Why Play Blood Angels Over Space Wolves?

[Joasht]

This isn't really a rant thread, but a situation I'm in. I've always played Blood Angels in the past as my primary chapter (using my DIY chapter), and on and off toyed with Space Wolves, before I went out and bought myself an actual Space Wolf army. Now the thing is, over the years I've collected numerous vehicle kits (Drop Pods, Rhinos, Razorbacks, Predators, etc) which never got painted, and in some cases, never got built. Problem is, both BA and SW benefit greatly from vehicles, and until the day I have enough money to buy ANOTHER ten or so vehicles, I'll have to select which army to "give them to".

 

Heres my predicament; I love both factions since they are both very in-your-face (codex marines and DA are just too shooty for my tastes), but I've never liked the fluff for the BA; I'm not a fan of anything related to vampires, and I don't support wearing golden armor with nipples crafted onto them (hence the DIY; more for the fact I don't like vampires, the nipple thing is just a joke).

 

Now, back in the past (most of my experience is 3rd/4th ed) the situation wasn't so bad, as both armies were different sides of the same coin; the SW were more laid back in the sense that you didn't have to worry about getting the charge off with Grey Hunters due to their rules, and getting a charge off with Blood Claws in sufficient numbers wasn't particularly hard if you used your Grey Hunters as anchors, or if you just slammed them with a Rhino Rush. The BA on the other hand, to get Furious Charge you had to pretty much plan your charges. And when the BA charged, they hit really hard. However, with the new SW and BA codex, I'm finding it VERY difficult to justify why I should even bother playing BA over SW, other than the fact everyone else here also plays SW making me "just another SW player".

 

I'm not saying the the BA are underpowered, but I'm a big fan of simple cost-efficient units and flexibility; I outgrew the "oohh shiny toys" syndrome many years ago, which the BA codex seems to suffer from. Yes, toys are nice, but I happen to like more bodies even when I'm playing Space Marines. And with the 1/6 chance of a squad ever having Furious Charge, the BA aren't really exceptionally killy in melee, and Mephiston's apparent overuse makes me feel like he's more of a crutch than anything else. I've not really been one to cry underpowered or overpowered, but the problem I'm having here is that my favored playstyle (bludgeoning people to death in glorious melee) doesn't seem as viable anymore for BA when I compare them to the SW, who can get the same amount of killing done for less points.

 

So anyway, I thought I'd ask you guys for some advice, before I figure out what to do with my tanks.

 

Thanks!

[JamesI]

well, a lot of it comes down to fluff, but there are playstyle difference of significance.

 

BA are faster. We hit harder on the charge, but Wolves usually have more bodies and staying power. We're meant to be quick with devastating assaults, while the wolves are less mobile and can generally put out better firepower to support their combat skills.

 

I'd highly recommend trying Astorath to get the 50% chance of red thirsting but in the end you need to decide which playstyle fits you more (you also may want to look at Black Templars as well)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

SW are the easy win army now but I think BA will eclipse them.

 

0b :lol:

[bulley]

Sounds to me like you've already convinced yourself what you want to do.

 

Really what I'd do is just do a DIY chapter, sans the BA / SW bits (have a few models maybe that can make them feel a bit more like the respective chapter maybe).

 

If your going for one, there is not one bit there that made it sound like you want to go near BA's at all, you sound like your 100% in the SW camp and want someone to re-assure you that "your not just another SW player". End of the day its your money, your models, you can do what you want with them, dont feel bad for wanting to be SW's.

[Lord_Reven]

Really depends on how you like to play IMO. If you like jump packs, or tank assaults, BA are the way to roll. You also do NOT rely on the red thirst thing for your furious charge tho, a 1 in 6 chanse per unit of getting it is not something you play around. What gives the BA the charge are the sang priests.

 

Now, im not saying that SW dont have tank assaults, but the BA's have fast tanks, wich means they can go 18 per turn (red goes faster), wich is something no other SM army can do.

[Rybnick]

SW are the easy win army now but I think BA will eclipse them.

I see what you did there...

[lunchb0x]

painting wolf pelts since 2nd sucks. Painting wolf pelts sucks.

 

painting red armour since 2nd sucks. Painting red armour sucks.

 

BA do not really suffer from shiny toys syndrome, they suffer more from the same problem Eldar have.

 

Units that must work together to be the most brutal, though with BA if one or two units fails at its intended job its alot more forgiving then an Eldar army.

 

Both SW and BA have a get in your face and chew your nose off style of play, but the SW can hunker down and give you the finger. Where as BA need to get in your face, and proceed to headbutt you a few times and kick you in the junk, and then spit in your eye as they grab their crouch and give you the finger....or they just call Big Brother Mephiston to beat your entire army up.

 

Both play styles are awesome, but BA just give an ass kicking a bit more roughness to it.

