Wolf Guard and Long Fang load out discussion

[fandon]

I was wondering how people like to run their wolf guard? just as sergeants or as elite individual squads? What weapon combination with terminator squads? What other than 5x ML LF with leader have people tried?

 

I'm new to wolves and marines in general and am trying to find some good fun combinations for my list to back up some grey hunters and blood claws around 2000 points.

[Macharim]

I generally run them as sergeants or as a dedicated assault squad in TDA.

 

As for LF I've never tried 5xMM and I believe the standard loadout is either 5xML or 3xML and 2xLC.

[Grey Mage]

I dont use MMs on my LFs- seems like an absolute waste of their skills.

 

I run 2x ML, 2x LC- 145pts. Good all around firepower, always useful.

 

As for WG I dont run them as much as I did in the old codex, when I do its usually a small squad, often in a razorback to act as a cleaning/troubleshooting unit along with a Rune Priest.

[fandon]

meant ML haha whoops will fix original post

[tallicafan]

I usually only use Wolf Guard as pack leaders. If I did field them as a unit, it would be either power armor with Ragnar or in terminator packs.

 

Regarding the Long Fangs, I use the full 6 fielded as 2x heavy bolter, 2x plasma cannon (or missle launcher) and 1x lascannon. For combat patrol, I use 3x heavy bolter and 2x missle launcher. They've been working well for me :)

[Wysten]

Space Wolf Guard are flexable in how they can be tooled, but limited in the way they are wielded. Troop leaders and the occational Elite units are formed, main thing is they are a tad overshadowed as a unit by Thunder Wolves, so they are mainly leaders or a fantastic Termie Bodyguard in landraider/drop pod. I can't wait to make them look suitably heroic! Though sometimes the poor guys end up minding the long fangs. XD

 

Long Fangs are mostly equip with missles and the odd lazcannon. Pretty much allows them to shoot at anything just as effectively without being overally specialised and cheap. Multmeltas are something I would rather see on a tank then infantry due to it's short range. Heavy Bolters have more appealing platforms and are really infantry specialised (Landspeeder Tornados) Plasma Cannons are costly though effective against heavily armoured infantry and light armour and Lazcannons are great, but really expensive and are largely useless against infantry.

 

So missles are generally the best, though a couple of Plasma/lazcannons could definately make the difference, easpically when your spilting fire.

[Kassill]

If you're wanting some really, really good fire support, look no further than the 6 man Long Fang pack with 5x ML's and the WG with Cyclone attached. This unit dishes out really good firepower, and will definitely be a game changer if used correctly. :o

[Valerian]

I've got a pack of 10 Wolf Guard built with half in Power Armour and half in Terminator Armour.

 

The five in Power Armour include 2 with no upgrades, just Bolter and Chainsword, 2 with Combi-melta and Thunder hammer, and 1 with a Combi-melta and Power Fist. The three with the upgrades would usually be assigned as Pack Leaders for Grey Hunter and/or Wolf Scout packs; the two plain ones would be assigned as Pack Leaders for the two Long Fangs packs (a cheaper way to absorb the first wound and save a heavy weapon).

 

The five in TDA consist of 1 with Heavy Flamer and Chain Fist, 1 with Combi-plasma and Power Weapon, 1 with Combi-plasma and Wolf Claw, 1 with Storm Shield and Wolf Claw, and 1 with Storm Bolter, Chain Fist, and a Cyclone Missile Launcher. These would normally work together in a pack and deploy via Drop Pod or Land Raider. I can kick out the Cyclone model and assign him to lead rear guard Grey Hunters, if I want to make room in the transport for Ragnar, or another IC.

 

I find the 5x Missile Launcher Long Fangs setup to be too "cookie cutter" for my Space Wolves, so I've got a pack with a Lascannon, 2 Plasma Cannon, and 2 Heavy Bolters, while my other pack has a Lascannon, a Missile Launcher, 2 Plasma Cannon, and one Heavy Bolter. They've been outstanding so far, and threaten vehicles, heavy infantry, and light infantry with equal gusto.

 

Valerian

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Well this is theoryhammer, but hopefully it is of some worth ^_^ :

 

Something that has irked me about Fangs is that as soon as someone dies, they are important, be that a HW or Squad leader.

A naked WG gives you one ablative dude.

As we all know, the special/power/heavy weapons guys in any squad do a good amount of the killing.

Anything to keep those important guys alive is a good thing, imo.

 

In my BT army, I run a 5 man Las cannon + Flamer squad, and the other 3 have bolt pistols. Why a flamer? Neither the Pg or Mg actually contributes well to what the LC is doing.

The flamer has the potential to kill much [though on average it will kill a few] and is an assault weapon. Perfect for when this little squad is threatened by adventurous baddies.

If you arm the Squad leader with flamer and the WG with combi-flamer, those two templates can do a solid amount of damage.

