Enemies 101

[Shadowstalker Grim]

Hello there! I was hoping to construct an enemies 101 section, a sort of basics introduction to our enemies that players can use to get to grips with the different armies in 40k all in one place. With the help of the masterful and experienced people here in the tactics section I hope we can get some basic information for players to use against any factions they face!

 

Now this doesn't need to be too in depth, just the basics (in depth information could be written on each faction) so what do you all think of the idea? If yes...

 

That means i need info on:

 

Black Templars* - pg 4

Blood Angels* - pg 3

Chaos Demons* - pg 3

Chaos Space Marines * - pg 1

Dark Angels* - pgs 3, 4

Dark Eldar* - pg 4

Demonhunters* - pg 3

Eldar * - pgs 1, 4

Imperial Guard * - pg 1

Necrons * - pg 1, 3

Orks* - pg 2

Space Marines * - pg 1

Space Wolves * - pg 1

Tau Empire * - pg 1

Tyranids* - pg 2

Witch Hunters* - pg 3

 

EDIT: * = information has been provided (feel free to expand in your own edits or create a seperate post if you feel theres things to add)

 

I was thinking of putting them into handy information 'packs' such as this:

 

Space Marines:

 

How they play:

Space marines embody the generalist approach with squads capable of multi tasking and doing a lot of jobs well. They also can use a large variety of units and strategies. Marines operate well at a mid to long range though do have some good close combat units. Marines can also use special characters to completely change the way they play.

 

Strengths:

They have a very good 3+ save almost army wide and a decent profile in general. They pack units for every scenario and these units can usually threaten multiple enemy units. They can deploy with transports that will be mobile or deep striking and maybe a mixture of both, meaning that they have a variety of ways to deal with enemies. Their units and wargear allows them to have a mix of specialist units and generalist units to easily kill off large numbers of enemies and you can bet they’ll be easily able to pack a variety of guns for the job.

 

Weaknesses:

Their generalist nature means that they can struggle to deal with certain aspects of the enemy because of the way they do not have a good focus on it, equally their focussed units will not be as strong as enemy focussed units. They also need a form of transport to be generally effective as on foot they lose much of their usefulness. High cost means that they will generally be low in numbers so marines need to make the best of what they bring.

 

What to watch for:

Unit – Land Raider, a tough AV 14 all round beast, well armed and armoured it’ll be tough to shift and can deal some real damage. It is also capable of loading up lots of models inside and that can assault out of it so you can bet there’s probably a nasty CC unit inside.

 

Tactic – Drop Pod army, The army can shoot through the sky to deploy right in the thick of it, essentially landing targets in your lap, giving you little time to react to them! This will leave them divided however so make the most of this fact

[minigun762]

Do you want us to write up a report in this thread or should we PM them to you so you can consolidate?

 

Either way, I'll do CSMs.

[Shadowstalker Grim]

Might as well add them to this thread, and i'll take it and put it into one document at a later date i guess. Either way lets get them in the same place for now!

[KhorneHunter57x]

Now this doesn't need to be too in depth, just the basics (in depth information could be written on each faction) so what do you all think of the idea? If yes...

I think that it's a great idea! I would be willing to do the Tau one.

 

EDIT: Here you go.

 

How they play:

- The Tau are known for their powerful shooting, as well as good mobility. Although they don't have the sheer speed of the Eldar, almost every unit in a Tau army can move 12" and shoot at least a portion of their weaponry. Tau are the middle ground between an elite army like Space Marines and a horde army like Imperial Guard, and Tau are more of an 'elite-lite' army, with good armor and weaponry. However, the Tau are almost totally reliant on shooting.

 

Strength:

- Tau favor medium-long range shooting, as they have a decent BS and are equipped with good armor and guns. The basic infantryman's gun is strong enough to threaten even Rhinos, and most other Tau units have the ability to threaten both armor and infantry with shooting. Use cover to your advantage and close with them.

