So what's the deal with successors?

[Khavos]

Apologies if this has been asked to death and you guys are sick of hearing it, but...really, what's the deal with Space Wolves successor chapters? I like the codex, I like the theme. Just don't like the color scheme or playing already-established chapters. Also don't want to be That Guy, so if SW DIY successors are generally eye-rolled at, let me know, 'cause my fragile ego couldn't take it.

[Valerian]

Apologies if this has been asked to death and you guys are sick of hearing it, but...really, what's the deal with Space Wolves successor chapters? I like the codex, I like the theme. Just don't like the color scheme or playing already-established chapters. Also don't want to be That Guy, so if SW DIY successors are generally eye-rolled at, let me know, 'cause my fragile ego couldn't take it.

 

The Space Wolves only ever had one successor Chapter, the Wolf Brothers. Some believe that they were disbanded, whereas I believe that they were around for about 7,000 years, then were lost in M37 in the Eldar Webway, chasing down a fleeing Eldar war host. Either way they are long gone, so we have no successors surviving. We do, however have Lost Companies, which are basically Space Wolves Great Companies who left the Fang, and were either unwilling or unable to return. You can make your guys one of these Lost Companies and then paint them however you like. The new scheme could either be campaign/mission specific, or could be as a rejection to the Wolves, if your Wolf Lord had a falling out with Logan Grimnar, etc.

 

Valerian

[Grimtooth]

Apologies if this has been asked to death and you guys are sick of hearing it, but...really, what's the deal with Space Wolves successor chapters? I like the codex, I like the theme. Just don't like the color scheme or playing already-established chapters. Also don't want to be That Guy, so if SW DIY successors are generally eye-rolled at, let me know, 'cause my fragile ego couldn't take it.

 

The method of playing a DIY SW army is to use the fluff established in the codex of either a Lost Company or a 13th Co warband.

 

This allows you to go completely on your own as far as color scheme and army comp (within the limits of the codex of course). This is essentially our game mechanic to create unique SW armies as the SM codex has the succesor chapter game mechanic.

[Crimson Devil]

There are a fair number of non-grey space wolves out there. I've seen plenty of red ones, some blue ones, etc., as well as several Chaos armies using our codex and a couple of Lion themed chapters as well. GW ignores their own fluff so often I don't think it matters much either way.

 

I play a Space Wolf successor chapter; The Howling Coyotes! One day I'll actually write the back story floating around in my head. Make the army your own and have fun.

[Grey Mage]

Ive seen alot of good DIY SWs on the internets, usually 'Celtic Marines' of one sort or another, and one really nice one that was Bear themed.

[Khavos]

Apologies if this has been asked to death and you guys are sick of hearing it, but...really, what's the deal with Space Wolves successor chapters? I like the codex, I like the theme. Just don't like the color scheme or playing already-established chapters. Also don't want to be That Guy, so if SW DIY successors are generally eye-rolled at, let me know, 'cause my fragile ego couldn't take it.

 

The method of playing a DIY SW army is to use the fluff established in the codex of either a Lost Company or a 13th Co warband.

 

This allows you to go completely on your own as far as color scheme and army comp (within the limits of the codex of course). This is essentially our game mechanic to create unique SW armies as the SM codex has the succesor chapter game mechanic.

 

Could you fill me in a little on these Lost Companies? I don't have the codex, but from what I've gleaned, everybody and their mother has Counter Attack, and you can kit out the standard vanilla codex CC Captain with a RB/TH/SS/AA...but also throw Eternal Warrior on him. That right there has my Herohammer heart beating awfully fast.

 

My DIY fluff was going to have my homebrew borderline renegade, not in that they're falling to Chaos, but more in that they're maybe not as positive about the Imperium as you'd expect. Possibly Relictor sorts. Maybe they got mind-****ed by Alpha Legion elements during some prolonged campaign. Who knows. Where do these Lost Companies recruit from? What do they do, just cruise around on their own looking for fights?

[Khavos]

Ive seen alot of good DIY SWs on the internets, usually 'Celtic Marines' of one sort or another, and one really nice one that was Bear themed.

 

Ah, so DIYs aren't frowned upon?

[Crimson Devil]

Well, some frown, some don't. The question is who has the power to decide for you?

 

Have you seen Mastiff's Ravenborn? He uses the SW codex.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-1..._Ravenborn.html

[Khavos]

Well, some frown, some don't. The question is who has the power to decide for you?