If the enemy is quite close, firing frag missiles at them might not be terribly accurate [by contrast, if you fire them at baddies a long way away, at least you have a chance to deviate onto nearby baddy squads]

2 flames, definitely getting the charge bonus [instead of the 5/6 chance of counter attack] and denying them the chance to volley and charge you, could be a good thing.

If you find your foe is managing to get close to your Fangs, perhaps this will help to deal with them quickly.

 

Having a WG with Terminator armour, even without the CML, allows you to save ML and Rokkits on a 2+. Pretty good considering a regular Fang is destroyed.

If you save just one ap3 shot [or indeed roll a 2 on your Terminator armour save for any saving throw] you have saved a 25 pt Fang for the cost of a Grey Hunter.

That is a good return imo. <_<

 

+++

 

A WG with Combi-melta and Powerfist is tremendous value. 43 pts.

A Codex Sergeant armed likewise costs 61 pts. Ouch!

Ld 8 passes counter attack 26/36 or 72.2%

Ld 9 passes counter attack 30/36 or 83.3%

that extra 11.1% is a big plus, and when you think that could also be an extra Powerfist attack, it is even better ;)

 

Bringing a Combi-melta and Powerfist to a Scout squad increases their slightly light-on AT ability ~ though you could by melta-bombs for 8 scouts for that cost.

 

+++

 

Wound Allocation is a strong point for a WG Pack and will help prevent armour ignoring hits be loaded up onto "Lucky".

 

Tactical Terminators are actually very exposed in mêlée due to striking at i1. Having i4 power weapons will help thin incoming attacks, and protect your i1 guys.

 

Here are some interesting numbers on fighting MEq, for those who like that kind of thing :huh: :

 

Power Weapon = s4 i4 3/6 to hit 3/6 to wound = 9/36 or 25%

Power Fist = s8 i1 3/6 to hit 5/6 to wound = 15/36 or 41.67%

Wolf Claw = s4 i4 3/4 to hit 3/6 to wound = 9/24 or 37.5 %

Frost Blade = s5 i4 3/6 to hit 2/3 to wound = 6/18 or 33%

 

A Wolf Claw is very killy for its points and strike at i4. Nice!

[fandon]

thanks for all the help guys! Really useful.

 

When making TDA squads should I try to make each man different so wounds can be allocated how I want them to be? I'd love more suggestions on how to equip and use Terminators and whether people like drop pods or land raiders

 

So I guess a follow up question after a few people have made some suggestions would be are thunderwolf cavalry a good addition to an army instead of a wolf guard squad?

 

 

.

[Skarvald the Troll-faced]

Personally I think that Wolf Guards should play the role of a sergeant in the army. A Wolf Guard in power armor fits in Rhinos and not only does he make our Counter Attack special rule better by giving our units +1L but he also lessens the drawback of having that special rule (having less Leadership in general)

I usually run 3 squads of Grey Hunters - 9 or 8 man strong, depending if I want to add a Rune Priest with them. Add a Wolf Guard with a combi-melta and a power fist and the squad just got tougher than nails. Depending on how you run your squads that's between 3-5 S8 attacks on the charge OR if you get charged and pass a leadership check.

I also run Arjac Rockfist if I run a Land Raider OR I run a dude in Terminator Armor with a combi-melta and a chain fist. If it's not a KP mission I have him running by himself and he always makes his points even if he doesn't kill anything.

The fifth Wolf Guard has Terminator Armor and a Cyclone Missile Launcher - I run him with my 5 Missile Launcher + Leader pack. Why? Well, because I get 7 rockets a turn, that's why.

[Kassill]

The fifth Wolf Guard has Terminator Armor and a Cyclone Missile Launcher - I run him with my 5 Missile Launcher + Leader pack. Why? Well, because I get 7 rockets a turn, that's why.

 

Exactly. This and my Dual Plasma Gun, PF GH's are about the standard for my army now.

[Skarvald the Troll-faced]

I never really tried the power of Plasma. I am kind of new to the whole Space Wolf (and MEQ) thing. See, Plasma Guns never posed a thread to my Orkz.. But I suppose they are the thing for killing 3+ and even 2+ units en masse? I guess I just love my melta guns too much. No chance for blowing up on me. XD

[SJumppanen]

Some have suggested to have Razorback with TLLC for Long Fangs. With it you can't carry a squad with WG terminator, but even so it can move and shoot a bit.

[Wysten]

Plasmaguns are awesome, but then their potencial is somewhat lessened if they field massed weak armour. Orcs and Imperial Guard are the main guys for this and typically, bolters can do a pretty fine job for what they cost. Though that being said, in infantry they will be equiped practically with meltas and a fist, in elite groups, they will be likely to be packing all sorts of deadily weapons, Plasma is brillent against the heavily armoured foes that they are likely to face. If they can make another elite unit flee at a single terrifying silo of special weapons fire alone, or ripped a few holes before they charge in, they have already earned quite a saga on that battle field.