 

Weakness:

- The major weakness of a Tau army is close combat. Most Tau units have an Initiative of 3 or worse, and they also suffer from a horrible weapon skill. Tau players hate close combat, and will sometimes go to great lengths to avoid it. Use this to your advantage.

 

Key units to watch for:

- Hammerhead Gunships. Between good armor, a main weapon that can switch between anti-tank and anti-infantry modes, and upgrades that allow it to fire like a Fast vehicle and gain a permanent cover save, the Hammerhead combines flexibility, mobility, and durability. However, their cover save does not work when the shooting is coming from within 12", and althought they have good front and side armor, they have thin rear armor. Get in close, and get behind them.

- Broadside Battlesuits. Aptly named, they are the ultimate anti-tank unit outside of Apocalypse. With a twin-linked Railgun, an excellent armor save, and a pair of wounds, the Broadside is tough to kill and it is lethal to anything with an armor value. Usually they will be either parked in cover (sometimes with Shield Drones, which are effectively extra ablative models) or equipped with the ability to move and fire (continuing the Tau theme of mobility) and used more aggressively. Like all Tau units, they are weak in close combat, and they are slow, making it easier for you to catch them.

- Crisis Battlesuits. Although not as tough as their cousin, the Broadside, they still pack a good amount of firepower and can move and fire to full effect. They can be equipped with weapons to take down anything from hordes to elite units to transports to heavy armor. The most common loadout is one that combines an Autocannon and a slightly weaker Plasma Gun with the ability to fire two weapons at once. Also, they move like standard Jump Infantry, but their move is split between the Movement and Assault phase, allowing them to jump in front of cover, shoot, and then jump back behind it. They are expensive and vulnerable to assaults, though they are quick and agile enough to avoid it. Also, Krak missiles are powerful enough to ignore their armor and insta-kill them.

- Pathfinders. Although not very strong on their own, they can boost the already good shooting of other Tau units to even better levels. They will usually be deployed in cover, but they are no tougher than a regular Fire Warrior though (T 3, 4+ Sv), so get them in close combat, or even shoot them to pieces.

[minigun762]

How they play:

Chaos Space Marines (CSMs) are similar to other Marines on the surface being as they use many of the same vehicles and plenty of PA Marines. However they have key differences that really define the codex and the playstyle. CSMs perform best on the tabletop when they are built as an aggressive, mobile army who seek to close the distance between themselves and their opponents. 12" away or less is where you are your strongest.

 

Strength:

* Troop Choices, I would argue that this is their greatest strength, they have amazing troop choices that will often be superior to the Elite choices from other armies, including other Marine armies. Almost every successful CSM army is built around a large core of Troops and it is one of the few armies that can be successful with only troops. This also means that objective-based games are easier on you since you will already have multiple scoring units.

* Pure killing power, Chaos can be very deadly. We often trade special rules or fancy army-wide buffs for additional killing power, mostly in close combat.

* Flexible units, this is most obvious in our Chaos Marines and Obliterators but many of our units are able to multi-task very effectively. When properly equipped, a Chaos Space Marine squad can take on any unit in the game with a reasonable chance for success.

 

Weakness:

*Expense, our cheapest scoring unit starts at 13 points and they go all the way up to 23 per model. As a whole, we find it harder to field large armies then other armies as this acts as a balance for our unit's flexibility and killing power. Be prepared to be outnumbered in most games.

* Long range firepower, with the exception of our Heavy section we lack any kind of cost effective long range firepower. This is also a balance to our short range nature and reinforces the idea that to be successful, Chaos must be aggressive and mobile.

* No army-wide bonuses or control units, with the expection of the Lash Prince, Chaos lack significant ways to control the battle outside of killing. We have very little to influence the game through reserves, special rules or other such things.

 

Key units to watch for:

* Daemon Princes, almost without exception they will be given wings and quite often some kind of close combat power. Fast, deadly and durable, they act to put pressure on your army and force you to choose between killing the Daemon Prince or the rest of the army.

