like to try a Pair of TLHFL+HFL+DCCW rushing the middle of the board, running a screen or working as a form of flank refusal.

@GreatEscapes, i would find the spare 60 and Ven it, so all your dice hit on 2+, in fact, IMHO, any dread, that's not twin linked should be ran as a Ven.

[minigun762]

@GreatEscapes, i would find the spare 60 and Ven it, so all your dice hit on 2+, in fact, IMHO, any dread, that's not twin linked should be ran as a Ven.

 

I agree with this advice for the Multi-Melta and Assault Cannon but I think you can get by on the Plasma Cannon. You're still BS4 and since its a blast weapon, the upgrade to BS5 is less significant and you lose out on the WS5 bonus since you lack the DCCW.

 

I think a TL Autocannon/Plasma Cannon Dread would be a good compromise. Its not quite as optimal against transports but it will serve better against Terminators and MCs. All in all, the two weapons are similar enough that you'll never be totally wasting the other by shooting at the same target.

[Ming]

I've thinking venerable with S7 plasma cannon, S10 DCCW, and S4 flamer...but will build with magnets for flexibility with the "box o parts".