[Grey Mage]

Nah, bolters can glance the lowest, and only the lowest armor in the game.

 

Plasmaguns can damage anything less armored then a landraider.

[fandon]

Just wanted to say thanks for all the help guys I'll be sure to post a couple variants on some lists in the army list section in the next few days.

[muadib02]

2 Plasma Cannons and 3 Heavy Bolters in a long fang squad chews up infantry and can hurt light armour. Toss in a Terminator with an assault cannon for more fun when the enemy gets up close.

[CowCommander]

My wolf guard are usually 3 strong and in a pod and all have combi meltas for a nice cheap suicide melta unit.

[Grey Mage]

No offense CC- but I hate that idea

 

I dont like it when I see chaos termicide squads, and the idea of putting my WG in that position just seems wrong to me.

 

But hey, your mileage may vary.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

No offense CC- but I hate that idea

I dont like it when I see chaos termicide squads, and the idea of putting my WG in that position just seems wrong to me.

But hey, your mileage may vary.

 

That is so endearing ~ my little friend Witch has a soft heart :tu:

;)

 

+++

 

Chaos pays 105 for a unit of combi-meltas.

 

Wolves are paying 149 with the Pod. Though DP Assault drives me bonkers, having alpha-strike potential on melta-guns can be a very good thing.

 

Please consider the MM HF Speeder. 70 pts or all but the same for two, you get the superior MM and so do not have to land super close to make it happen.

The HF is a very good weapon, complementing the mono focus of the MM. It also helps keep your Speeder being useful and not being destroyed ;)

Plus you wont be stooged if you have to go first and he has everything in reserve....

 

You could always take the WG+Pod and 2 Speeders ;)

[Grey Mage]

Why in the god emperors name would you take your hardened veterans in the best equipment available to your forces and drop them down on a mission expecting them to die. The life of an adeptus astartes is not so cheap. If you want to take out a single tank, call in an air strike or have your long fangs light it up.

 

It makes no sense in world, and out of world it seems like a bad tradeoff- your points may or may not be more than the item your killing, your certainly likely to give up two kill points, and theres no gaurantee you wont scatter beyond all reason and simply lose the unit to no effect. Sure, nothings gauranteed in this game, but why would you risk your elites choice by making it fragile, hyper-focused, and suicidal.

 

Now, 5 WG in TDA with 3 C-Ms and a pair of storm shields, perhaps a cyclone missile launcher... sure, but that units expecting to not only survive, but conquer.

[Wolfun]

I would like to have 5 guard, with one having a Cyclone ML to go with the LF.

Whilst I now have a 5ML set up for them, I found 3 ML, 2 HB quite good on Nids and Orkz.

[CowCommander]

Why in the god emperors name would you take your hardened veterans in the best equipment available to your forces and drop them down on a mission expecting them to die. The life of an adeptus astartes is not so cheap. If you want to take out a single tank, call in an air strike or have your long fangs light it up.

 

It makes no sense in world, and out of world it seems like a bad tradeoff- your points may or may not be more than the item your killing, your certainly likely to give up two kill points, and theres no gaurantee you wont scatter beyond all reason and simply lose the unit to no effect. Sure, nothings gauranteed in this game, but why would you risk your elites choice by making it fragile, hyper-focused, and suicidal.

 

Now, 5 WG in TDA with 3 C-Ms and a pair of storm shields, perhaps a cyclone missile launcher... sure, but that units expecting to not only survive, but conquer.

 

because for 104 points I can drop in and take out a 250+land raider the drop pod also blocks movement, and hey if they want to fire on my drop and guard ill happily let them spend the fire on them instead of my main force. For the life of three brothers many could be saved. Also 3 meltas lighting up a MC can still be very useful, and yet to see the day missile launchers can reliably kill a land raider.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

I run 5 LF with ML + the leader in my squads, occasionally I will sub in either a single Las or a single heavy bolter. Havent tried the WG/TDA/ Cyclone yet, but I'm interested!!

 

I run a 5 (4 if using Grimnar) man WG in TDA unit as a close combat/tank killing unit in a pod. Equipped out with multi melta/power sword, multi melta/chainfist, multi melta/thunder hammer, multi melta/wolf claw, and wolf claw X2.

 

Also, when running Grimnar I like to run a 7 to 9 man power armor WG unit consisting or a combi melta, powerfist, thunder hammer, and frost blade as a scoring unit to come in late game in either a pod or on foot.

 

And to echo whats been said already, Space Wolves are a highly customizable army that allow you to outfit your soldiers however you want to (for the most part). Whether it's for a hard list, or a friendly week end game over a few (...yeah right!!) beers, the wolves of Fenris can dish out what ever you want them too!!

 

-R_P_R