* Plague Marines, FnP and T5 make for an extremely tough unit. Now put that unit in cover and make it Fearless and you have a scoring unit that is nearly impossible to kick off an objective without a lot of effort.

* Berserkers, in many ways the opposite of Plague Marines. They exist to slaughter your scoring units and claim their objectives (and skulls) for their own. Think of them as super Ork Boyz in Power Armor and you'll have a good idea of their capabilities.

* Obliterators, A true swiff army knife unit, they are the Chaos answer everything. Anything from heavy armor to horde, they have a weapon for it. Add on a great armor save, 2 wounds and an inv. save and you can't go wrong. Oh yeah, they can also move and shoot those weapons.

[Blitzkreig]

Well, I will take a crack at either Space Wolves or Chaos Daemons if you would like (hell I could probably do both but we might as well let others in on the fun )...

 

Edit:

 

Well here is my attempt at the Space Wolf one... but if you want the best get Grey Mage in here.

 

Space Wolves

 

How they Play: The closer a Space Wolf player gets to you, the more dangerous he becomes. Long Range firepower is a fairly weak aspect, usually functioning in a support capacity while the close range units pummel you. Speed and Strength are their greatest tools, with a full mech army being one of the most dangerous things to play if a competent player is commanding it.

 

Strengths: Like Codex: Space Marines, Space Wolves have a 3+ save on almost every unit. They have superb close combat troops and their basic unit (Grey Hunters) are able to go toe-to-toe with almost unit in the game and hold their own quite well. They excel at close range and in the assault.

 

Weaknesses: They generally number around the same as a Space Marine army and are unable to put out the firepower Marines can at long range. Space Wolves excel at 24" and closer but are severly hampered beyond this. Wolf Guard in particular can be a very expensive unit and will almost always be outnumbered.

 

Units to watch out for:

*Grey Hunters - Quite possibly the best value-for-points unit in the game, Grey Hunters share the statline of a Marine and have 2 attacks in every round of combat. Rather than a Heavy Weapon they can take 2 specials, a Power Weapon/Fist, Marine with D6+1 Rending attacks and an item which allows them to re-roll all 1's for a single round of combat.

*Long Fangs - Extremely deadly, they carry Heavy Weapons and can shoot 2 different targets per turn, meaning they are full capable of thinning out tanks and infantry with ease.

*Thunderwolf Cavalry - S5, T5, 2W and rending means that even without upgrades they will be able to tear through basic infantry and even handle Terminators.

*Wolf Lords - If SW players decide to go overboard on the cost of these bad boys you will be staring down the single most deadly non-named character in the game. For armound 250 Points you will be looking at a unit with S5 (6 with a Frost Weapon, 10 if given a TH) who can walk through any unit it reaches...

*Wolf Guard - The SW equivalent to Veterans, Wolf Guard can carry any CC weapon in the army and a Storm Shield. Wolf Guard are the only way for a SW player to get Terminators but will often be the unit which takes the fight to the enemy, bearing the brunt of any assault and pushing them back with equal ease.

[pueriexdeus]

Just a little note here. When I know Im up against an OP with an army I don't know. I tend to search out their relevant forums, search through them and see what their up to.

[chapter master 454]

i feel there's enough marine tactica here in this forum from me in he form of my earth army thread I made. So time for some necrons.

 

general overview

necrons are considered one of the hardest armies to kill in 40k. You can waste an entire shooting phase to down 30 of them for 15-20 of them to come back and march forward again. They are marine toughness of T4 and eve pack good armour (3+ armour save). Their shooting is their more pronouced strength however unlike tau, you should expect a few gauss flayer axes to the head before you start thinking assaulting necrons with nothing short of deticated assaulters is a good idea (since most necron phalanx blocks consist of 10-20 necrons). With S4 they can easily assault things marines would and still come out with grisly new trophies for it however they march so slow your better to just do the rapid fire from guass flayers. They also carry with them limited, but extremely deadly, weapons so your never torn for choice. Some see that as a disadvantage but in terms of utility, it makes them nearly water in their style (bar they don't pack any real form of transport unless you set up a monolith network and have lords running veil of darknes services like buses :P ).

