Leonaides Posted August 26, 2010 Share Posted August 26, 2010 Who says? To paraphrase a certain Mr Clough - "We might not be the best, but we're certainly in the top 1." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209271-blood-angels-red-thirst-and-vampirism/page/2/#findComment-2497836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piousservant Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 I'll be the first to admit Twilight is just plain gay! Blood Angels have always had a vampiric tilt... and it's vampiric purely in the sense of drinking blood, rather than a "Velcome to my castle..." style thing... I always wondered why the Blood Angels were not the best Siege attackers... They can't break the Siege unless they get invited inside... :tu: Exactly... :) It's also why the Blood Angels never go round the Ultramarines for dinner, Calgar uses too much garlic in his cooking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209271-blood-angels-red-thirst-and-vampirism/page/2/#findComment-2498278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemal Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 Guys - I'm close to reporting in a melta strike (alas I lack the authority to do it myself!!). Lets discuss the ideas around vampirism and BA in a SENSIBLE manner. Firstly - the concept of the "sexy vampire" definitely predates the Twilight films by many decades - Anne Rice books, Dracula etc where the Vampire is a seducer as well as a fiend.. and evil because he was forced to be for some reason, in contrast to the Nosferatu image of the ugly vamp... The Twilight saga is nothing to do with this whole thing - the Vampires in twilight are anomalies even in the books/films compared to their own kind.... BA have ALWAYS (at least since Angels of Death!) been Blonde, blue-eyed and angelic looking. And coupled with this have a vampire curse - they have a lot of blood rituals (MOST chapters have a lot of them and have a few more..) possibly an overdeveloped/mutated omophagea implant... Sanguinius is documenetd as having gone all vampiric even before being discovered... Mephiston had the same special rule as Minotaurs used to have for Blood Greed in Fantasy... and his second ed (even his current) stats are to another marine commander as a Vampire Lord is to a hero in fantasy Battle... These are all pretty conlcusive that BA were intended to be vampiric to a degree. The refusal to remove masks/helmets, the disappearances of the odd civilian in BA war zones etc etc Even looking at Cloten in the Bloodquest comics. The newer book may seek to tone it down, but the undercurrents are there for all to see, and the way the GW noble vampire has been done is actually pretty good...These are still hateful and violent creatures, who just happen to like honing skills in the arts and like to look good...(Tycho..) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209271-blood-angels-red-thirst-and-vampirism/page/2/#findComment-2498387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherMoses Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 Can you cite any accounts of Sanguinius "Vamping out"? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209271-blood-angels-red-thirst-and-vampirism/page/2/#findComment-2498397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 If someone wants to write a nice post on Vampirism and the Blood Angels throughout the various editions and fluff changes it could end up in one of the sticky threads. Personally, I like the Vampire aspect of the BA, the loss of control and drinking of opponents blood. ^ This. 0b ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209271-blood-angels-red-thirst-and-vampirism/page/2/#findComment-2498414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemal Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 He fell into a Blood Rage when a band of mutants surprised his tribe. During the blood letting he went quite beserk and into a blood-rage.... He fell into a Blood Rage when a band of mutants surprised his tribe. During the blood letting he went quite beserk and into a blood-rage.... Not quite the classica "vampire" sopping to feed, but such beserk fury had not been seen by his tribe till then... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209271-blood-angels-red-thirst-and-vampirism/page/2/#findComment-2498420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherMoses Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 He fell into a Blood Rage when a band of mutants surprised his tribe. During the blood letting he went quite beserk and into a blood-rage.... He fell into a Blood Rage when a band of mutants surprised his tribe. During the blood letting he went quite beserk and into a blood-rage.... Not quite the classica "vampire" sopping to feed, but such beserk fury had not been seen by his tribe till then... My bad Hemal, I meant in any of the previous codeces. I honestly don't take fluff from the 5th edition codex into account. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209271-blood-angels-red-thirst-and-vampirism/page/2/#findComment-2498720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
undeadfilth Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 LOL! I love the Vampiric undertones that the blood angels have, hell i kit bash my vampire counts bits into my army ALOT. Rhinos with lanterns, librarians with crazy blood crazed vamp heads and scythes. makes my army unique and badass looking. I got into the blood angels because they are Vampires in Space! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209271-blood-angels-red-thirst-and-vampirism/page/2/#findComment-2498869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 Me too ! 