Blood Angels Questions

[Khavos]

This brings up an interesting point: The Lamenters are a Blood Angels successor chapter who have managed to breed out the genetic deficiencies of the Black Rage and Blood Thirst. So, strictly speaking, the Blood Angels codex could not be used for them.

[Deschenus Maximus]

Yeah. Just when I make my peace with the fact that my HQ in my list would suck unless I used one of the named space vampires, I start hearing about this Red Thirst rule that apparently all the BAs have. That would make it a bit difficult to use the BA codex while going, "No, seriously, these guys aren't space vampire geneseed. What? What's that? They're drinking blood right now? Still. Not space vampires, honest."

 

 

Just don't roll for Red Thrist when you play. God knows I forget often enough to do so.

 

Or make up some other fluffy reason why they have the effects of Red Thirst. For example, they are a very zealous chapter, and on the eve of battle, certain squads take up vows to avenge wrongs done to them by the enemy... or die trying. Hence they get FC and Fearless.

 

I'm still personnaly trying to find a fluff reason for my Sang Priests that doesn't involve pimp cups imbued with a psychic presence...

[SnorriSnorrison]

Yeah. Just when I make my peace with the fact that my HQ in my list would suck unless I used one of the named space vampires, I start hearing about this Red Thirst rule that apparently all the BAs have. That would make it a bit difficult to use the BA codex while going, "No, seriously, these guys aren't space vampire geneseed. What? What's that? They're drinking blood right now? Still. Not space vampires, honest."

 

Just don´t play Blood Angels and keep to Vanilla marines, and all is well. :devil:

 

 

Snorri

[Volcatus]

Just a note on the Red Thirst thing; If blood drinking is the sole item people cite for calling Blood Angels "space vampires", they should stop reading Twilight after their Mother gives them their milk and cookies. ;)

 

The Red Thirst is a battle-lust. Nothing more. Like the mire-catha, in the respect that drinking the blood of ones enemies instilled a frenzied state upon the warrior. The enemies of the Scots and Celts were terrified of them when they reached such a state. The enemies of the Angels of Death do the same.

 

BA aren't alergic to garlic (put some on the squads you want to save from Mephiston and see what happens). We walk in the light. A wooden stake to the heart will only kill us if you use two, like any other loyal Astartes. ;) And we don't have to sleep in the sand of Baal in order to rejuvenate. At the end of the day we are noble demi-gods, the same as any other Astartes. The Flaw merely tempers our humility.

[Ranwulf]

Cannibals and Barbarians have a different connection with blood, and in my opnion, Blood Angels are not Space Vampires, they are:

"Aesthetically pleaseant blood seeking berserkers".

 

Not vampires.

 

Ran

[Morticon]

Just a note on the Red Thirst thing; If blood drinking is the sole item people cite for calling Blood Angels "space vampires", they should stop reading Twilight after their Mother gives them their milk and cookies. ;)

 

The Red Thirst is a battle-lust. Nothing more. Like the mire-catha, in the respect that drinking the blood of ones enemies instilled a frenzied state upon the warrior. The enemies of the Scots and Celts were terrified of them when they reached such a state. The enemies of the Angels of Death do the same.

 

BA aren't alergic to garlic (put some on the squads you want to save from Mephiston and see what happens). We walk in the light. A wooden stake to the heart will only kill us if you use two, like any other loyal Astartes. ;) And we don't have to sleep in the sand of Baal in order to rejuvenate. At the end of the day we are noble demi-gods, the same as any other Astartes. The Flaw merely tempers our humility.

 

 

Awesome post.

 

Win.

[The Smiling Bandit]

Just a note on the Red Thirst thing; If blood drinking is the sole item people cite for calling Blood Angels "space vampires", they should stop reading Twilight after their Mother gives them their milk and cookies. :angry:

 

Unfortunately, it's not the sole reason.

 

IA Blood Angels has them sleeping in sarcophagi, civilians turning up drained of blood around their garrisons, Blood Angels living even longer than other Space Marines and remaining young in appearance, and there's an awful lot of widow's peak hairlines running around. Not to mention little gems like this: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Custom...nzo_873x627.jpg

 

Fangs? Dreadnoughts with fangs, too? And earlier editions of the game had them stopping to drink the blood of the fallen if they failed a roll in assault.

 

So no. Red Thirst isn't the sole reason people have for suggesting that the Blood Angels are space vampires. It's just one of many, and it's an actual game mechanic.

