Sang Gaurd

[bloodancient]

So played first game of planetstrike this weekend at 3000 pts also the first time i used SG. I've changed my mind and I think that if you have the points available they are the way to go. Make one hell of a clean up crew. DS them behind cover shoot the hell out of everything and bring them in on the flank and start cleaning up the field. Ran'em with the priest for the charge.

 

And yes i'm sure i could have gone with HG but i don't have any. Never had to use FNP and the re-roll to wound helped. Sorry if i busted any bubbles but i still think if you have the points they are worth it.

[Ranwulf]

So played first game of planetstrike this weekend at 3000 pts also the first time i used SG. I've changed my mind and I think that if you have the points available they are the way to go. Make one hell of a clean up crew. DS them behind cover shoot the hell out of everything and bring them in on the flank and start cleaning up the field. Ran'em with the priest for the charge.

 

And yes i'm sure i could have gone with HG but i don't have any. Never had to use FNP and the re-roll to wound helped. Sorry if i busted any bubbles but i still think if you have the points they are worth it.

 

I think Honor Guard, compared to Sanguinary Guard are horrible. Sv 2+ is a blessing against Leman Russes, and adding a Librarian with Shield of Sanguinius even better!

 

Ran

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I also think that SG are much better than HG. Sure HG have the priest built in but when you start adding in all the toys the points cost can go through the roof.

 

0b :wub:

[Ranwulf]

I also think that SG are much better than HG. Sure HG have the priest built in but when you start adding in all the toys the points cost can go through the roof.

 

0b :D

 

Yeah, and if you think of it, SG already come with Power Weapons! So they already have a good cost.

 

Ran

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Exactly plus their master crafted which helps to make up for the lack of +1A. And you can always take the banner too.

 

:)

 

0b :D

[Aramis_the_Red]

So played first game of planetstrike this weekend at 3000 pts also the first time i used SG. I've changed my mind and I think that if you have the points available they are the way to go. Make one hell of a clean up crew. DS them behind cover shoot the hell out of everything and bring them in on the flank and start cleaning up the field. Ran'em with the priest for the charge.

 

And yes i'm sure i could have gone with HG but i don't have any. Never had to use FNP and the re-roll to wound helped. Sorry if i busted any bubbles but i still think if you have the points they are worth it.

 

I think Honor Guard, compared to Sanguinary Guard are horrible. Sv 2+ is a blessing against Leman Russes, and adding a Librarian with Shield of Sanguinius even better!

 

Ran

 

That's assuming a lack of SS in an HG unit, and any unit short of termies benefits from having a shield Libby with them.

 

I like both units, the reason I like HG more is the flexibility and the fact that they don't take up a conventional force org slot. HG can quite literally do everything SG can just as well if not better than an SG can(unless you're fielding Dante, then SG are scoring which HG can't do), and they can also do a number of things that SG can't. One such thing is reliable tank and MC hunting. SG's abilities in that regard are a joke by comparison. The ammount of plasma and melta love HG can put out makes those infernus and plasma pistol options for SG laughable at best, especially when you consider that Glaives are a 2 handed weapon and as such gain no benefit from a pistol.

 

Also, the SG unit is less survivable than HG in many ways. Yes, they have a 2+ save, but they have no access to invulnerable saves. Whereas when you compare HG, they have a built in hidden priest(which not only adds to the units defense via fnp, but also gives a massive offensive boost via FC), and 4 out of 5 models in the unit have the ability to take storm shields. Sure, the SG can take an attached priest, but this comes to a cost of not only an additional 75 points(jp), but also a force org slot and an additional kill point. Not to mention, in a small unit like SG, it is much easier to get units in b2b with the priest and single him out with pw attacks.

 

I like the SG, I really do. They are fluffy, fun, and the models are gorgeous, but they really don't compare to HG on a competitive basis.

 

Sorry for the novel,

 

-A

[Aramis_the_Red]

I also think that SG are much better than HG. Sure HG have the priest built in but when you start adding in all the toys the points cost can go through the roof.

 

0b :D

 

By comparison, they come out about the same. A kitted out jump pack equipped HG comes out in the 250-300 point range, and a SG squad with a fist and a couple of pistols plus a priest w/ pack comes out to 305. And honestly, w/o the priest there is no comparison as the hg will easily out perform them.