0b ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209271-blood-angels-red-thirst-and-vampirism/page/2/#findComment-2498897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodancient Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 See know when i got into BA I didn't even think about them as Vamp's back in 3rd even with all the fluff back then. I saw them more as the imperial counter to berzerkers. not really blood hungry so much as wanting to spill the blood of the enemy at all costs no matter what. The Red thirst wasn't as developed back then more of a concept, but the vampire thing dkdn't stop me from coming back to them in this edition. Just knowing that there was more to them was a great thing it's very primal and at the same time humbling allowing you to bring it to life as what you have to do to keep things undercontrol. (with all do respect)(thats ginny for IMO) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209271-blood-angels-red-thirst-and-vampirism/page/2/#findComment-2498902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealadin Posted August 28, 2010 Author Share Posted August 28, 2010 Guys - I'm close to reporting in a melta strike (alas I lack the authority to do it myself!!). Lets discuss the ideas around vampirism and BA in a SENSIBLE manner. Firstly - the concept of the "sexy vampire" definitely predates the Twilight films by many decades - Anne Rice books, Dracula etc where the Vampire is a seducer as well as a fiend.. and evil because he was forced to be for some reason, in contrast to the Nosferatu image of the ugly vamp... The Twilight saga is nothing to do with this whole thing - the Vampires in twilight are anomalies even in the books/films compared to their own kind.... BA have ALWAYS (at least since Angels of Death!) been Blonde, blue-eyed and angelic looking. And coupled with this have a vampire curse - they have a lot of blood rituals (MOST chapters have a lot of them and have a few more..) possibly an overdeveloped/mutated omophagea implant... Sanguinius is documenetd as having gone all vampiric even before being discovered... Mephiston had the same special rule as Minotaurs used to have for Blood Greed in Fantasy... and his second ed (even his current) stats are to another marine commander as a Vampire Lord is to a hero in fantasy Battle... These are all pretty conlcusive that BA were intended to be vampiric to a degree. The refusal to remove masks/helmets, the disappearances of the odd civilian in BA war zones etc etc Even looking at Cloten in the Bloodquest comics. The newer book may seek to tone it down, but the undercurrents are there for all to see, and the way the GW noble vampire has been done is actually pretty good...These are still hateful and violent creatures, who just happen to like honing skills in the arts and like to look good...(Tycho..) I don't think there is doubt the vampirism theme is there, but its not all defining and your making some leaps of logic, which I think are based on older codexes and releases. There certainly seems to be a softening of fluff and lore with many new releases to make stuff much more child friendly it would seem, which may be why many newer codexes are just.... different? Hard to put a finger on it really. There definately seems to be mention of darker aspects to the blood angels, although with this edition it seems very bezerker-ish rather than vampire related. To be honest when I first read through the whole BA codex (5th ed) I thought they where far more portrayed as being stricken with beserker rage than being vampires, but I have been far less influenced by older releases. The point I was getting at is that the degree to which vampirism comes into it seems to be commonly misunderstood, and seems to be self perpetuating! I don't think any actual BA players or fans have made the Twilight comments, but plenty of those whoes loyalty lies elsewhere certainly have. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209271-blood-angels-red-thirst-and-vampirism/page/2/#findComment-2498905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Devlonir Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 My bad Hemal, I meant in any of the previous codeces. I honestly don't take fluff from the 5th edition codex into account. Ugh.. I hate becoming a troll and repeating myself.. but Moses please, don't go into fluff discussions with your personal opinion that 5E fluff is fully ignored. This is the second thread already in a week time where I've seen you post this. 5E codex is the latest, greatest source of OFFICIAL fluff, if you don't want to play your own army that way: everyone is fine with that. But don't enter fluff discussions about the current official fluff and then choose to ignore new fluff. And when you choose to enter a discussion, make it clear that you mean to talk about only previous codeci. Either that, or make sure you know exactly what fluff you do aknowledge and have enough information of the fluff you ignore to actually make worthwile additions to the discussion so we also see that older fluff was better like you believe. And it is indeed pretty recent fluff including Sanguinius 'vamping out' that shows the Red Thirst and Black Rage really are different things, one being a flaw in the geneseed while the other is a psychic wound created from Sanguinius dying. A fact I personally love about our favorite chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209271-blood-angels-red-thirst-and-vampirism/page/2/#findComment-2498930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 He fell into a Blood Rage when a band of mutants surprised his tribe. During the blood letting he went quite beserk and into a blood-rage.... He fell into a Blood Rage when a band of mutants surprised his tribe. During the blood letting he went quite beserk and into a blood-rage.... Not quite the classica "vampire" sopping to feed, but such beserk fury had not been seen by his tribe till then... My bad Hemal, I meant in any of the previous codeces. I honestly don't take fluff from the 5th edition codex into account. so you pick and choose what fluff GW writes that you want believe? you take what you like and leave what you don't? personally i don't like the new fluff, this is all GW's IP and it's GW's game, so their will shall be done, and this is the fluff they willed to be canon. (only fluff i don't like though is about the new units and mephiston's new even-more-super-super powers.