Kharn vs Mephiston

[BDS]

I have read a few time in "Khârn killed today..." thread the mightly Khârn taking out Mephiston so I reviewd both sets of rules and the CSM FAQ.

 

It appears one could make a case that Mephistons sanquine sword and unleash rage would have no in game effect on Khârn.

 

Is this how others are playing it when these two behemoths meet on the field?

 

Thanks,

BDS

[Brother Turok]

Khârn = immune to psychic powers. This means more than just force weapons (even though it mentions that too...). Sanquine sword and unleash rage are psychic powers, so as long as they are used against him they are null and void. Basically Mephiston would have his basic stats against Khârn. Basically Khârn + Mephiston equals a not so great anymore Mephiston!

[Brother Nathan]

i uld disagree on that as mepheson isnt using his powers on Khârn but on himself. therefore kharns rule hasno effect except against his force weapon. but eve then i cant really see Khârn winning, ya he hits on 2s but he has to wound on a 4+ at best, more likely a 5+. mephy hits on a 3+ and wounds on a 2+. Khârn has a 5+ inv... but if meph uses sanguine sword if Khârn fails a single save he dead... and mephy is usually gonna hit first...

[Brother Nihm]

Khârn is immune to the effects of psychic powers, but in the case of Meph Vs Khârn, he isn't affected by any - Meph is.

 

9.5 times out of 10 Khârn will bite the dust.

[Slayer le Boucher]

There's a thing i don't get...Khârn who is famous for reviving from the Death after the Siege of Terra as only 3 wounds and lost the Eternal Warrior rule from the V4 Chaos dex.

 

Mephiston as pretty much the same fluff as Khârn(got revived after his delirium from the Black Rage),and the word remove 5 wounds?!!!!

 

Whats wrong with the devs?,even a Nurgle Deamon prince hasn' more then 3 wounds...

 

Also Khârn as a base Strength of 5 not 4 so he wounds him on 3+,and if charging 2+,Mephiston strikes first with his 7Init(wich is totally ridiculous,...he is even faster then an Eldar?...gimme a break) its true but he still needs 3+ to hit,unluck can happen very often,plus!!,Mephiston has no invulnerable save,wich Khârn have,its a 5+ and its easely missed but,Mephiston has only 4 attacks,5while charging,while Khârn's have base 5 and 6 when charging.

 

Khârn has more chances to deal massive damages in one CC turn then Mephiston,but yeah if the BA player succesfully launch Blood Sword power then the 10 Strength might insta kill Khârn if he miss only one invul save,but then again its a Psychic power and like any true Blood God follower i don't trust those...an Peril from the Warp is so easely happened...

 

I say its circumstancial more then anything,is not a given Win/Lose %.

 

Edit by Insane Psychopath - Watch the wording there, this is a family friendly fourm

[lord gunthar]

I thought Khârn didnt stop powers, he just ignored any and all the effects.

 

Eg : Farseer casts fortune on a avatar and doom on Khârn, avatar charges kharne, then neither do anything.

[GhostHand]

Nathan and Nihm have the right of it - Khârn is pretty much going to bite it against Mephiston. It's called codex creep though - Im sure in the next Chaos Codex we will see these guys return to some of their former glory!

[Zealot Of Chaos]

I thought Khârn didnt stop powers, he just ignored any and all the effects.

 

Eg : Farseer casts fortune on a avatar and doom on Khârn, avatar charges kharne, then neither do anything.

 

If the psychic power is a direct power against Khârn (i.e. psyker takes a psychic test and an enemy unit is affected) he ignores the power (i.e. doombolt wouldn't affect him)

If the psychic power is an indirect power against Khârn (i.e. psyker takes a psychic test and he benefits from it by increased speed, strength, attacks, etc) then Khârn can't do anything about it (i.e. Warptime would still work)

[BDS]

Thanks for the answers thus far.

 

I don't agree completely with the psychic power that affects Mephiston will then affect Khârn. Khârn is the recipient of the effects of the psychic power; psychic powers don't affect Khârn.....seems to me any "plus" could be rolled for and passed and then have no effect on Khârn...

 

So, basically Mephiston uses his base statline vs Khârn.

 

BDS

[Brother Nihm]

Blessing of the Blood God: Khârn is immune to the effects of psychic powers, and force weapons count as normal power weapons against him.

 

The Sanguine Sword (power):

The librarian's close combat attacks are made at strength 10.

 

Unleash Rage (power):

The Librarian and his unit have the Preferred Enemy special rule until the end of next turn.

 

Nowhere does it mention the enemy/target being affected.

None of the powers are shooting or area of effect attacks.

 

Ergo,

Khârn is not affected by any psychic powers in the above example, Mephiston is, his stats are boosted.

Notice that both instances of Blessing of the Blood God in the FAQ deal with powers that include or is directed at Khârn.

[GhostHand]

Nice summary Nihm

[Brother Aiwass]

But S10 is an effect of a psychic power, right? and my codex says

and force weapons count as normal power weapons against him.

[Leonaides]

S10 is an effect on Meph of a Psychic power... S10 hit on Khârn is an effect of being hit by a model who happens to be S10.

[Frosty the Pyro]

Nihm is correct, both the sword and rage boost mepheston, and therefor both work. The only thing thing mephestion cant do against karn is use the force weapons instant death ability.

 

 

To slayer le bouche, on the fluff side, Karn was brought back from the dead by the dark gods (and as such is only just as strong as when he died). Meph however pulled himself out of the black rage through shere willpower, and that unlocked insain amounts of psychic power, puting him as likely the strongest sigle psyker 40k (and screw Tigurius I am still waiting for him to turn out as a tyranid thrall). And while I agree that the S6 T6 is odd (not that carn will wound of 5+, 4+ on the charge), his initive does make sense (pychic precognition and all that). I still prefer the 4e super psycker version of the 5e why is mepheston a monsterous creature version.

[Brother Aiwass]

Hum, but S10 is an effect. C:CSM (spanish version) don't say nothing about who is supposed to be affected by. "Khârn is inmune at the effects of the psychic powers, also force weapons count as normal weapons against him". Literally. Neither codex nor FAQ says nothing about count as power weapons, just normal weapons.

[Chengar Qordath]

Hum, but S10 is an effect. C:CSM (spanish version) don't say nothing about who is supposed to be affected by. "Khârn is inmune at the effects of the psychic powers, also force weapons count as normal weapons against him". Literally. Neither codex nor FAQ says nothing about count as power weapons, just normal weapons.

Then there's a translation error in the Spanish Codex; not the first time a foreign language Codex/FAQ was very different from the original English.

 

The original English codex states "Force weapons count as normal power weapons against him."

[LPetersson]

Hum, but S10 is an effect. C:CSM (spanish version) don't say nothing about who is supposed to be affected by. "Khârn is inmune at the effects of the psychic powers, also force weapons count as normal weapons against him". Literally. Neither codex nor FAQ says nothing about count as power weapons, just normal weapons.

 

If it's any consolation, 3rd edition SW codex had similar inconsistencies in the Spanish version VS the English version...

In the English version it says 'normal power weapons'....

[Kapitalist-Pig]

Not to mention Mephistons specail rule, Transfixing Gaze. Which allows him to reroll to hits and wounds. Just thought I would throw that out there.