Blood Angels List Building Query

[goldenwonder]

Greetings all;

 

I'm almost at the point where I'm going to put my Black Legion on hold having painted enough models to make a couple of lists. I bought in and planned to replace my 2 CSM squads from my forces first incarnation but to be honest, beyond the fun of painting the new Daemon Prince, Possessed and Lesser Daemons my interest in the (dark) powers that be has faded (that and the Heresy series has actually made me dislike the Black Legion completely ;) :P .

 

Onto the main topic, I planned on starting a Blood Angels army under the previous 'Dwarf 'dex and acquired the models. Then the new Codex arrived and my plans shifted. Now I am struggling to make a list I am 100% satisfied with below 3000+pts. The problem would be choice.

 

My list is going to be themed predominantly around the 3rd Company, before the 3rd Armageddon war and Tycho has always been my primary HQ choice - nice model, great fluff and now very useful in-game.

 

I realise I am trying to fit too much in, the shiny new models got to me :lol:. The size I'm aiming for is 1800pts as that is what tends to played locally and ideally a take-all-comers list. I was hoping some you experienced battle brothers could help me and answer a few questions/offer some suffestions:

1) I plan on fielding a unit of 3 Attack Bikes with MM's. Is this an effective unit for the BA's or would I be better looking elsewhere for mobile tank hunting units such as Assault Squads with meltaguns?

 

2) Are Handflamers/melta's effective in Assault Marine units? I really like the idea of retaining the extra attack and makig the most of the BA exclusives but in doing so, would I be putting myself at a disadvantage?

 

3)Would Tycho be better with an Honour Guard or Sternguard squad? Presently I'm thinking drop-pod for transport as my BL are Rhino based and I don't want to create an imperial counterpart on them.

 

4) At an 1800 pts level, which would be a better choice 2 Baals or 1 Baal 1 Vindicator? Or would I better with just 1 of either? One thing which has struck me when drafting is how small a BA force can be.

 

5) I'm planning presently on using Death Co. armed with bolters and a TH or 2 in a drop pod. This is expensive but looks reasonable on paper. Is this a disaster in the making?

 

6) Tactical Squads I like them but I'm struggling to find a use for them. I'd like to run at least one 10-man in a drob pod for objective holding with a Flamer/Plasma Cannon. Would these be better in a Rhino/Razorback or a Drop Pod?

 

7)Finally, I notice the Land Speeder has been repackaged with plastic Typhoon/Tornado add-ons. Is it the same core model or has it been changed so that it actually goes together properly?

 

I'm not looking to buy any more models at present, but I presently own (purchases and gifts/from vouchers over the last 2 years) virtually all in box (or have stripped down from my first BA incarnation):

HQ) Dante, Tycho, Mephiston, Reclusiarch

Eleites) 1 Furioso, 2 Sanguinary Guards (if I don't use second box for conversions), Corbulo, 2 Chaplains

Troops) 30 Tactical Marines, 20 Assault Marines, 20 Death Company (10 Metal for Jump Packs, 10 Plastic on foot, 10 Scouts

FA) 2 Baal Predators, 3 Attack Bikes

HS) 1 Vindi (in box, originally for my BL), 2 Dreadnoughts

Transports) 2 Rhinos (1 old-school) (again unused from my BL), 1 Razorback, 3 Drop Pods

 

If I dip into my Deathwing which was put on hiatus in favour of a fantasy force alongside my BA's I can also add 2 Terminator units (1 Tac & 1 Assault) and 2 Land Raiders (1 Standard 1 Crusader).

 

It's not that I can't make a list per se, but at present I can't seem to strike a balance as I often like to field balanced force. I think I may have to change my mindset and go for all-out offense. I'll carry on drafting lists, decluttering them as best I can and post it when possible. I may have to consider proxying using my CSM's to represent BA's (quite why this didn't come to me before typing this I don't know ^_^ ) to give me some basic, practical experience to draw upon (I'm not really a fan of proxying like this i.e. using one force to represent another but a couple of games won't hurt I suppose).

 

In the meantime any feedback would be appreciated.

 

Cheers

Goldenwonder

[jeremy1391]

Lots of assault marines with jump packs this should be the back boneof your army....

[bloodancient]

Well lets see.....

You can use attack bikes with MM but LS are my choice they just seem alittle more BA mastery of the sky and all. you can take assault squads with meltas 2 but have a back up plan.

I think handflamers/meltas are the better choice for that reason i'd rather have the extra attack

If your fielding Tycho you should go with the HG but probably field him with sterngaurd. if your into that kind of thing.

Well the Baal is a FA and the Vindy is HS so your kinda apple and oranging this if you have the points use both but you might want to take 2 Vindies instead for the support fast attack is kind of second nature for the chapter.

Can't really comment on the DC try not to use them I like to be in control alittle more than that.

Use the Rhino for the Tac and yes they still work you need a good fire base to work BA assault to soften up the enemy lines first.

LS go together real well now I remember back in 3rd the LS was more of a hodge podge not any more.

A couple of other things Sang priests are awesome every one will tell you that. give any unit in 12" FC and FNP. I like shooty Terms better to support the fire base and I use a lot of assualt forces and don't want to completely rely on the charge.

There are just so many ways to go about BA start small real small and find what you like and go after it. oh and remember we get to use Land Raiders as dedicated transports not heavy support.