 

Have you seen Mastiff's Ravenborn? He uses the SW codex.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-1..._Ravenborn.html

 

Pretty sweet. Ravenborn makes them sound like an RG successor.

 

Anyway, yeah. I have no personal problems with a DIY SW successor/whatever, I'd just hate to go to a tournament and have someone go, "Dude, those aren't Space Wolves. No SW codex for you." Not that I'll ever actually go to a tournament, of course, because I'm far more of a theoretical player than an actual one, but it's nice to keep the options open.

[Grey Mage]

Ive seen alot of good DIY SWs on the internets, usually 'Celtic Marines' of one sort or another, and one really nice one that was Bear themed.

 

Ah, so DIYs aren't frowned upon?

Who cares as long as you have a nicely written fluff put out, and arent throwing down blue marines with omegas on them saying "these are the grecko-wolves, my SW DIY chapter".

[Khavos]

Ive seen alot of good DIY SWs on the internets, usually 'Celtic Marines' of one sort or another, and one really nice one that was Bear themed.

 

Ah, so DIYs aren't frowned upon?

Who cares as long as you have a nicely written fluff put out, and arent throwing down blue marines with omegas on them saying "these are the grecko-wolves, my SW DIY chapter".

 

Of course not. Grecko Wolves would be stupid.

 

Ultrawolves sounds much better. Everyone wishes they were Ultramarines, remember? It's canon.

[Chaplain ChonkE]

By Marneus Howlgar's great blue claw that made me laugh :)

[Crimson Devil]

Well, some frown, some don't. The question is who has the power to decide for you?

 

Have you seen Mastiff's Ravenborn? He uses the SW codex.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-1..._Ravenborn.html

 

Pretty sweet. Ravenborn makes them sound like an RG successor.

 

Anyway, yeah. I have no personal problems with a DIY SW successor/whatever, I'd just hate to go to a tournament and have someone go, "Dude, those aren't Space Wolves. No SW codex for you." Not that I'll ever actually go to a tournament, of course, because I'm far more of a theoretical player than an actual one, but it's nice to keep the options open.

 

It seems to me you are only looking for negative answers to your questions. If one person's negative reaction can stop you from playing Space Wolves, then you might not be a Space Wolf.

 

If someone should say "Dude, those aren't Space Wolves. No SW codex for you.", hit him with your ale tankard and kick him in the jimmie. :)

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

Everyone wishes they were Ultramarines, remember? It's canon.

 

*twitch* *strangled cry* *twitch*

 

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

[WolfLord Digby]

Ultrawolves sounds much better. Everyone wishes they were Ultramarines, remember? It's canon.

 

 

NEVER!!! :devil: :wacko:

[Vash113]

Ah, so DIYs aren't frowned upon?

 

Some do, some don't. I personally dislike the idea and have never seen a SW Successor DIY that claims to be an actual Space Wolf successor that I liked. Its one of those DIY Taboos that's not totally impossible but very difficult to pull off. Where as Lost Companies and DIYs that simply use the Codex but are of another gene-stock are far easier to pull off with far less fluff contention.

 

Anyway, that said a Lost Company could fulfill the mind set your looking for rather easily, as most will have already defied the orders of the Great Wolf by their very existence. Unfortunately the downside to a Lost Company is that they aren't very permanent, since the fluff doesn't progress past 999.M41 this is also not really a problem but technically a Lost Company cannot last for a significant amount of time as they can't recruit from anywhere and thus won't be able to replace their losses.

 

The reason Space Wolf successors are frowned upon is Space Wolves can only come from Fenris, the ill-fated Wolf Brothers went nuts and fell apart when recruiting from a world other than Fenris. Lost Companies aren't going to be any more successful in such endeavors.

 

Of course, as I mentioned, you can circumvent the problem entirely by just using another Chapters gene-seed and simply use the Space Wolf Codex. The White Scars have a lot of similarities in traits and ideology to the Space Wolves but don't have the same restrictions on recruiting.

[Allerka]

Ive seen alot of good DIY SWs on the internets, usually 'Celtic Marines' of one sort or another, and one really nice one that was Bear themed.

Mine are reptile/dragon themed (I use Cold Ones as equivalent of Thunderwolf mounts, and various kinds of lizard models for the other wolfy-type stuff), so that's something too.

