CC Ability

[Daeghrefn]

I am building up a CSM Word Bearers army as a painting project, seeing as I find myself with about a year on my hands with which to concentrate on something special. In addition to looking good I would also like the army to be reasonably competitve and fun to play!

 

With that in mind, which do you guys prefer and why - Raptors, Lesser Summoned Daemons, or Possesed CSM? I'm aware that neither of the three is the last word in CC, but my next unit is definitely going to be one of them. Thanks for the input!

[Brother Nihm]

Lesser Daemons vs CSM/Raptors,

Normal 10CSM unit with transport+armor, champ with fist, and 2 meltaguns comes to 260.

Normal 10Raptor unit with 2 melta and champ with fist comes to 260.

Normal 10LDaemons unit comes to 130.

 

The same number of attacks among the normal marines/raptors to daemons, and so I would safely say that daemons are a support/tie up unit to the core attack. Either that, or a cheap counter-charge unit/slowdown unit for a shooty force. I think for the cost of the daemons being half of the others, its a +50% ratio of attacks in general that would support the marines in close combat, no true comparison can be made with the variables standing squarely on what your opponent does and what his luck is in stopping you from getting close. 20 Daemons to a 30 raptor+30marines in transports army would be a prime example of having +60 attacks on the charge instead of just +30 with that 260 point space.

 

Im sorry but I cannot find a full proof way to compare the units, they are too different. The Inv saves stops what power armor cannot stop, and power armor is superior to basic attacks defense, meanwhile people will usually square their attacks off against the marines instead of the daemons in a multiple combat. Especially when there are cult marines involved. (Cult marines are either more durable, or better in hand to hand then a basic marine/raptor so it is for the better either way)

 

Icons will add more attacks, make you faster, or more durable to str attacks or armor ignoring attacks while the final one is for morale. In any case all icons will improve a basic marine unit's prowess, just use the scale I have above using a calculator for the wounds. If its 30 attacks hit on 4+ and wound on 4+, then its 30x0.22=6.6 wounds, and for the armor saves, say if its 3+, divide by 3 and you have your answer at 2.2 kills.

There's the above, but personally I'd just take more CSM instead, they can do whatever the other units can do, only better. Unless you're looking for a tar pit unit, then LD's are the way to go.

 

 

Edit: Possessed are junk, but the models are cool and make for great converting potential.

[Rain]

Although I agree with Nihm that basic CSM's are the best way to go and perhaps the second best troops choice in the game, tied with Berzerkers and after Grey Hunters (god I hate SW's) if you must take one of those three I would go with lesser daemons. Raptors are absolute garbage as a CC unit as without a transport they are quite vulnerable to both small arms and template weapons, at at 20pts per model for just a Chaos marine with BP/CC they don't even do much if they get there intact.

 

Possessed are a coin flip as you can get something great like power weapons or something useless like scouts, which for 26pts a pop makes them kinda unusable. Lessers on the other hand are quite cheap and a gaggle of 15 or so can hold large MC's and whatnot for the majority of a game while also putting out a respectable amount of attacks. This actually makes them useful if your opponent fields something like vanguard vets or wolf guard as you basically don't care about their expensive special CC weapons and your large amount of attacks will drag some of his models down with you.

[minigun762]

I'll partially agree with Brother Nihm, I think Raptors are exactly the same as CSMs who can't score and don't bring a Rhino to the party.

 

Lesser Daemons and Possessed however are both units that are dedicated assault/tarpit squads.

1) They are both Fearless, important when you are a tarpit

2) They are both only useful in assault, again a tarpit bonus

3) They both have Inv saves which help against MEQ-killers like MCs, Dreads and PW users

 

As for which one is better, I agree with Roultox's sentiment that its too hard to say. LSD are scoring and cheaper but lack an armor save and are reliant on the reserve roll while Possessed are more expensive and non-scoring but more durable, stronger and can be very deadly with a semi-decent Daemonkin power.

 

In the end, both will fill the same basic function on the battlefield by supporting your more important CSMs so I'd pick whichever one you like the looks of better.

[carnosaur93]

let fluff choose.... you say wordbeares... i yell daemons! ;)

[MorpheusM]

I totally agree with Carnosuar93! Word bearers and fluff are a match made in the warp! Plus, it's always good to have a tarpit unit...

[the jeske]

I dont think you can be a good hth unit without frags and you cant be a good tar pit unit when you have +5 save. not when you cost almost as much as a unit of 10 marines.

If it realy has to be one of those 3 then I would take raptors 5 naked with 2 meltas.