 

And really, say you want to make them as close as possible, an HG with 4 lc's and packs is 225 points. That puts them right on par(a little better actually) with a SG unit damage wise, and better than them defensively.

[Ranwulf]

So played first game of planetstrike this weekend at 3000 pts also the first time i used SG. I've changed my mind and I think that if you have the points available they are the way to go. Make one hell of a clean up crew. DS them behind cover shoot the hell out of everything and bring them in on the flank and start cleaning up the field. Ran'em with the priest for the charge.

 

And yes i'm sure i could have gone with HG but i don't have any. Never had to use FNP and the re-roll to wound helped. Sorry if i busted any bubbles but i still think if you have the points they are worth it.

 

I think Honor Guard, compared to Sanguinary Guard are horrible. Sv 2+ is a blessing against Leman Russes, and adding a Librarian with Shield of Sanguinius even better!

 

Ran

 

That's assuming a lack of SS in an HG unit, and any unit short of termies benefits from having a shield Libby with them.

 

I like both units, the reason I like HG more is the flexibility and the fact that they don't take up a conventional force org slot. HG can quite literally do everything SG can just as well if not better than an SG can(unless you're fielding Dante, then SG are scoring which HG can't do), and they can also do a number of things that SG can't. One such thing is reliable tank and MC hunting. SG's abilities in that regard are a joke by comparison. The ammount of plasma and melta love HG can put out makes those infernus and plasma pistol options for SG laughable at best, especially when you consider that Glaives are a 2 handed weapon and as such gain no benefit from a pistol.

 

Also, the SG unit is less survivable than HG in many ways. Yes, they have a 2+ save, but they have no access to invulnerable saves. Whereas when you compare HG, they have a built in hidden priest(which not only adds to the units defense via fnp, but also gives a massive offensive boost via FC), and 4 out of 5 models in the unit have the ability to take storm shields. Sure, the SG can take an attached priest, but this comes to a cost of not only an additional 75 points(jp), but also a force org slot and an additional kill point. Not to mention, in a small unit like SG, it is much easier to get units in b2b with the priest and single him out with pw attacks.

 

I like the SG, I really do. They are fluffy, fun, and the models are gorgeous, but they really don't compare to HG on a competitive basis.

 

Sorry for the novel,

 

-A

 

The Honor Guard cost, is for 5 guys, with Maximum of 4 Special Weapons, 225 points. I would rather use a Assault Squad for 3 Meltas and 10 guys. If you wish to Tank Hunt, of course. SG main advantage is the 2+ Save, and 5 Master Crafted Power Weapons. I still rather use a 2+ save that only Special Weapons can pass, while a 3+ is a Leman Russ shot, and if you are hitted by that, you can say bye to the Honour Guard, and with so many IG armies out there I would rather use the Sanguinary Guard.

 

I have to say for their price, I rather get Sanguinary Guard, better save, with a good amount of twinks are death machine and FAR more resilient.

 

Ran

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

With the 2+ save the SG are for all intensive purposes a squad of flying termies sans the 5++ save. SG come with a master crafted power weapon stock. That's pretty darn good for the cost. Most players are running Priests anyways so you might as well attach one to the SG. I think a lot of people here are coming to realize that Dante is actually one of the better choices for an HQ, the SG make for a perfect retinue since everyone has artificer armor. SG are fearless as well so you don't have to worry about them ever running away when you need them the most unlike HG. The power fist comes at a discounted price for SG as well plus they can take the Chapter banner and then you have your +1A. They only lack an invulnerable save but I have found that most often it's not missed and the 2+ save is actually better. Couple that with a priest and they are practically impervious to small arms fire such as bolters and lasguns. Being able to field them as a troop choice is very powerful as they are much more resilient than HG/assault squad. They can ignore stuff like Leman Russ battle tanks with ease. To me the main advantage of HG is you can run them in a transport for added protection. If you want to take stuff like stormshields, power fists and lightning claws the best choice is the VV. sure they probably won't have furious charge BUT I think they can do just fine without it really. The infernus pistol coupled with a jump pack means you should always be able to move into 1/2 range when firing the hand melta so to me the meltagun is redundant. I'd much rather have a power sword and melta pistol.