[Terrahawk]

The whole Vampire deal is one of those things that really divides us players, both us BA fanatics here on this board and also other places.

 

Are the Blood Angels Vampires then? Yes and no.

 

It is obvious that the classic Vampire tale has been a major influence on the Chapter's background: the Red Thirst, in addition to being an unstoppable battle fury, can also lead to drinking the blood of your enemies, there is the whole Exsanguination deal, Sarcophagis, appreciation of art, longer life spans, our Lord of Death etc. Most of which is reprinted in our latest Codex and/or IA: Blood Angels (2010) on GW's website. On the other hand, we don't have to fear the sunlight, garlic, wooden stakes or screaming girls (sorry couldn't resist :P).

 

So I'd say in the case of the Blood Angels a classic tale is taken and given a whole new spin in the 40k context. In fact while our situation exhibits the common properties of Vampirism, it is more accurate to call it a flaw in the geneseed than Vampirism. On the other hand calling BAs Vampires isn't that far from the truth, while not basically semantically correct.

 

What causes the most problems though is the fact that labeling BAs simply as Vampires leaves out the other important aspects of our Chapter. This is why I think many BA players resent the whole Vampire label. It doesn't do us justice as the most noble of Astartes or us as the Angels of Death. Like with many other Chapters, the BAs are an amalgamation of many different ideas and themes and while "Vampirism" is one them it is not the only one. Because our background is a sum of many things, which in my opinion makes it so great, there's also a lot of room to see the Chapter differently. And I feel each way is as valid as the other.

 

If you don't want to call your Blood Angels Space Vampires you don't have to and if you do... well there's nothing wrong with that either. :blink:

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

Also, from the creation of space marines and their implants comes the following text: (quoted from: Lexicanum Creation of a Space Marine)

 

Omophagea

Phase 8: This implant allows a Space Marine to 'learn by eating'. It is situated in the spinal cord but is actually part of the brain. Four nerve bundles are implanted connecting the spine and the stomach wall. Able to 'read' or absorb genetic material consumed by the marine, the omophagea transmits the gained information to the Marine's brain as a set of memories or experiences. It is the presence of this organ which has lead to the various flesh-eating and blood-drinking rituals for which the Astartes are famous, as well as giving names to chapters such as the Blood Drinkers and Flesh Tearers. Over time, mutations in this implant have given some chapters unnatural craving for blood or flesh.

 

Also, the references to blood drinking and such have been toned down a LOT in the recent codex. I think only 1 later founding chapter is still described as doing it on a regular basis (not sure if it were the Knights of Blood or the Blood Drinkers) and for the rest the Red Thirst and Black Rage have become more of a general bloodlust in battle instead of an actual lust to drink blood.

Example: Flesh Tearers were one of those chapters that used to be described as horrible blood drinkers. Now they are described as loosing themselves to the Black Rage more often than other chapters and sometimes not stopping when a battle is done, turning on their former allies to kill them as well (important: kill, not drink their blood).

Chapter Master Gabriel Seth tries to combat this by leading his Flesh Tearers to nearly always fight alone and unsupported. This limits the risk of them turning on their allies once the bloodlust is still not sated at the end of battle.

 

Their current description makes them more noble berzerkers than that they are blood drinking bezerkers.

[Volcatus]

Just a note on the Red Thirst thing; If blood drinking is the sole item people cite for calling Blood Angels "space vampires", they should stop reading Twilight after their Mother gives them their milk and cookies. :D

 

Unfortunately, it's not the sole reason.

 

IA Blood Angels has them sleeping in sarcophagi, civilians turning up drained of blood around their garrisons, Blood Angels living even longer than other Space Marines and remaining young in appearance, and there's an awful lot of widow's peak hairlines running around. Not to mention little gems like this: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Custom...nzo_873x627.jpg

 

Fangs? Dreadnoughts with fangs, too? And earlier editions of the game had them stopping to drink the blood of the fallen if they failed a roll in assault.

 

So no. Red Thirst isn't the sole reason people have for suggesting that the Blood Angels are space vampires. It's just one of many, and it's an actual game mechanic.

 

The direct and indirect vampire references have indeed been toned down in the latest fluff. And in case you missed the ^_^, I'll point out that the quote you used was intended to be sarcastic.

 

One of the intents of my post was to give the OP a way to get past the implied vampirism, and perhaps make a DIY Chapter based on our 'Dex that isn't a successor. A few tweaks here and there and you have a more rage/beserker flavored army. Heck, Chaos players use our 'Dex. It should be even easier to justify a non-BA DIY Chapter using it.

