Playing against Deamons

[Simo429]

First game against Deamons tomorrow night. Looking for any advice.

 

List im going with that won't be changed.

HQ

Wolf Lord

Thunderwolf Mount

Storm Shield

Thunder Hammer

Fenrisian Wolf x 2

Saga of the Bear

Rune Priest

Living Lightning

Murderous Hurricane

Elites

Wolf Scouts x 5

Melta Gun

Melta Bombs

Plasma Pistol

Troops

Grey Hunters x 10

Meltagun x 2

Wolf Standard

Mark of the Wulfen

Power Weapon

Rhino

Grey Hunters x 10

Meltagun x 2

Wolf Standard

Mark of the Wulfen

Power Weapon

Rhino

Grey Hunters x 10

Plasma Gun x 2

Wolf Standard

Mark of the Wulfen

Power Weapon

Rhino

Fast Attack

Thunderwolf Cavalry x 4

Storm Shield

Wolf Claw

Melta Bombs

Heavy Support

Long Fangs x 6

Lascannon x 2

Missile Launcher x 3

Long Fangs x 6

Heavy Bolter x 3

Plasma Cannon x 2

[Emperor's Instrument]

An idea of what is in the list you're up against would be helpful.

[Simo429]

No idea, 1750

No special characters

[Glimpse the Void]

I played my first game against demons last night. I learned a few things.

 

High strength Dakka is not as important as the number of wounds inflicted. Plasma cannon is likely to be a waste, but misles and heavy bolters should be a nice way to shake hands with your opponents basic troops. I think weapons like las cannons would be nice if brings something like a soul grinder or a demon with high int. Also, know that half of his army will becoming in the first turn, so he will probably prefer for you to go first. It is likely your long fangs and back line may see action right away. If you have units close together, and by the board edge, I imagine it may increase the chance of a mishap as they come in.

 

I think your grey hunters will do very well with their shooting and combat potential. Keep in my that a lot of demon stuff has ways around armor saves. Blood letters have power weapons, deamonettes rend. My terminators learned these things the hard way.

 

It is to bad you can't change your powers. Jaws is amazing against the big fat demons like the nurgle character and plague beares. They have something dumb like int 2. No saves of any kind, do not pass go, do not collect $200. Murderous hurricane works nice if uses a lot of Demonettes, because they are wicked fast, yet fragile.

 

I apologize if I've told you a bunch of things you already know. I didn't know anything going into my game. Also, I am very new to 40k and very new to space wolves. Please be sure take all of these thoughts with several grains of salt. These ideas are just my opinion after playing a single opponent.

[NTFH]

Well is it a khorne - nurgle list?

is it a khorne list?

is it khorne - slaneesh?

is it tzeentch?

is it tzeentch - khorne - slaneesh?

 

Most of the time I find facing deamons pretty straightforward.

 

rune priest(s) should have:

--Tempests Wrath (all the units in his army enter via deepstrike. and a 24" radius is quite a good footprint)

--Murderous Hurricane (most diverse against the meaty units. sure it's str 3. but it's volume.)

--Jaws of the World Wolf (against Nurgle mostly)

 

find out right away who counts as having frag grenade equivalent for charging in cover (daemonettes and others...)

if you are facing mainly khorne and nurgle, stick to terrain/cover so if he makes it to charge, you strike first.

shoot as much as possible before entering hand to hand.

 

Ideally you want to win the dice roll for deployment and elect that your opponent choose zones so you can guarantee going second.

You want him to land and get shot at on turn one. Shoot as much as you can. Try to cut down entire units in the first wave. Pick something in the first wave that is the biggest threat to you and if it is easily in range of a good amount of your firepower, concentrate on it and take it down.

 

If he is heavy on shooty tzeentch, it can be a bit more tricky, but cover and a good firebase is still a great place to start. Daemon armies like to see the enemy drawn out into the open so they can gang up on you easier and also make a joke of your regular saving throws.

 

I have seen far to many a demon player with one or two game winner units in his list. Meaning that in the grand scheme of things he relies on said unit to pull his arse out off the fire when things go bad or generally mop up a scattered enemy with it. Large units of fiends of slaneesh come to mind...

 

If you're facing a fast moving daemon list, the rhinos will only help so much.

 

I think the big factor for you will be shooting with the grey hunters and long fangs. the Thunderwolf cavalry as protection to your firebase.

 

Don't get drawn in to wittling down units in his arm all at the same time. Pick his game winning units. Depending on how he conducts himself, it may be very easy to figure out the units he loves to kill with. Wipe those out as priority and then concentrate on keeping him away. Keep check on wether he has long range firepower in a soulgrinder or something else.

 

Expect a lot of close combat potential that you won't be able to easily win.

 

If he's got a lot of khorne and slaneesh, shooting is your friend.

If you can manage to pick your fights well with the cavalry before fisticuffs with his better assaulters, the game should go fine.

[Simo429]

What would you describe as game winning units for deamons?

Should I concentrate on soul grinders which im fairly sure he will have at least one of or knocking off his HQ's first?

Bloodletters are the thing that scare me with all those power weapon attacks.

[NTFH]

blood letters are relatively slow moving. The get Furious Charge but don't have frag grenade equivalent for assault. If they are going to be able to assault you, you need to be in cover so you strike first and stomp on them. bloodletters have invulerable save but it is only 5+. Bloodcrushers are much more dangerous with thier 2 wounds a piece, ironhide and strength.

 

If the soul grinder has good shooting, it's a priority when far away. If it doesn't have good shooting then it's an assault range threat.