 

I have just been inspired...I will now play Cock Sparrer and The Business when playing fools.

 

Epic.

[lunchb0x]

SW are the easy win army now but I think BA will eclipse them.

I see what you did there...

 

 

TEAM MEPHISTON!!!!!! :lol:

 

Soooo dreamy with his chiseled ab armour!!! :D

[Brother-Captain Lucius]

If you always want Furious charge just team your squads up with a Sang Priest which gives them FC and FnP.

[Brother Xeones]

If you like more bodies, simplicity, and you're a fan a beating your enemies down in melee, I'd say SW are probably more your style anyway. You can do melee with either, but BA are more like a rapier to the SW's battle axe. You'll also generally get better melee-centered non-special character HQs in SW as well.

 

Personally, I like the speed and finesse approach of BA, and it's the closest codex GW has put out to represent the fluff and flavor of my DIY chapter, but from what you've said you're going for, I imagine SW are the way to go. I imagine a couple of large blood claw units in LRCs lead by Wolfguard with Gray Hunters and Long Fang support is more what you're looking at.

 

If you want to go with BA, you could do a rhino rush with lots of mech ASM with Baal and Furioso supporting, you could easily get upwards of 50 bodies, but without some of the "blingier" units in the BA codex, you lack some of the pure damage output that you'd get with SWs.

[IcemanAAO]

in my opinion, BA are a one dimensional army, my girlfriend plays them and so do a few of my more experienced friends... and its near as damn it the same thing every game.

oh look... here they come again... load the plasma cannons boys...

 

wolves are the more versatile army, especially with the counter attack rule, hide in cover shooting away then use your grenades to rob them of their charging advantage

 

Ice

[Brother Xeones]

in my opinion, BA are a one dimensional army,

 

I don't totally agree with you. Part of the problem is that the BA codex is still new and it usually takes a good 6 months at least before you start getting people to really explore the possibilities a codex offers. It's true that a lot of people who play BA gear them to just rush forward as fast as possible to throttle their opponents in CC, but that's not all they can do.

[Rogaiir]

There is also the army composition to consider.

You can get more JP units i a BA army since RAS is in the troops choise, and in elites you have SG and in fast you have VV. That gives you a fast moving army that is focused in getting into CC.

 

You could put your troops in a RB or Rhino, but the moment those tanks die, your army loose its speed.

[lunchb0x]

in my opinion, BA are a one dimensional army, my girlfriend plays them and so do a few of my more experienced friends... and its near as damn it the same thing every game.

oh look... here they come again... load the plasma cannons boys...

 

wolves are the more versatile army, especially with the counter attack rule, hide in cover shooting away then use your grenades to rob them of their charging advantage

 

Ice

 

 

Wait ...what?

 

The only time you play people that always take the same list is if its based off an internets list. Not one of their own. There are so many different combinations with BA its retarded.

[Judaz]

I really don't get the whole vampires suck part of your post. I know the BA used to be space vamps, but there's really nothing vampiric about the BA today. I'm a new BA player, in it for the love of Dreadnoughts, and I don't feel we have any vampiric theme at all. Sure we drink blood as a ritual, but that's not a vampiric thing, more like a...well...insane thing to do.

 

Enough of that. Maybe I'm blind to the bad parts of Blood Angels because...what? What did you say? Did you say 11 Dreadnoughts? I'm in!

 

 

I would say, give the vehicles to the puppies, they need 'em more than the BA. An all jump pack army can still be quite effective, of course some vehicles makes it a lot easier, but I think that SW is much harder to play without vehicle support. More golden nipples from the sky!

[Morticon]

in my opinion, BA are a one dimensional army, my girlfriend plays them and so do a few of my more experienced friends... and its near as damn it the same thing every game.

oh look... here they come again... load the plasma cannons boys...

 

Can I ask who wins in these games?

Cause if its always the people loading the plasma cannons then chances are the one dimensionality (and apparent ineffectiveness) stems from the controlling player not the list.

 

The BA list is by far the furthest thing from one dimensional. Sadly, players with limited scope fall into the trap of thinking BA are loyalist zerkers.

Its a simple plan, and not how the new BA should be played to maximise their potential.

 

 

To the OP. Good to see you back matey. Its been a while.

You do seem like you'e made up your mind though. Your play style seems to be indicative of wolves.

However there needs to be a few things said.

 

Firstly, if you've taken a good read through the BA dex you'll find very very little mention of vampirism. The whole vampire aspect has been COMPLETELY down-played. For which I will be (selfishly) ever grateful to Matt Ward.

 

Secondly, the new models are plastic - the nipples come off.

 

Those are two big reasons now gone.

 

 

Now for your other concerns.

 

We can always get FC - but at a price. However, we also now get FNP too!

You can even incresae the chances of getting FC with Astorath as James mentioned, or you can simply go the priest route.