 

0b B)

[Aramis_the_Red]

@Ob

 

I agree that SG are a good choice, all I was saying is that HG are also an equally effective choice, and in some ways a better one. Personally, I'd take a lightning claw any day over a glaive encarmine.

 

I agree on most points about SG, and if you are running Dante, they are often a superior, especially for a retinue. However in a non Dante list, SG are taking an elites slot in an army that elites are already a highly contested area, which makes HG a more favorable choice.

 

Once again, I like SG, I just don't think they are superior to HG.

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

Just want to add: If you kit an HG to be as good in close combat as a SG squad with Priest and Banner, your HG will miss one thing: Firepower.

And the Angelus Boltgun really is often forgotten as an asset for the SG. The amount of firepower they can bring to fleshy units combined with their assault power really make them the ultimate troop killer.

 

That is what I've always felt about the 3 'elite' squads of the BA:

- SG are awesome fast troop killers

- Assault Termies are awesome hammer units

- Tactical Termies are all-round monsters

 

Use them in this way and all these squads will shine. Want to use an SG as tank hunters? Bad luck.

Trying to catch up on those bikes with your assault termies? bad luck

Sending your Tactical Termies against the main deathstar of the enemy? bad luck

 

Use the squad for what they are made for, and all of them will more than make up for their points.

 

So.. if I have a 2000 point list with 3 RAS tank hunting, who cares my SG can't tank hunt? They will mop up that annoying huge blob of troops on that back objective in 1 or 2 turns. That's what they are made for!

[SnorriSnorrison]

I agree with those who think SG better than HG.

Just yesterday I faced a very shooty(shooting only, to be precise) SM army. I lost one(!) Sanguinary Guard member to shooting, and that was because of a lascannon shot. And I didn´t even need the Sanguinary Priest to shake off 4 Frag missile launchers, Autocannon and hvy bolters from a predator, flamers, bolters and the like. Okay, in the end, they got charged by a very mad Sicarius(that shot Lemartes before...coward!) and died, but they are a great unit, if used correctly.

 

Snorri

[Deus_Sanguinius]

Once again, I like SG, I just don't think they are superior to HG.

 

Well, as already been said, this depends on their given task. In some points I would say SG are superior (troop killing, durability, scoring with Dante) and in other things HG are a better choice (versatility, no fog-slot). Depends all on your army and your plans for the unit. Both units are great. ;) Personally I would stick with the SG.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

One of the main places SG excel is with their reduced pistol cost coupled with Dante's hit and run to constantly hop out of combat, fire, and re-charge.

[Zealadin]

I think the main thing to understand is that these units are NOT the same, and comparisons which try and make them so are generally missing the point.

 

If you want to fill role X and you can choose HG who are role Z and SG who are role Y then you'll find one or the other is better or worse.

Ideally however you want to be putting them in the Z or Y role and putting an X unit into that original role.

[Volchek]

Use them to support each other. SG supported by a melta or plasma equipped HG with JP is a N-A-S-T-Y combo that just chews thru stuff. Keep the Novitiate in range of the SG for FNP and FC and OMG you have a rapidly moving death dealing buzzsaw...

[bloodancient]

So.. if I have a 2000 point list with 3 RAS tank hunting, who cares my SG can't tank hunt? They will mop up that annoying huge blob of troops on that back objective in 1 or 2 turns. That's what they are made for!

This is exactly what I think they are there for CC monsters you shoot the angelus then cleave with the glaive and destroy the units morale then advance to the next one works works works. And i know you can do other things with them to but the point is still the same clear the board of those basic assault units or troops because thats what there good at.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Here is a unit of Honor Guard I came up with today:

(jump packs & Chapter banner)

 

Noviatate

HG #1: pair of lightning claws

HG #2: lightning claw & stormshield

HG #3: lightning claw & stormshield

HG #4: power fist & stormshield

 

Very hard hitting in close combat. I don't see the need to bring meltas with this squad when you can pack 3 in an assault squad. Tool them out and let them do their thing in melee. Basically the same thought process as Brother Chaplain Devlonir. I am going to run this unit at a tournament this weekend in place of my VV and see how they perform.