 

Strengths and weaknesses

With necrons, they are strange in that they require spam to be effective however their basic (and only) trooper comes in at 18 points per pop. However 18 points nets you a guy who can affect any tank (albeit was nerfed in 5th edition but still works) and will rip apart most infantry with his guass flayer. They truely shine in the area of rapidly deployed rapid fire. A necron force can put up to 40 odd right next to one of your units and not have to need to move them but say 'They use X and go to Y' which is very daunting. To add to it their only tank (which is also the toughest tank in 40k bar apoc units) is able t not only teleport units to itself, but also deep strike in, deploy a unit of fresh warriors to the field or put down a nice tasty pie plate.

To top it off, they have the most mobile of all heavy weapons that are also considered to be some of the msot fiercesome (a unit that can most 12", fire a 36" ranged weapon that fires 3 S6 AP4 shots a turn and is T5 with 3+ save and the necron get back up roll? yeah, few can match that). In short they are quite scarey looking.

 

However with great power comes great...drawbacks (you thought I was going to say responiblities now didn't you ;) ) and they manifest the forms of limited options for wargear, only 4-6 units from the codex are actually of any real proper use. Any necron force without destroyers must have something like 30 immortals because thats the only reason I can think of for not fielding at least one squad of them. Even then, majority of them are necrons and this is important for their imfamous phase out rule.

In short: plaster them down to below 25% strength and you win regardless of conditions. however it's below 25% of all necron models on the field. Necron refers to any of their models that get 'we'll be back' so scarabs, c'tan, pariahs, tomb spyders and even the extremely infamous monolith don't count towards it. So if see any of the listed: ignore if you can hit a necron unit. Only shoot at them if there is nothing better to shoot (and this goes infinite times more for monoliths, every last lascannon you have should fcous on the necrons) because while phase out only counts necrons, if the army drops to below 25% necrons of what it started with, they all disappear regardless of th rule and necrons lose.

 

Tips

-Try and get your units to run down necrons, not even the infamous ressurection orb can bring them back from that

-take power weapons and get them spread out across the army. Power weapons negate WBB rolls and also makes the necron player suffer for where his res orbs ain't

*care of the infamous destroyer lord. DoW games make them look like push overs but they ain't. T6, 3+ save, 3 wounds and most pack res orbs and phylacteries along with a warsycthe for elite unit hunting. Some would say ignore, some would say focus. The truth is, neither can be done because they only break cover to charge what they want then turbo boost away as your tanks/terminators lay dead from the armour and invunerable save ignoring warsycthe. S5 doesn't help ether! If you do catch him though out in the open with a large unit of some kind then get them stuck in (orks can do this well with 30 odd boyz but us marines have to do with 10 man squads...ugh) to combat. Every turn he loses cutting down 16 point marines is another tank/elite unit you've stopped him mauling.

*IGNORE MONOLITHS I can't stress this enough.

[Sternguard sergeant McColl]

I'm going to do Eldar, because I play them as a second army

 

 

 

Overview:

Eldar are the fastest army in 40k second only to their dark kin, which are a rarity at best. Their strengths lie in speed and each units utter suitability to a role. With I5 almost all around, fleet and 36" boosting tanks they can run circles around most armies, and kill them before they can attack in CC.

 

Strengths:

Eldar aspect warriors are the ultimate in dedicated killing, with high I a very good save and some other neat abilities for hunting their unit type of choice. With their speed they can easily make Turn 2 assaults, firing all the way in. and their tanks are a new level of hard to kill, by either reducing weapon strength to 8 with 1d6 max, or making you roll 2d6 and take the lowest for penetation.