[Mudpuppet]

Just a note on the Red Thirst thing; If blood drinking is the sole item people cite for calling Blood Angels "space vampires", they should stop reading Twilight after their Mother gives them their milk and cookies. :D

 

The Red Thirst is a battle-lust. Nothing more. Like the mire-catha, in the respect that drinking the blood of ones enemies instilled a frenzied state upon the warrior. The enemies of the Scots and Celts were terrified of them when they reached such a state. The enemies of the Angels of Death do the same.

 

BA aren't alergic to garlic (put some on the squads you want to save from Mephiston and see what happens). We walk in the light. A wooden stake to the heart will only kill us if you use two, like any other loyal Astartes. ^_^ And we don't have to sleep in the sand of Baal in order to rejuvenate. At the end of the day we are noble demi-gods, the same as any other Astartes. The Flaw merely tempers our humility.

 

QFT!

[Arkio]

Also, isn't the Red Thirst pretty much the defining "BAs are vampires" rule?

 

 

no. no. no and no. the red thirst is the effect from the manner in which sanguinius was slain on horus' battle barge, the marines feel a strong pull to engage the enemy(ies) is close quarter combat where we can focus our anger and purge xenos and heretics alike

 

do we have a fair amount of established vampiric acrhetypes and imagrey sure. did most BA players appriciate gw painting fangs on lorenzo i dont think so. IT seems to me you are looking for an excuse not to play BA and are expecting us to convince you otherwise.

[BrotherMoses]

Sorry Brother Arkio. The Black Rage was caused by the death of Sanguinious. The Red Thirst came from elsewhere.

[Leonaides]

No, originally they cam eform the same thing - the death of Sang at the hands of Horus.

[BrotherMoses]

Really? I've never read anything expressly stating the origins of the Red Thirst. I just read the 3rd edition codex for insight and found nothing conclusive regarding the Red Thirst. If you've got the Angels of Death codex, or another source that would be cool if you could quote for me.

[Ranwulf]

Actually Moses, you are right, the Red Thirst comes from the Flaw of the Blood Angels geneseed. While the Black Rage is Sanguinius Psyker Scream of Death.

 

Ran

[Leonaides]

Edit - My bad (totally). C:AoD says that The flaw (no differentiation between BR and RT at this point) is thought to be either:

a ) Sang being touched by Chaos when they stole the Primarchs

b ) the method of marine creation (this is where it goes on about how the blood kept in the veins of teh Sang priests could be degrading)

c ) Due to teh highly irradiated environment of Baal leading to an inevitable certain amount of mutation

 

At this point the flaw makes some marines become beset with visions of death, some may even believe that they are Sang during the Heresy, others are afflicted by the Red Thirst, a terrible craving for blood. Interestingly enough, on re-reading teh entry background for the DC (on pg 21 if you want to have a look) the reason for the memories of Sang appear to be genetic memories. Raising the possibilty that the Black Rage might have affected the BA's even without the rest of the flaw (ie: no genetic degradation or Red Thirst). Anyone else care to read the relevant bits and share their thoughts on this bit? Should the guys affected by the Black Rage survive battle, then they almost always fall victim to the Red Thirst.

[TrentL]

One thing I love about being new to 40k (Even at 34 years old) is I don't have to listen, believe or even acknowledge old Fluff. I work from Edition to Edition... if for whatever reason Blood Angels all sprout feathered wings, loose black rage, and gain hit and run or somethign else.

 

Then that's the fluff I"ll play by... its YOUR army you can have your blood thirsty vampires, mine?

 

I do see mine as Vampires... but then again I don't believe in pansy #$# Vampires that sparkle and crap like that either. Vampires are monsters, vampires are immortal killers who stalk the night, sure Vampires like Art, and they tend to have more ornate armor than other chapters... but call them on it... see how long you last against one.

 

I like mythology of Vamps always has... sadly Twilight has turned the world totally stupid... I prefer to think of them more like those from True Blood, Anne Rice etc..

 

Anyway if you don't like that angle but you like how they play? There is nothing stopping you from playing Raven Guard with the Blood Angels codex, or any other "DIY" chapter. And I have yet to make a red thirst roll... I've tried in over 15 games... haven't rolled a single 1 :)

[Brother Nathan]

If anyone is gonna say they are like vampires then really they would be like blade in powerarmour... now thats a thought for my next hq...