[Brother-Captain Lucius]

san priests range is only 6" ancient

[evileyevirtue]

1) I plan on fielding a unit of 3 Attack Bikes with MM's. Is this an effective unit for the BA's or would I be better looking elsewhere for mobile tank hunting units such as Assault Squads with meltaguns?

 

AB's a great, cost effective unit for tank hunting. LS's, similarly equipped are also pretty good. If you're looking for a single FOC selection, AB's are the way to go. Otherwise, LS are best as a single unit. They each have their perks, and more often than not it's up to the player's personal preference.

 

2) Are Handflamers/melta's effective in Assault Marine units? I really like the idea of retaining the extra attack and makig the most of the BA exclusives but in doing so, would I be putting myself at a disadvantage?

 

Well, they are a bit expensive in my opinion for what they do. I personally don't like the extra short range of the melta pistol nor the lowered strength of the hand flamer. I think a better option would be to go with the bigger standard weapons. Sure, you lose 1 A per weapon... but I feel the benefits outweigh losing an attack.

 

3)Would Tycho be better with an Honour Guard or Sternguard squad? Presently I'm thinking drop-pod for transport as my BL are Rhino based and I don't want to create an imperial counterpart on them.

 

I'm assuming you're taking pre-nutjob Tycho here. I personally don't think he comes close to being a serious choice for an HQ myself, but if you're going to take him, you're best bet is to include a squad that he can benefit well. He isn't tailored to be shooty or assaulty, so a sternguard unit isn't a terrible idea. The honor guard is more tailored to CC, and I don't think he's that powerful a character to put in the thick of combat.

 

4) At an 1800 pts level, which would be a better choice 2 Baals or 1 Baal 1 Vindicator? Or would I better with just 1 of either? One thing which has struck me when drafting is how small a BA force can be.

 

I always like to run things in pairs. If one breaks, you've got a backup. If both break, than you've probably just soaked up a whole lotta firepower from other targets. I would pick which one you like the best and go with a pair of those. Maybe playtest a bit and find out what works well. I, personally like the Baal myself, and if you wanted a really BA themed army, that's my choice.

 

5) I'm planning presently on using Death Co. armed with bolters and a TH or 2 in a drop pod. This is expensive but looks reasonable on paper. Is this a disaster in the making?

 

A DP can go hit or miss with DC inside. It's a bit better than a rhino, as you get there faster, but it also leaves you out in the open for a turn. Then again, if a rhino gets popped, you can get stuck out for more. Another option to consider, with Decent of Angels, is giving them JP's and DSing them. They get a better chance to DS closer and they can chase down a unit if they try and run. I like my BA with a TH, a few PW and bolters with JP's. Of course if you have 4 other rhinos on the table, the odds of a rhino DC rise.

 

6) Tactical Squads I like them but I'm struggling to find a use for them. I'd like to run at least one 10-man in a drob pod for objective holding with a Flamer/Plasma Cannon. Would these be better in a Rhino/Razorback or a Drop Pod?

 

Well, that completely depends on the rest of you list, really. If you have 3 other rhinos running full bore at the enemy, they're pretty sure to ignore the one hanging back. Overall army composition plays a key part here. Also, if you take a DP, one they hit dirt, that's it. They're there and out in the open to be shot at. if they sit in a rhino, the rhino has to be destroyed first.

 

7)Finally, I notice the Land Speeder has been repackaged with plastic Typhoon/Tornado add-ons. Is it the same core model or has it been changed so that it actually goes together properly?

 

YES, OH GOD YES! The parts are basically the same except the large pieces have been cut down so you don't have to rubber band the whole damn thing together just to glue the top on.

 

Overall, my best suggestion to you is to pick what sort of force you really want to field. If you want a mech list, make that. A hybrid rhino/DP list, then do that. All JP's... go for it. But ultimately it comes down to you and your personal preference. Once you have what type of force you really want, you can go from there. BA's are designed to be an assaulty force with getting into close range being the key... as there are definitely benefits you're wasting if you don't. Now, there are definitely some forces where its better to avoid CC, but for the most part, considering the current game meta, isn't prevelant (of course that depends on your local group too).

 

There are, unfortunately, a lot of people out there who will tell you that one build is better than another for whatever reason, not to mention a lot of cookie cutter lists/selections. This is simply not true and should be avoided at all costs. I've listed my opinions above, and hopefully that will give you some insight into how others play the army and how you can use that to your advantage.

[Jakobus]

Death Company - Include a Chaplain and some Powerweapon / pistol models. I have had the Chappy and 2 DC with powerweapon kill a 10man Assault squad on the charge. The Rage is mildly annoying but its usually, but not always fine. You may need a RAS was Meltaguns to prevent tank kiting. I'm putting an Infernus Pistol on my new Reclisiarch model for things like that.

 

A meltagun is gold for Deepstriking behind a tank / walker and having it pop. It works well with the Decent of angels since you'll rarely scatter out of range. The Handflamers are.. well I haven't had the DC unit with my one Handflamer go against a hoard yet, I have played bugs but the DC caught sight of some Zoanthropes and ran off after them.

 

Tac squads... well I guess they let your assault marines get on with attacking instead of staying still. But I'm thinking that a scout squad may be better, espcially in cover