 

Weaknesses: while fast and elite with dedicated units, the eldar have many glaring flaws. First of all, most eldar completely rely on psychic powers to boost their killiness. Kill the farseer and Eldar effectiveness drops exponentially. Also, because they have so many dedicated killers, a focused army can make many of their units nullz. For example a horde ork army is not very worried about fire dragons. In the same sense you can specifically target and destroy the eldar element that will hurt you the most right away, If you run 60 tacticals those banshees or harlequins might be target priority.

[Vaktathi]

Imperial Guard

 

How they play: Imperial Guard are first and foremost a shooting army. Generally this means some form of gunline, either in infantry form or mechanized.

Now, there is the potentiality of blob platoon armies, however these will come later. In general, IG are an army built around pounding a foe with heavy weapons and ordnance, and slapping anything that gets close with a prodigious amount of special weapons like plasma guns and meltas.

 

Your typical competitive IG army will be mechanized, with lots and lots of armor and heavy weapons, they will want to keep you across the board and shoot you to pieces, whilst hiding within their chimerabunkers. This will work exceedingly well if you don't close that distance. Most nonmechanized IG armies will also basically do the same thing, but are more vulnerable to weapons fire and assaults and have less mobility, but more dudes.

 

Now, there are also blob platoons, where the Infantry Squads combine. With up to 5 powerweapon wielding commissars and 5 powerweapon wielding sergeants, with 45 ablative wounds gunning 5 special and 5 heavy weapons, sporting rerollable Stubborn Ld9, such a unit will *EAT* anything you throw into it, even something like Khorne Berzerkers or kitted Thunderwolf Cavalry, and have enough left over to still dominate a flank. The chief issue here being that it gives up a huge amount of flexibility that the small IG squads normally offer. Such units are further bolstered by Colonel Straken as an HQ choice, who gives units within 12" of him Counterattack and Furious Charge (your kitted TWC's or Assault Termi's are going to melt if they try and take on such a unit)

 

 

Strengths: Shooting. DO NOT TRY AND WIN A SHOOTING WAR. You can't. Imperial Guard will win a shooting war against any army out there barring poor dice rolling. They have answers to everything, generally in sufficient numbers to ensure that even if one misses and one is dead, another will get through. They flat out the best artillery available in the game, more access to heavy weapons (e.g. S5+ 36"+ weapons) than any other army out there, and have a greater control over how to use that firepower, due to the greater spread of weapons over more units within the army, so they can direct each weapon to it's best use better than other armies.

 

Numbers, especially...TANKS!

 

You can often expect that for an IG army at say, 2000pts, will have 15 distinct armor units on the table or more, consisting of AV12 to AV14 units, and still pack in 70+ infantry quire often with more heavy/special weapons than you will have models.

 

No army in the game can compete with the flexibility and expansiveness of the IG FoC. When other armies are essentially looking to bulk up on wargear and upgrades, IG are still adding more guns, dudes and tanks. Each IG platoon can fit in nearly 150 infantry and 6 AV12 tanks. Not only can IG expand really well, they can also pack a lot into few points. For under 1000pts, IG can pack in 6 AV12 tanks, 18 heavy weapons, and 18 meltaguns with 6 scoring units and 60 BS4 dudes.

 

Also, since IG are so weak in CC, generally CC upgrades are rather pointless. IG don't care about your lightning claws, powerweapons, or force weapons, these are all needless overkill. They don't care about your powerfists or Rending except in an AT capacity. Most of these things are utterly *wasted* points against Imperial Guard.

 

Finally, Valkyries/Vendettas can give IG a ridiculous Alpha Strike capability (scout up, turn 1 disembark melta troops, move them, shoot at tanks, follow up with krak grenades if need be, valk/vend moves back and shoots at other stuff) in addition to outflank capacity and objective nabbing capabilities.