 

Game winning units? Well it depends on the player. He may run the bloodcrusher unit of doom in his perferred second wave. He may load up on two big units of fiends. He may rely on daemon princes. You'll see when you know his list. If he has a lot of plaguebearers in the first wave, he is likely setting you up to get bogged down so he can run around the table with fiends and/or bloodcrushers plus daemon princes. Who knows?

 

You should be wary of everything in his list. The first wave needs to get the pressure on it hard.

 

When you deploy, you like should not spread out too much. maybe two seperate firebases, IF AT ALL. Since half his army comes in on turn one, you want to go second. Sure, he gets to give you the less appealing deployment zone, but you will get to shoot. He will want you to go first so you waste an entire turn. Shoot him up and mop up with the cavalry. Don't get drawn into the open against tzeentch and khorne. Nurgle should be a pice of cake for you as long as you hit them with lots of volume. Slaneesh is probably more of our bane if he has them in large numbers.

 

If his list is all suited close up fighting, it's best to take out the fast guys and then take out the next biggest assault threat one by one. have your grey hunter dissembarked from thier rhinos, with the grey hunters between the rhino and the enemy. this will give you a clear arc of fire while having a rhino to embark on an drive away. Unless he kills the rhino, but that will likely mean the grey hunters are in better shape for numbers and can deliver more bolter fire.

 

Do not be too proud. Be willing to move away from assault range. As in any 40K game, you want to fight on your own terms, not the opponents.

 

I don't know what else to say without ranting or just sending too much info your way.

[Grimtooth]

Tempest Wrath has been great againat daemon armies I have faced.

 

Getting your units into cover and staying there shooting the whole time until assaulted, then COUNTERATTACK!

[NTFH]

Tempest Wrath has been great againat daemon armies I have faced.

 

Getting your units into cover and staying there shooting the whole time until assaulted, then COUNTERATTACK!

 

 

True. So few units have frag grenade equivalents for assaulting in the daemon dex that cover is a must.

[Emperor's Instrument]

Basically I would advise 'castling' your units at deployment. I play a Daemon army as well as Space Marines.

 

The game could be decided in the first and second turns depending on your shooting and your opponents deep strikes.

 

If there is a Soulgrinder in the list it will no doubt have the Phlegm profile battle cannon (big template, insta-kill marines not in cover) therefore kill it. You can't shake or stun it though, it's immune to this through the Daemon special rule. It's got good AV as well, F13 and 11 everywhere else.

 

Bloodletters are not a problem if you put enough bullets into them but don't be tempted to whittle a unit down to three or four guys then move on to the next one. Four bloodletters can still ruin a full strength GH or BC unit in an assault, especially if the daemons go first as they hit and kill on three's.

 

Bloodcrushers are horrendous if they get into an assault. Again they'll hit first and they will kill on two's (IIRC) on the charge. They have a 3+ save and a 5+ invul.

 

Bloodthirsters are nasty but at four wounds he is killable in one round of shooting, just depends really what your immediate threats are, he can move 12" though so he's bloody quick. Hits on three's and kills on two's. But a unit of GH or BC could slow it down for a turn or two while you shoot everything else to bits.

 

Flamers are any nasty unit. If used properly they will deep strike into cover so you can't shot at them and then in your opponents next turn they will jump over/out of cover (they move 12") and destroy which ever unit they can put those flame templates on. Kills on a 4+ with no armour or cover saves allowed. They can even glance your vehicles on a 4+ regardless of what it is.

 

When the new units begin deepstriking in on turn two try and soften them up as best you can unless there are more nasty thing close by. When the new units turn up all they can do is shoot or run up to 6" so get the bullets in to them quick if you can.

 

As a last resort, charge bloodletters or bloodcrushers before they charge you. Denying that extra attack plus the furious charge seriously makes sense unless of course it's five marines running into 20 bloodletters of course :D

 

The units I've mentioned here are what can be found in my daemon army so the others I can't comment on, plus I'm 400 miles from my codex, so I'd advise popping across to the Liber Malifictorium for some more daemon info.

 

Hope this helps.

[Glimpse the Void]

I'd imagine one needs to be on the look out for blood crushers, fiends, and deamonettes. They move really quickly and are not much fun in hand to hand. I imagine if you can kill these kind of units first, you widdle the rest down in shooting and mop up the remainder.

[Kassill]

The thing I noticed about Daemons, is that since there are so few of them at times, it is easy to concentrate your fire on what is on the board. Just a thought.

[Grimtooth]

I would say use your Thunderlord and TWC specifically for Soul Grinder hunting. Failing that, use them as 2nd wave assault to clean up anything that is left over from your Grey Hunters recieving assaults while in cover.

[narf]

the best two powers you can use against daemons are tempests wrath and murderous hurricane.

 

Tempests wrath - hurts deepsrikers within 24" of the caster, ideal against daemons

 

Murderous hurricane - high amount of low strength hits, combined with most daemons low armour save this is great. also as they then have to treat all terrain as difficult and dangerous stuff like bloodletters will be going last in combat when they assault, and may loose more models when moving into the assault.

 

Failing that on your troops the Gh should always opt to rapid fire, and think about taking the free flamers to cause more wounds.

 

Your heavy support should include LF's with ML's and cyclone WG's as this will allow you high strength against MS's and SG's and also area effect against troops.

 

Dont under estimate dreadnoughts, they are the best form of defence against bloodcrushers and can only really be taken down by DP's and SG's in combat (though rending daemonettes will slow you down)