 

BA now have some of the most awesome models with some great modelling and converting ops - as do wolves though.

 

So, a LOT is going to come down to personal play style. What do you prefer. You've said what you like and it seems like the wolves are where its at for you!

 

Personally, I dont think its a bad choice at all. If i was torn between the two then I would be having a very very very tough time. Thankfully the gods of fate started me on the BA side! :(

[The Smiling Bandit]

I really don't get the whole vampires suck part of your post. I know the BA used to be space vamps, but there's really nothing vampiric about the BA today.

 

Uh, what?

 

To clarify: damn near every infantry unit in the BA Codex has Red Thirst, which is the reason I can't get on board with the BAs, much as I love their playstyle.

[Ranwulf]

I play with both, and I must say, I love them both. Seriously.

 

I like Mephiston and Lemartes fluff, their INCREDIBLE power and how cool is having an incredibly fast and hard hitting unit. I love the HAMMER TIME! feeling I have whenever this guys get the Charge. Once, a Reclusiarch, one Power Weapon DC and a normal DC charged a 10 man Tactical squad. They killed EVERYONE.

So Blood Angels is for those guys who like to hit them hard and hit them fast!

 

Space Wolves are for those guys that like doing things in a calm demeanour, not worrying so much about getting charged or not, shooting enemies with their Long Fangs and using some Powerhouses to finish the job. They are incredibly flexible, good at the charge, good being charged, good shooting, damn they are Codex:SM but BETTER! I love their fluff as well. Every guy in this awesome Codex.

 

So it's rather a:

1) I wanna smash ANYONE'S FACE! I want to TEAR THEM APART!

 

or

 

2) I wanna win, now, let's just see how to do that...

 

It's more up to you friend.

 

Ran

[Marshal Wilhelm]

SW are the easy win army now but I think BA will eclipse them.

 

0b ;)

 

I agree.

 

SW came out October 09

BA came out April 10?

 

That's 10 months for SW and 4 for BA.

 

SW have had 250% of exposure time that BA have.

 

No wonder SW seem all amazing compared to BA.

 

SW are an easy army to play. The easiest Marine Army, imo. They are pretty good at everything. If the opponent is better at you is shooting, you rush him and duff him over. And so on. Whilst that seems super obvious, it is built into the whole SW list.

UM can't bash people with Tacticals.

BT can't shoot people to pieces with Crusaders.

 

Once people get a handle on BA, I think BA will start taking heads at tournaments fairly often.

 

They are like Bretonnians and have to get the charge off.

I think of them as being Marine Eldar Equivalents

[Judaz]

Red thirst? Don't think I ever heard of vampires going berzerk all the time. For me, red thirst is more of a werewolfic theme than vampiric.

Nah, no coffin, no drinking blood to survive, no fangs, not even pale skin.

 

A Blood Angel is still a semi-controlled raging maniac in my eyes. With Dreadnoughts.

[shan vener]

I really don't get the whole vampires suck part of your post. I know the BA used to be space vamps, but there's really nothing vampiric about the BA today.

 

Uh, what?

 

To clarify: damn near every infantry unit in the BA Codex has Red Thirst, which is the reason I can't get on board with the BAs, much as I love their playstyle.

 

why does everybody hate the 1/6 chance to get furious charge and fearless!!! :angry: c'mon people

but seriously i think the puppies (sorry SW players) need the protection. do you know how many tanks my BA have. 1. a LRR for my DC . and it was never used, and i win games real often now what does that say about the true angels of death.

[lunchb0x]

A Blood Angel is still a semi-controlled raging maniac in my eyes. With IN Dreadnoughts.

 

Fixed for yah. :P :angry:

[Joasht]

Thanks for the replies guys, appreciate it!

 

Well I guess I could do jump packs with the Blood Angels and give the transports to the Space Wolves, probably means I can also take better advantage of having more Sanguinary Priests giving more FNP bubbles. I'm just wondering how effective jump pack squads are though, just in case I do play in a tournament (not much of a fan of those due to GW's lack of balance) as I noticed that the math seems to favor small squads of Assault Marines in Razorbacks to optimize the discount.

 

Also, side question; how many Sanguinary Priests do people usually use? They seem awfully expensive for something awfully squishy. Maybe I should take Honor Guard instead, for the hidden priest.....

[shan vener]

i love using sanguinary priests, but normally only 1 squad of 3 containing,

corbulo (give me one reason why not)

jump pack, power fist, infernus pistol

jump pack, power weapon, hand flamer

 

expensive, yes. awesome, :lol: yeah

 

PS (you can opt for no jump packs if that's your play style. me i go for 90 - 100% jump pack but to each his own)

[Grey Mage]

Give the Drop Pods to the SWs- who will use them much better.

Give the Mech to the BA- who will get better use out of them.

 

Thats what Id do, since your apparently good on infantry.