 

Weaknesses: CC. Everything in the IG army (save for the aforementioned blob platoons) dies to almost anything in CC. 3 Tac marines really are all you need to ensure a quick defeat for a 10man IG infantry squad. Nearly everything, from tanks to infantry, is exceedingly vulnerable to assaults. Multiple assaults are what kills this army.

 

However, a canny IG general can often turn this to their advantage. It doesn't take much to kill off most IG units, so most IG commanders are just fine with losing units to destroy yours. It's cool watching a your 200pt assault unit utterly annihilate an infantry squad before it does anything. It's not so cool after your 200pt unit gets finished slaughtering that 65pt unit and is now stuck clumped up in LoS of 2 battlecannons and in rapid fire range of 6 plasma guns and a dozen multilasers and heavy bolters.

 

Always, always, ALWAYS try to hit as many units as possible. If there are 3 units in a Ruin, hit them all with your tac squad or assault marines, if you can reach two chimeras, hit them both, etc. You likely won't ever be overwhelmed, and you'll likely kill everything off eventually, but probably not right away, keeping you safe from the following IG players shooting phase, and potentially clearing an entire flank in one or two decent assaults.

 

With IG, your shooting is supplemental, you will win through closing, getting amongst the IG player, and destroying them through assaults. If you try and win through shooting, unless you either have a very, very tailored list or the dice gods hate someone, the IG player will destroy you.

 

The one exception of course is the blob platoons. This is a unit that you *can* try to outshoot and outmaneuver, as it gives up lot of flexbility for power, and dumping a bunch of flamers on it before a solid assault from a couple units can swing it for you.

 

Watch for: Just about any Heavy Support units from the Imperial Guard book, especially however Leman Russ Battle Tanks, Leman Russ Executioners, Collossus, Medusa, and Manticores. Also, Valkyries and most especially Vendettas, and Chimeras carrying Company Command Squads (and Advisors!), Platoon Command Squads, Veterans, and Blob platoons.

[Resv]

Quick addition to what Vaktathi said above about IG:

 

Iron Hand Straken- Old Iron Hand is one of the most popular HQ choices in the current codex. Besides his rather devastating CC ability (for a member of the Imperial Guard that is) he can take that blob platoon that Vakt outlined above and make it even MORE fearsome. Any friendly unit in his bubble gets Furious Charge and Counter Attack making all of those lowly Guardsmen hit like Space Marines! Also, he can't be singled out in CC as he is part of this Command Squad so he is covered with ablative wounds to a certain degree. Always remember: before the game starts to get a quick run down on your opponents army, even if they give you a printed out army list.

 

Veteran Squads- These guys are another unit to look out for. At only 10 strong they don't take much to get rid of for a Marine player but they can pack some serious hurt with 3 special weapons in a squad and the option to give every Vet Melta Bombs and a single Demolition Charge. The now infamous Mech Vet squad is a cheap, efficient, and devastating.

 

Demolition Charges- These things are one of the sleeper items in the current Guard Codex. While they are just as dangerous to the users as the intended target they do get written off but they are absolutely FRIGHTENING when used tactically. If you haven't been on the recieveing end of one of these things it is a Large Blast S8 AP2 assault one shot weapon. I have had IG players destroy squads of Marines with these when they were in a vulnerable position, like disembarking or deep striking. Special Weapons Squads can carry 6 of them which is a scary proposition.

 

Psyker Battle Squads- I don't know why this wasn't mentioned above in detail but these units are almost game breaking. They can toss out a large blast template at up to S9 AP-D6 every turn from inside a chimera. Their other power is the the ability to lower the leadership of one unit equal to the amount of psykers in the squad to a minimum of 2. Suddenly your Marines are breaking or getting pinned really easily. The worst part about Battle Squads though is that they are CHEAP for what they can accomplish.