 

 

Could you fill me in a little on these Lost Companies? I don't have the codex, but from what I've gleaned, everybody and their mother has Counter Attack, and you can kit out the standard vanilla codex CC Captain with a RB/TH/SS/AA...but also throw Eternal Warrior on him. That right there has my Herohammer heart beating awfully fast.

Yep, SWs are definitely the way to go if you wanna Herohammer some Marine HQs. A fully twinked-out Wolf Lord can go toe-to-toe with pretty much any other HQ choice in the book and have a solid shot of winning.

 

 

Anyway, yeah. I have no personal problems with a DIY SW successor/whatever, I'd just hate to go to a tournament and have someone go, "Dude, those aren't Space Wolves. No SW codex for you." Not that I'll ever actually go to a tournament, of course, because I'm far more of a theoretical player than an actual one, but it's nice to keep the options open.

I wouldn't worry about that at all. I just took my army of space lizards to a tournament and got nothing but compliments for it. I was also watching the final game of the tournament between the top two players, and it was a guy with Crimson Fists using Blood Angels rules against a kid with Red Corsairs using Space Wolves rules. Yes, I'll let that sink in for a moment. :)

 

So don't worry about using non-wolfy Space Wolves and someone throwing a hissy fit at a tournament. You're far more likely to get people going, "Cool idea!"

[Legatus]

Ultrawolves sounds much better. Everyone wishes they were Ultramarines, remember? It's canon.

Technically, I don't think statements made by GW employees in an interview are considered "canon". :)

[Jonny]

I personally prefer to stick closely to the actual fluff (although I killed off Dragongaze to make my own great company), however I am also more in the mindset of "it's you money and your models so you can paint them pink and make them ride unicorns for all I care".

 

To me playing the table game and the fluff are separate, for the table game i need "what you see is what you get" (so packs and weapons must be identifiable) and I need to know what codex you're using.

 

When it comes to fluff, it is up to you how much you take. I like to stick closely and others will deviate (to larger or smaller extents), if you are debating fluff be prepared for people to put a successor chapter down but if you're happy that the fluff fits enough then that's what counts in my opinion.

 

I can't see a tournament turning you down just because you don't fit with the fluff so long as you ad hear to the table game rules (if they do then they need to take a break from the game as they're taking the fluff way too seriously). The fluff is great but it is an add on that enriches the universe and the game, not the defining feature. The defining feature is gamers building and painting models that they love and playing a fun game against others who have done the same.

 

Regards

Jonny

[Khavos]

Ah, so DIYs aren't frowned upon?

 

Some do, some don't. I personally dislike the idea and have never seen a SW Successor DIY that claims to be an actual Space Wolf successor that I liked. Its one of those DIY Taboos that's not totally impossible but very difficult to pull off. Where as Lost Companies and DIYs that simply use the Codex but are of another gene-stock are far easier to pull off with far less fluff contention.

 

Anyway, that said a Lost Company could fulfill the mind set your looking for rather easily, as most will have already defied the orders of the Great Wolf by their very existence. Unfortunately the downside to a Lost Company is that they aren't very permanent, since the fluff doesn't progress past 999.M41 this is also not really a problem but technically a Lost Company cannot last for a significant amount of time as they can't recruit from anywhere and thus won't be able to replace their losses.

 

The reason Space Wolf successors are frowned upon is Space Wolves can only come from Fenris, the ill-fated Wolf Brothers went nuts and fell apart when recruiting from a world other than Fenris. Lost Companies aren't going to be any more successful in such endeavors.

 

Of course, as I mentioned, you can circumvent the problem entirely by just using another Chapters gene-seed and simply use the Space Wolf Codex. The White Scars have a lot of similarities in traits and ideology to the Space Wolves but don't have the same restrictions on recruiting.

 

Ah ha, so that's why there aren't any successors. Fenris. That makes sense. And a Lost Company sounds like it would work - though I'm still not entirely clear on what those are; aren't all of the company leaders accounted for in the Codex?

 

The Lost Company angle sounds good. I'll stay away from direct successor if I go the DIY route. If I went with a DIY, though, I think it'd be hard to justify using the Space Wolves' organization and tactics, as given how non-Codex a chapter they are, it seems like their guys would be an extremely unlikely choice to use as a training cadre for a recent founding.

[Khavos]

I personally prefer to stick closely to the actual fluff (although I killed off Dragongaze to make my own great company), however I am also more in the mindset of "it's you money and your models so you can paint them pink and make them ride unicorns for all I care".

