Seeking advice: small DW force

[bulley]

Just returned to the game after a decade gap, and since my return terms have become not only viable but good again! My first love was dark Angels terms ( pre deathwing!) infact the first full force, albeit badly, I fielded was deathwing.

 

So obviously seeing that I can field a dw force has gotten me thinking.

 

But I do need a hand. I at first just want to start out at around 1000 points if at all viable, what sort of list could I do for this? Is it viable at this point cap? Or just won't have enough bodies on the table? Also what's the sort of play style for DW? I may well expand, almost certainy will but this gives me a chance to get some conversions and what not going.

[bulley]

Bah. iPhone managed to post this thread 3 times. Apolagies.

[Gillyfish]

Not a problem - extra threads have been deleted. You might also notice some changes in load times because of changes Brother Argos is making to the site.

 

Anyway, 1000 points is feasible, but you may struggle. The essential components of your army will be Belial and two terminator squads, which will set you back roughly 750 points. that doesn't leave you much to play with (depending upon upgrades) and you may struggle to get another squad in there.

 

That leaves you with a number of options. Either go non-Deathwing and bulk out your numbers with tacticals or tanks (I'm assuming you won't be able to to fit a Land Raider in). Ravenwing may also be out due to cost. A dreadnought (ideally venerable) may be a viable option for you and might allow you to add some much needed anti-tank to the force.

 

You will struggle because of the low body count, but it will make the games far more cinematic - after all, you'll havea small elite force fighting off hordes of enemies! I might even try it myself!

[bulley]

It does sound epic lol.

 

Reason for 1000 is just it's a nice easy round number to start and field I'll add to 2000 or at least 1500 after a short while.

 

What sort of squads are best for the first 2 have foot slogging shooters with stuff like AC and CML? could try and pop an assault in with a LC or just deep strike I guess.

 

If I have 250 ish left over may add in dread and maybe a LS or some heavy weaponry of some sort.

[Tanhausen]

Hi there, quick thoughts:

 

- DW struggles at low points because of our inherent lack of mobility. Yes, you can Deep Strike but... once you pop, you are quite slow.

 

- Numbers are important. 1 DS DW squad that lands close to the rear of the opponent (because in an all evil plan, you want to assault them ASAP) will become target #1. And even with a 2+ save, even rapid fire Imperial Guard will hurt you. Just quick numbers, imagine a marine tactical squad shooting at you at 6 inches: 3+ to hit (.66) 4+ to wound (.5) and you fail saves 6+ (.16)... so each marine delivers 0.05 wounds... sucks, right? Well, if you get 20 shots (1x10 man squad in rapid fire), that is 1 wound "for sure".

 

Further, if they are smart and counter charge you with a CC decent unit, you are probably seeing more casualties... and you only have 5 models!

 

Idea: if you Deep Strike, try to concentrate AT LEAST 2 units.

 

If you still want a Deathwing army at 1k, I'd suggest:

 

Belial with claws - 130

2 x Terminators with Sarge, Heavy flamer, Chain Fist, Thunder hammer, Claws - 450

1 x Land Raider Crusader - 250

1 x Vindicator - 130

 

Thats 960 points, so you can choose to go for an apothecary or a banner (I suggest the later, since its very useful to get that +1 attack).

 

This concept is mobile and quite tough to break.

 

An alternative would be:

 

- take out the LRC, get another terminator squad.

- take out the Vindicator, get 2 Land Speeders, either Typhoon+Heavy Bolter (each) or Multimelta/Heavy flamer (each)

 

It does come down to what you expect to find.

 

If its wolves and blood angels, I'd go option 1.

 

If its swarm, I'd go for the extra termis and 2 x LS Typhoon/HB.

 

Hope it helps!

[bulley]

Cheers again.

 

The force will probably only see a few games before it expands anyway so doesn't need to be the most competative but it will let me learn the core well. Used to do that with my wood elves put myself in a corner and find out what's what, then add and subtract on what's good and not good.

 

I'll start out with a couple of squads anyway, and try and convert up a few models, by then I may want to expand to 1500 on wards, starting to get intrigued by these duel wing armies.

[bulley]

Actualy more I read the more inclined I am to make a DA force my main attention. Right now I am sar on about 1000 points of my BA's, but I am doing a jump army and really want to avoid razor spam ( did that in 3rd with SW's and combined with guess range WWs the games was easy after 1 or 2 learning curve battles)

 

Starting to feel a bit like my old wood elves. Weaker army Los available due to lack of codex but there lies the challenge. Who wants to be carried by their codex any way?

[RayJ]

Gillyfish was pretty spot on. My idea would have Belial and 2 squads running at about 650 points. The 350 points remaining would best be spent on a tactical squad (with rhino) and probably a predator, though a dreadnought or vindicator could serve well if you squeeze the points in.

 

Realistically though, if I were making something truly competitive, I'd only take one terminator squad at 1000 points. I'd go all out with them, taking up 435 points with Belial, and then use a battle company to flesh them out. What they would be is a hard-hitting distraction that is reasonably durable. Their job is to take enemy troops off of an objective and claim it for themselves.

 

I think a couple of minimal-sized tactical squads with meltaguns and lascannon razorbacks will provide a good back line, and dreadnoughts, predators, and vindicators can round out the army pretty well. You're still running with relatively few bodies, but those fewer bodies will have better tools for dealing with the enemy.

[IanSturrock]

If you're willing to add in a small number of bikes rather than have pure DW, I think that this would give you a lot more flexibility:

 

Belial (130)

DW squad + Assault Cannon + chainfist (250)

DW squad + Assault Cannon (245)

DW squad + Missile Launcher (235)

Ravenwing squad + 2 melta guns (140)

 

It does mean buying 3 bikes, but it gets you some much-needed mobility & antitank, as well as a lot more deployment options.

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

My favorite 1000pts list goes like this:

 

Belial w/ claws - 130

 

Mortis Dreadnought w/ 2 HB (FW Rules) -125

 

DW Squad I (Command) - 255

Heavy Flamer

Chainfist

Apothecary

1 Hammer/Shield

1 Pair of Claws

 

DW Squad II - 245

1 Pair of Claws

Assault Cannon

 

DW Squad III - 245

1 Pair of Claws

Assault Cannon

 

 

There'll be an obvious struggle against armour armies, but you can switch to dual ML arms on the Mortis, freeing 10 points for additional chainfists.

 

When using this setup, I usually plop down Belial+Squad I and a second squad in a line close to each other, the dread behind them and depending on the enemies setup deepstrike squad III on turn 1 for advancing in a diamond formation or put them in normal reserve for a last minute breather.

[Rain]

Well I don't play DA, but I have extensive experience fighting them as well as all Meq so maybe I can help a bit. From my perspective as a dastardly Chaos player, I would say that Tanhausen's Belial, 2x termies, LRC, vindi list is the most scary. I have fought attempts at termi lists without LR's before and have tabled them every time that I can remember due to the mobility issues. Even if you do DS, you cannot move or assault after you do, and with so few squads even 1 bad scatter taking a squad way off target could prove disastrous. Even if you land all of your squads where you want them, you will face a lot of anti-heavy infantry fire that will probably cost you the game.

 

LRC's on the other hand are quite hard to crack at 1k points, and that PotMS MM can do all kinds of damage to your opponents tanks, cracking them open to assault the juicy infantry inside. Add to that the vindicator which can be quite annoying if ignored, and the list can actually work quite well I imagine, at least against Meq. Admittedly it would be less good against things like Orks or swarm nids, but Meq is at least 70% of most playerbases so it's not a bad thing to meta against.