 

One of the biggest weaknesses of Imperial Guard is one that a lot of people don't think about in such a cerebral place like the internet. That issue is terrain. A Guard player can put down tons of tanks and vehicles or a 30+ unit of Troops but if the table is set up with a decent amount of terrain (at least 25-30 percent including ruins and trees and all of that cool stuff) then maneuvering these big units becomes a challenge. Maintaining synergy becomes a challenge and it forces a limit to the fire power IG can put out.

 

Just adding in some additional thoughts.

[Vaktathi]

The primary reason I didn't go into the PBS too much is that they don't quite get their powers off as often as most others (ld9 vs 10), are vulnerable to most psychic defense, and an LRBT is a far better unit in terms of firepower and survivabilty, and the LD ability means nothing against many units, being Fearless.

 

They are great units and very powerful, but not so scary as sometimes portrayed.

[DemetriiTZ]

Until paired with a Callidus Assassin.. Then, suddenly, they're incredible.

[Seahawk]

Special Weapons Squads can carry 6 of them which is a scary proposition.

Only 3, not 6. But when there are two such squads and they're cheap as chips.

[chapter master 454]

I'll add in a further note about straken: if the player also takes 2 bodyguards he can effectively stop you even getting a single wound on him for him to take a save on. Since each bodyguard can take a further 2 hits for straken that are asigned to him which means at full strength you will need to strike straken in allocation 5 times before you even get a chance to make him take a save (which is a 3+/5++ which he can also get a FNP roll for too since you can't allocate wounds to him, he often just takes chainswords to the face). Also, remind your opponent that if he says his shotgun is str4, tell him different. Imperial guard get a str3 shotgun, not str4. However if anything the shotgun is there for the badass factor!

[Br.Pat]

This is turning into an Imperial Guard discussion...

[Shadowstalker Grim]

Phew one week hols so sorry for not stopping by sooner! Well a big thank you to everyone who has posted this information so far, we've covered quite a few!

 

So yes, again a big thank you all! And keep it coming!

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Psyker Battle Squads- I don't know why this wasn't mentioned above in detail but these units are almost game breaking. They can toss out a large blast template at up to S9 AP-D6 every turn from inside a chimera. Their other power is the the ability to lower the leadership of one unit equal to the amount of psykers in the squad to a minimum of 2. Suddenly your Marines are breaking or getting pinned really easily. The worst part about Battle Squads though is that they are CHEAP for what they can accomplish.

 

Well I have not had the opportunity to fight them, so bare with me. I don't agree with your call though.

 

5 extra Psykers + Chimera = 165 pts.

How is that different to a Vindicator, Leman Russ or Basilisk?

 

Chimera has AV 12-10. Only the Basilisk is as 'low' as its value.

 

It is a shooting attack, so if the Chimera is stunned/shaken, can it fire that turn?

 

Psychic test. Ld 9.

1/6 chance of fail.

 

If within range of hood, dispelled on 4+ [or table-wide for a Grey-Knight]

 

How is this game breaking? or CHEAP for what they can accomplish?

 

As for the morale power, how is that more deadly than being hit by a Battle Cannon or the power that 50% of the time is ap3 beating? If your Marines are on Foot, they will get smoked. Have them in transports. By the time they get your Marines out of Rhinos, you have had just as long to get the Psykers out of theirs....

 

t3 sv5+ will turn to mist with a turns worth of bolter fire.

 

What do you think?

 

This is turning into an Imperial Guard discussion...

 

If it is the bugbear of many, it needs the attention.

Is there an enemy you would like focused on, or would like to focus on?

[Br.Pat]

I don't mind discussing them, as long as this thread doesn't turn into a multi-page IG discussion.