 

0b :)

[Aramis_the_Red]

Once again, I like SG, I just don't think they are superior to HG.

 

Well, as already been said, this depends on their given task. In some points I would say SG are superior (troop killing, durability, scoring with Dante) and in other things HG are a better choice (versatility, no fog-slot). Depends all on your army and your plans for the unit. Both units are great. :) Personally I would stick with the SG.

 

Agreed, and personally I'll stick w/ the Honour Guard... Most of the time... Sometimes I'll take Sang instead, and I'll-

 

Use them to support each other. SG supported by a melta or plasma equipped HG with JP is a N-A-S-T-Y combo that just chews thru stuff. Keep the Novitiate in range of the SG for FNP and FC and OMG you have a rapidly moving death dealing buzzsaw...

 

This actually gives me ideas for a list... Maybe I finally will go all jumpers...

[GlauG]

As an aside, SG are much, much, MUCH improved in Planetstrike where they can DS and then Assault straight away, Vanguard style.

[Zealadin]

Whats planetstrike?

Reminds me of one of those GWS marketting concepts that died away after like.... 2 days :cuss

[Lord_Reven]

Personaly i prefer the HG over the SG. The reason being i can put the HG in a transport, something i can't do with the SG. This would just be my personal preference though, since i prefer the red-goes-faster tank rush over the all JP tactic.

One other reason i prefer the HG is the fact that it comes in with a free priest. What some ppl dont realise is that not only does this help out the HG, it helps your entire army within 6 of the HG. The SG, while indeed killy and tough as boots, does not help out the rest of your army the way the priest in the HG unit does.

[Arkio]

I run a no fist w/ death masks. i use them to hunt scarwny non invul save no powerweapon units and usually annihilate them,

 

yesterday charged a 15 man blood claw unit with a thirsting SG 3 were left alive. they manged to kill one and then get spattered in the sweep.

 

i also played a game where my libby could not get a power off due to hoods and the other unit got shot to bits. (2 units of SG) one with astorath & a banner, they were thirsting. and one with a jumppack libby with unleash rage and sheild of sang. i know i had some redundandcy with the rerolls to hit. but that seems to be my weak link on my dice rolls.

[Joasht]

There is probably quite a number of threads out there regarding this, but:

1) My search engine doesn't seem to work. Redirects me to some white page that say "you want to go here", which redirects me to the front page.

2) Opinions might have changed between the release of the book till now.

 

My kneejerk reaction when I first saw their rules was "lolz no invul at their points", due to my (admittedly) paranoia-induced love for Invulnerable saves on expensive models (Eldar is my main opponent since back in 3rd ed, so things like Howling Banshees are commonplace). However, after probing around on forums, blogs and watching some BeastsOfWar videos, I noticed that some people actually believe that the SG are awesome, despite their extremely steep cost, albeit often with the caveat of including Dante so that they are scoring.

 

So anyway, part of me wants to run out and buy some of the models right now (I've always liked the models anyway, just the rules held me back from buying something I might not use), but I want to make sure its worth the investment first, as I usually only play with models that I've finished painting and as WYSIWYG as I can get them to be; I don't mind people proxying against me, but I'm sort of a "I will play what I have at hand" sort of guy so proxying them to test them out isn't really an option at the moment.

 

I'd greatly appreciate any advice, experience, or even links to threads/blogs/videos/anything that might convince me to buy/not buy them.

 

Thanks!

[Leonaides]

how about considering them as a medium termie squad? They dont have the 5++, but the do have a 12" move. they dont have TH's or LC's but they do have access to PP's. IP's and angelus bolters. They still hit hard in CC, and can be made troops choices. Rather than focussing on what they havent got, take a good look at waht they have got and can do. And if you cant get teh drop on a squad of Banshees, then I'd suggest that you need to alter your target priorities or practice baiting them... Last time I faced them, I fed a 10-strong banshee squad a 5 man tactical squad (just bolters) then the LRC and AC pred ate them in a storm of close range gunfire. You just have to get in to the positon that if he doesnt charge your bait squad, you'll toast him in your next turn.