Glimpse the Void Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 I have started a Wolf Wing this summer and am starting to feel like I could benefit from the tactical flexibility that would come from having one my Termy Squads mounted in a Land Raider. I am thinking it should probally be the crusader, but I have not ruled the reedemer out. The redeemer cost less, and can carry more guys. I am also finding alot of people in cover hiding from my assault which is annoying as WG terminators don't have grenades. I've started making it out of Cardboard, because my gaming budget is pretty shallow. Here is a WIP progress shot. http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa94/PhilCoursey/100_0760.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209241-should-i-go-w-the-land-raider-crusader-or-the-redeemer/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenmichi Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 Cover actually isn't a big issue for Crusaders either thanks to the Assault Launchers giving units charging out of the LRC count as being equipped with frag grenades. But that's only when units are charging from the LRC and not when it's idling or passing by a group in cover. Personally I prefer the LRC because it allows you take a lot more shots on your way to the assault phase. And don't forget that the Hurricane Bolters are still Boltguns and therefore still get the extra shot at half distance (but I'm pretty sure you still have to be stationary, I'm not 100% sure though since this is a vehicle). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209241-should-i-go-w-the-land-raider-crusader-or-the-redeemer/#findComment-2496412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 I personally would go with LRR. Your flamestorm cannons are going to serve double duty for clearing out MEQ and horde opponents denying them both cover and normal saves. Additionally, you are going to have a fair amount of dakka from your relentless storm bolters considering that you can't go completely crazy with a wolfwing gear options or your number of models goes down way quick. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209241-should-i-go-w-the-land-raider-crusader-or-the-redeemer/#findComment-2496427 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMac Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 It all depends what you want to do! If you take the LRC you can move 6" and fire all your weapons including your multimelta (thx to PotMS and the hurricane bolters counting as def. weapons) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209241-should-i-go-w-the-land-raider-crusader-or-the-redeemer/#findComment-2496443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 Crusader. Kirby from 3++ has similar thoughts as me, so here is the link: 3++ Basically, the Godhammer is out as the main strength of Las cannons is long range pew pew. To drive forwards to make use of this expensive taxi undoes its shooty strength. It is an unfocused vehicle. The Redeemer has those ferocious Flamestorms. If the Redeemer is taken out via immobilised, those 8" templates are as good as useless ~ like a T-rex's arms. The Crusader has the Hurricanes. 24" range means it can contribute from mid-range. You can camp on an objective and still be doing something. Whilst both can have a MM and the tl AC to shoot at tanks, adding the Hurricanes to the tl AC means you can also mow down men up to 24" away. 6 tl Bolter shots and 4 tl AC shots is better than just the AC shots. 12 tl bolter shots will do fairly well against Guard, Orks and other Light Infantry. Having two short ranged weapons either side of a wide vehicle, and quite far back at that, is also a bit frustrating. If you intend to use the LR to assault something 22" away, you wont be able to flame the target. The target is just too far away to get the template onto. If you have something that is closer, your men will be in the way of a forwards flame. That means you have to broadside flame things, and so will only get one template on them. Half your super shooting is gone. The Redeemer, now free of passengers and the obstruction they offer, is now able to double flame things. The Redeemer only starts using its sponson weapons after it has made the delivery. If the Crusader goes 6" it can fire Bolters as defensive weapons, tl AC as the one shot and MM as the MachineSpirit shot. The Redeemer can only fire the tl AC and MM.... Whilst the Flamestorms look good on paper, and are lethal so let's not deny it, they get less shots per game than the Bolters. I think the Bolters will be killing as much or more as a result of being able to keep that hail up due to more opportunities. Both are dynamic weapons, the Flamestorm also happens to be a spectacular weapon. Don't be taken in by the razzle-dazzle [or should that be fizzle-crackle? :) ] that is inherent in the Flamestorm. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209241-should-i-go-w-the-land-raider-crusader-or-the-redeemer/#findComment-2496505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenric Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 I like them both but found that I always get more done with my Redeemer. I move it 12" and shoot one weapon first turn and then next turn I can move another 12" burn almost a whole unit to crisps and even Powerarmor won't help versus that. But yeh depends if you kow what you are fighting but in a random list i like having the flamers for taking out 3+ armor saves and still have a Twinlinked sassault cannon for mid to low toughness creatures. Then you can add multi melta for popping tanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209241-should-i-go-w-the-land-raider-crusader-or-the-redeemer/#findComment-2496536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLord Digby Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 The redeemer cost less, and can carry more guys. Actually the Redeemer carries 12 men, Crusader carries 16. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209241-should-i-go-w-the-land-raider-crusader-or-the-redeemer/#findComment-2496579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glimpse the Void Posted August 25, 2010 Author Share Posted August 25, 2010 Does the multi melta option come in addition to the guns you have, or does it replace one? I am really starting to see both sides of the argument on the redeemer vs crusader. The crusader will transport 2 more Terminators and have a wider threat radius. But the redeemer seems like it would melt faces off! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209241-should-i-go-w-the-land-raider-crusader-or-the-redeemer/#findComment-2496716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenric Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 Does the multi melta option come in addition to the guns you have, or does it replace one? I am really starting to see both sides of the argument on the redeemer vs crusader. The crusader will transport 2 more Terminators and have a wider threat radius. But the redeemer seems like it would melt faces off! It doesn't replace, you can add it for 10 points. I just feel you want to move forwards anyways so it won't take long until your melting away enemies with your flamers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209241-should-i-go-w-the-land-raider-crusader-or-the-redeemer/#findComment-2496727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glimpse the Void Posted August 28, 2010 Author Share Posted August 28, 2010 Update! I didn't get as far as I'd have like this week, but I am having a hard time with the weapons. I have bought a pair of flame storm cannons, but think I can manage to do the housing myself. http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa94/PhilCoursey/Doom%20Wolves/100_2653.jpg http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa94/PhilCoursey/Doom%20Wolves/100_2652.jpg http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa94/PhilCoursey/Doom%20Wolves/100_2654.jpg I really like the Ass Cannons. They feel really Wolfy to me. The housing is a bit sloppy, but I feel like it's passable. http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa94/PhilCoursey/Doom%20Wolves/100_2655.jpg I am trying to Rig up a melta gun, but I don't know if I'll be able to manage it. Let me know what you guys think. I really don't want to buy one... Thanks for looking, and let me know what you think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209241-should-i-go-w-the-land-raider-crusader-or-the-redeemer/#findComment-2498712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greendestiny Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 Wow cool Home built LR! Excited to see it as you progress Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209241-should-i-go-w-the-land-raider-crusader-or-the-redeemer/#findComment-2498722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khavos Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 Looks a lot better than anything I could do. Mine would be a shoebox with Post-It notes saying, "Assault Cannons here. Doors here." Etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209241-should-i-go-w-the-land-raider-crusader-or-the-redeemer/#findComment-2498726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReverend Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 That is a sweet cardboard land raider mate. you should definitely leave it pink :tu: as for which to take, I have always favoured the crusader with 15 bloodclaws inside. after they jump out and shoot everything there isn't much left to assault most of the time. I discovered this tactic back when the crusader first came out (many moons ago, but it feels like yesterday...) and my mates hated/feared playing against me ever after that game. recently i brought a redeemer for another of my armies and in all honesty it hasn't performed nearly as well, so that's gone on ebay and i'll be buying a third crusader for my wolves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209241-should-i-go-w-the-land-raider-crusader-or-the-redeemer/#findComment-2499127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glimpse the Void Posted September 11, 2010 Author Share Posted September 11, 2010 I just thought I'd add some more pictures for anybody interested. http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa94/PhilCoursey/Doom%20Wolves/100_2697.jpg http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa94/PhilCoursey/Doom%20Wolves/100_2695.jpg I still need to make the multi melta, and model a psychotic gunner. My son is excited to show you guys that the flamestorme cannons have arrived. http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa94/PhilCoursey/Doom%20Wolves/Xsflamestorm.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209241-should-i-go-w-the-land-raider-crusader-or-the-redeemer/#findComment-2509298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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