 

To me playing the table game and the fluff are separate, for the table game i need "what you see is what you get" (so packs and weapons must be identifiable) and I need to know what codex you're using.

 

When it comes to fluff, it is up to you how much you take. I like to stick closely and others will deviate (to larger or smaller extents), if you are debating fluff be prepared for people to put a successor chapter down but if you're happy that the fluff fits enough then that's what counts in my opinion.

 

I can't see a tournament turning you down just because you don't fit with the fluff so long as you ad hear to the table game rules (if they do then they need to take a break from the game as they're taking the fluff way too seriously). The fluff is great but it is an add on that enriches the universe and the game, not the defining feature. The defining feature is gamers building and painting models that they love and playing a fun game against others who have done the same.

 

Regards

Jonny

 

I appreciate the perspective. My trouble is I'm big on fluff, REALLY big on the Codex, which I just picked up, adverse to the color scheme, and unreasonably adverse to playing already-established chapters. It's tough to satisfy. :D

[Jonny]

Ah ha, so that's why there aren't any successors. Fenris. That makes sense. And a Lost Company sounds like it would work - though I'm still not entirely clear on what those are; aren't all of the company leaders accounted for in the Codex?

 

The Lost Company angle sounds good. I'll stay away from direct successor if I go the DIY route. If I went with a DIY, though, I think it'd be hard to justify using the Space Wolves' organization and tactics, as given how non-Codex a chapter they are, it seems like their guys would be an extremely unlikely choice to use as a training cadre for a recent founding.

 

Well I desagree with Vash113 on the Wolfbrothers, there is no evendence that they suffered mutation in my view (the codex says "in later times" when refering to mutation and there is the white dwarf issue that actually says what happened to them (Valerian put it here *click*, scroll down to Wolfbrothers)).

 

I see no reason that you can't find a way around the fluff to make a successor chapter that recruits from another planet (the fluff definitely doesn't say people other that Fenrisians can't handle it, only that "perhaps the high Lords recognised the problems that would plague the legacy of Leman Russ". It doesn't say it would be any different to how bad it is on Fenris).

 

So you could even make a lost company that founded it's own chapter quite easily in my opinion.

 

Regards

Jonny

 

[added]

 

I appreciate the perspective. My trouble is I'm big on fluff, REALLY big on the Codex, which I just picked up, adverse to the color scheme, and unreasonably adverse to playing already-established chapters. It's tough to satisfy. :D

 

Well you could go for pre heresy colours (just grey rather than baby blue) and kill of a company leader to make your own (which is what I did), Pre heresy colours can look really good though it does need a few other colours here and there (especially on the vehicles) to make sure it doesn't look to bland in my opinion.

[TrentL]

I can't see why you couldn't create a lost Company (Basically just like a Company in a regular Marine chapter, it is run by a Wolf Lord (Captain)) The Wolf Lord can be tricked out to be awfully impressive and makes my need for Heroic Leaders that aren't Named (My local area seems to frown on using Named CHaracters) heart sing.

 

You could easily say that after the centruries of being lost after a Great Hunt (Something The wolves do once and a while go look for Russ) they found a planet and after being stranded there for many years bonded to the local Animal (Lizards, Wolves, Lioins, Bears... large lion built Squirrles if your use Offical GW stuff :D)

 

In fact I wonder what would happen if a Lost Company came back finally and was 100% loyal to Russ, but got lost in the Warp... arrives at Fenris with 300-400 Wolves / Dreads etc... and asks to be let home....

[Dyre]

I dont see why you cant make a lost company that comes across a planet that has a small continent that reminds them of Fenris and then decide to make a small outpost.

 

You can go the route that maybe the Wolf Lord is unhappy with the Current Great Wolf and say maybe his brother is a wolf priest that he convices to come with him. Or perhaps the Wolf Lord set out on a mission and fail, then instead of returning to the fang He decides to set out to redeem himself.

 

Just throwing out some ideas.

[Sharpsilver]

I don't usually mind Successor Chapters, however in this incident, where the Lore states that there are no active 'Successor' Chapters and there most probably never will be either, means that I do frown.

 

Purely because I'm a fluff person. At the end of the day you can do what you want, but it's going to be perculier in my eyes, but don't take notice of people who nay say like me. It's your hobby, you can do what you like! :P

 

Maybe your successor chapter could be a 'Lost Company' of some sort, perhaps conflicting with the Wolves protocol and maybe being cast out for doing so? For another idea...