 

I wouldn't like any particular army to be focused on, but we haven't seen anything about oh say Orks or Dark Eldar so far (two armies that I have little experience against)

[Shadowstalker Grim]

Lets keep this on track, we have basic info on the IG. There needs to be no more discussion about it really. Like i said keep it BASIC, only make additional posts if you think it is essentially part of basics for that army that people NEED to know about. So far this has been adhered to so lets keep it going that way eh! If you feel it is essential to tell someone whos never faced IG before this info then say it, if its something that may be better discussed in an in depth IG article then place it there.

 

Most important is for new information on the armies that havent yet been covered :D

 

Thank you all again!

[chapter master 454]

I would give info on orks, daemons and dark eldar however my only experience is against people who loved to cheese it up.

 

Orks: will just conga line until in charge range having made it through your firepower pretty much unharmed due to a broken cover system

 

Dark eldar: will just run away and wear you down and you can't do jack about it because of the wychs they dumped on your heavy weapons or dark lances mincing you tanks

 

daemons: While I've faced a more fluffy list of daemons once, so far all I can say is they are overpowered. 12 juggernauts, two squads of daemonettes, 3 soul grinders and the masque just for legality. It's record: has only been beat once and that was at a tournament, the guy who beat it went on to be tournament winner. When you played it, it ws you playing, you just turned up for formal reasons of declaring a winner.

 

 

Not sure if those count since I am more earth army based (static gunline marines) but thats mt experience for those 3 armies. Oh and ork biker nobs, if you see them you can most likely kiss your game goodbye between them and the conga line they are leading. Like I said, thats my experience.

[DemetriiTZ]

Hello, Time Traveler from the Distant Past, and welcome to the World of Tomorrow!!

 

Daemons in all iterations suck, and Biker Nobs die to battlecannon pieplates, melta guns, Hive Guard Impaler Cannons, Vindicator Shells, Krak Missiles, Lascannons, Bloodstrike Missiles, Railguns, Monolith Pieplates, Leman Russ shots, etc.! God forbid you introduce them to TH/SS Terminators in a Land Raider; boy, oh boy, they really LOVE those. Oh, and did I mention the Battlepsyker Squad + Callidus combo?

 

"Hi, your Nobs are now Ld.2. Enjoy this S8 flamer template which ignores cover and armor saves, and wounds based on Leadership. Instant-death for all."

 

Even Fatecrusher builds for Daemons kind of crumble against someone who knows how they work; and have you seen Daemons versus Tyranids? Lol. Poor Daemons.

[Chengar Qordath]

Even Fatecrusher builds for Daemons kind of crumble against someone who knows how they work; and have you seen Daemons versus Tyranids? Lol. Poor Daemons.

And if the Daemon player is up against someone allying-in Daemonhunters Inquisitors and mytics, it gets even worse. Eating an entire Leman Russ Squadron or infantry platoon's shooting the istant you land on the board hurts, especially with IG's ability to screw with reserve rolls.

[DemetriiTZ]

Oh God, yes. I'm sorry, but unreliable deployment for an entire army seems like an insurmountable (consistently) handicap. If they could deploy on the board, Daemons would be "Top Tier", or close to it, in my opinion; the fact that they all have to deepstrike, and that you sometimes even get the wrong squads "forced in" makes the entire army a little too iffy for my tastes. The higher the % of the game you don't have to roll dice to determine, the better. Introducing random odds into an army's very deployment can sometimes be worthwhile, but not always, which is why most armies have a choice of making use of reserves. Forcing an army to make use of reserves means you will always have certain disadvantages which no amount of tactics or good playing can ever make up for -- and it's not even a "small" chance. 33% of the time, you get the wrong wave.

 

No wonder they spend so much time in the Warp. Poor suckers're hiding from the real armies. :D

[Blitzkreig]

Obviously you have never faced a GOOD Daemon player.... sure they are far from a top tier army but they are a lot tougher than you seem to be giving them credit for. But yes, forcing them to make use of Deep Strike is rather stupid, "Oh look I just lost a unit in my initial wave to a mishap and the other bloody wave is coming in 1 unit at a time AREN'T I BLOODY GOOD!"