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209271-blood-angels-red-thirst-and-vampirism/page/2/#findComment-2499091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherMoses Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 He fell into a Blood Rage when a band of mutants surprised his tribe. During the blood letting he went quite beserk and into a blood-rage.... He fell into a Blood Rage when a band of mutants surprised his tribe. During the blood letting he went quite beserk and into a blood-rage.... Not quite the classica "vampire" sopping to feed, but such beserk fury had not been seen by his tribe till then... My bad Hemal, I meant in any of the previous codeces. I honestly don't take fluff from the 5th edition codex into account. so you pick and choose what fluff GW writes that you want believe? you take what you like and leave what you don't? In codeces, basically yes. Admittedly, I never started doing that until this edition though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209271-blood-angels-red-thirst-and-vampirism/page/2/#findComment-2499094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabadin Posted August 29, 2010 Share Posted August 29, 2010 He fell into a Blood Rage when a band of mutants surprised his tribe. During the blood letting he went quite beserk and into a blood-rage.... He fell into a Blood Rage when a band of mutants surprised his tribe. During the blood letting he went quite beserk and into a blood-rage.... Not quite the classica "vampire" sopping to feed, but such beserk fury had not been seen by his tribe till then... My bad Hemal, I meant in any of the previous codeces. I honestly don't take fluff from the 5th edition codex into account. I've got some bad news for you then, Codex: Angels of Death, pg 18 <_< Outside sanguinor and the sanguinary guard, most of the 5th ed fluff is verbatim from that book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209271-blood-angels-red-thirst-and-vampirism/page/2/#findComment-2499319 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted August 29, 2010 Share Posted August 29, 2010 He fell into a Blood Rage when a band of mutants surprised his tribe. During the blood letting he went quite beserk and into a blood-rage.... He fell into a Blood Rage when a band of mutants surprised his tribe. During the blood letting he went quite beserk and into a blood-rage.... Not quite the classica "vampire" sopping to feed, but such beserk fury had not been seen by his tribe till then... My bad Hemal, I meant in any of the previous codeces. I honestly don't take fluff from the 5th edition codex into account. so you pick and choose what fluff GW writes that you want believe? you take what you like and leave what you don't? In codeces, basically yes. Admittedly, I never started doing that until this edition though. guess it's a good thing that this isn't the 40k universe for real, or you'd have the =I= all over you for going against the church (GW) and their teachings. (modern canonized fluff) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209271-blood-angels-red-thirst-and-vampirism/page/2/#findComment-2499362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherMoses Posted August 29, 2010 Share Posted August 29, 2010 I thought that sounded familiar, but I don't have a copy of Angels of Death anymore unfortunately. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209271-blood-angels-red-thirst-and-vampirism/page/2/#findComment-2499363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 29, 2010 Share Posted August 29, 2010 Guys, peoples are seeming to get their power armoured panties in large red bunches. Please chillax all. Ive had to delete and edit a lot of nonsense and unproductive posts in this thread. Please keep it on track and productive. There will be no deletion/banning of twilight references- as annoying as they are. We just ask members to be a little more informed of their wrong opinions :P If BA peeps see that others/visitors/newbies are mistaken in their idea, please take the time to correct them in a helpful and friendly way. I think this is a great thread personally. And its inspired me to track down the BA fluff and write an article on vampirism or not. But until we get something like that stickied, please keep your opinions informed and smart thanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209271-blood-angels-red-thirst-and-vampirism/page/2/#findComment-2499479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pandion40 Posted August 29, 2010 Share Posted August 29, 2010 It's interesting BrotherMoses Doesn't use the latest edition background as his earlier post about The Black rage and Red Thirst being confirmed as different things was one of Matt wards aims when he wrote the Codex. Also the conformation that They feel the red Thirst constantly all their lives. Matt in his notes in white dwarf said he felt over the years the two terms had blurred and merged and were almost used interchangeably, He wanted to separate and clarify the two effects. Most of the fluff at the beginning of the codex is taken almost verbatim from Codex Angels of death, with some small changes for increased clarification. As for the Vampirism aspect being toned Down in the latest codex I don't believe it has been. See the clarification we feel the Red thirst "in every Waking Moment". And the Quote below from our latest codex. Pg 13 Few battle Brothers can hold this Red Thirst in Check Unceasingly - it is far from unknown for Blood Angels to temporarily succumb to its lure at the height of Battle I believe this perception is because the 3rd edition booklet Had room for only for the most basic parts of our background and they chose The black rage and red thirst, there wasn't room for the other side of our nature. I think GW were quite clever in our latest codex, there has been a tendency to dial up an armies main features to 11 this edition, Indeed many people feared BA would become Dracula Marines before the codex came out, but instead GW dialled up the Angelic/artistic side of the BAand left the vampiric side as is. This has brought a nice balance to the BA. I do think the Berserker aspect of the BA has however been toned down, They use the blood lust in their soul, but always under the control of an Iron will. Until The Black rage comes along and destroys the BA mind along with any control he had over the Red Thirst. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209271-blood-angels-red-thirst-and-vampirism/page/2/#findComment-2499737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherMoses Posted August 29, 2010 Share Posted August 29, 2010 They definitely played up the Angel theme this codex. And to be fair, when I say the new codex fluff I generally refer to Astorath, Sanguinor, and the completely changed portrayal of Lemartes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/209271-blood-angels-red-thirst-and-vampirism/page/2/#findComment-2499875 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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