RazorBack lists

[BlackSpike]

I've been reading a bit about "razorwire" lists, basically, lots of razorbacks full of troopers.

I'm considering a list based around 4 Razors full of assault troops, with a couple of Sang. Priests , backed up by 3 Baal Preds (2 FlameStorm,/Hvy Flamer, 1 AC/HB), but I'm looking for advice on details of how to build it.

I don't have the models yet (Apart from a big bunch of AoBR Marines, which my foes are happy for me to paint red and call Assault Troops), so I don't want to drop nearly £200 and hours of modelling/painting on the 'wrong' stuff!

 

we generally play 1500 pts, and my base list of 2 Priests, 4 razor squads and 3 preds is about 1300 pts.

 

What is Common Wisdom on how to build such a list?

What HQ works? Is there a "must take" or a "stupid choice"?

I'm thinking Assault Cannon for the Razors, maybe one lascannon?

Flamers in the Assault squads and a Power Sword for the sarg?

Am I missing something obvious?

 

Is there a good thread I can look at?

 

Thanks in advance

[SamaNagol]

Personally I find a naked Librarian with shield works well and compliments the build. AV 11 is still fragile. Shield also means you can use an offensive power in your own turn, meaning you can effectively use 2 powers per 'game' turn without paying for the Epistolary upgrade.

 

Statistically TL Assault Cannon have a higher probability of penetrating all armour when compared to TL Lascannon. however if you face Necrons or Eldar for example who can negate penetration bonuses (such as Rending) then you can find it incredibly difficult to get through their armour. However in 1500pts it is important that you are able to squeeze every last drop of utility out of your points, so I always go for Assault Cannon.

 

Which type of Predators are you taking? This can also be very relevant as if you are using Baals with ACs then you can afford to run LCs on your Razorbacks. Or are you taking Autocannon Preds with Lascannon Sponsons? Have you considered trying Vindicators? Again, they are useful for breaking armour, but their large blast means they can also take down infantry en masse.

 

I also take Corbulo instead of 2 Priests. In CC against mundane attacks he is effectively immortal with 3+/2+FNP and 2W. And his base I5 and S5 Rending sword makes him like a mini Seth when attacking. His re-roll bonus is also worth 50pts on its own. He's great value.

 

Your Predators will provide a nice selection of targets that will distract fire away from your Troops at first. Personally I run 3 RAS troops choices, but also a 4th Razorback with 5 DC inside with a Fist and PW. Again, this is a HUGE target but also a very credible shock unit. In an RB with TL Hvy Flamer they get to where they need to go moving 18" under Smoke and get out on the charge next turn. It is something that CANNOT be ignored.

 

The RB build is pretty good.

[BrotherMoses]

The first thought that comes into my head is to fill the list full of razorbacks, troops, and independent characters. It would be cool if each rb had an independant character inside to support their squad.

[Firedrake28]

Check this out. I use it as something of a Bible (though I suppose that's a bit too strong a word) of how to build a Blood Angel Razorback list.

[SamaNagol]

Oh yeh. this isn't entirely necessary, but I put a Librarian with Fear Of The Darkness and Shield in a Rhino. He does wonderfully against most things, but he is INVALUABLE against Space Wolves players with Thunderwolves

[Morticon]

The razorback lists are quite prevalent at the moment, but are definitely your typical rock-paper-scissors kind of build.

 

Their biggest flaw is that when your AV11 vehicles start going down, you've got really little in terms of hard core support as 5man teams tend to go down quite easily.

[BlackSpike]

Thanks for the tips.

 

I'm not sure whether to use the Preds or razors for anti-tank - probably Preds, leaving the razors to scoot around as needed.

I'm also going to need some way of taking down MCs, as my 'nid foe tends to field a lot of them :blink:

[SnorriSnorrison]

Razorbacks have improved, but keep in mind that they´re Razorbacks still. AV11 is fragile, and missile launcher/lascannon Devs or Longfangs won´t need long to turn them into wrecks.

Therefore, it might be better to have one or two squads with Razorbacks(Tacticals, to be honest. They profit most from the "Rhino rush"), backed up by two squads of Assault Marines, Sanguinary Guard or Death Company, using the vehicles as cover and to block LOS(essential for the DC). With that build, you have versatility and are able to choose the fights you want.

 

 

1. Rush in with the Tacs, disembark and bolter your enemy down.

2. Assault with your specialist units.

3. Win! :P

 

Snorri

[Kunanaki]

I have to agree with a lot of what is being said. Adding in my own two bits.

 

Assault Cannon Razorbacks are amazing for placing down wounds, and with the 12" move, you've got options.

 

You must have something with flamers in your army. I take usually about 4 heavy flamers on various things, because if not, you'll be choking on those annoying little buggers in cover.

 

A librarian with shield is a must, it protects the card board sides of your razorbacks with reliability.

 

Having a Sanguinary Priest in a Razorback allows you to move him where he's needed, and give your troops a FNP + Furious Charge Bubble.

 

Always have at least 5 - 12 vehicles in your list. If not, the Transports will be focused fired down. The flip side to this is using Assault Pack Marines, hiding them behind your wall of Razorbacks.

 

Lastly, always remember......Plan for the worst, Play your best, and always walk away from the table with a smile.

[SamaNagol]

Long fangs and Devs get on FAMOUSLY with Flamer Baals.

[lorider2]

Its good. But always remember the weaknesses of such a list. With rhinos you can focus more on moving forward and you can shoot your special weapons while inside. They tend to bunch up, often getting the way of each other, especially when stunned or wrecked. 90 point AV11 vehicles have a serious weakness when the opponent gets turn 1. One full salvo from a manticore can wreck your entire lines. The biggest problem is . . . you really need to roll 6 to open vehicles. Be it ass cans or HBs in the rear - often only the 6 will pen. When you get it - great. When you don't, you just have to hope the next vehicle will!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I haven't had any problems tackling razor spam with my jump armies... Deepstrike in close formation, douse with meltas then charge the next turn. The five man squads offer no resistance whatsoever.

 

0b :)

[SamaNagol]

PLaying against people with a legitimate DS alpha strike threat, any mech general with a brain will offer you no more than 2 viable targets at a time. And with the ability to move 12 and fire still, your nicely bunched assault marines will be dead by turn 2

[Firedrake28]

PLaying against people with a legitimate DS alpha strike threat, any mech general with a brain will offer you no more than 2 viable targets at a time. And with the ability to move 12 and fire still, your nicely bunched assault marines will be dead by turn 2

 

^ This. A Descent of Angels heavy list should not be beating a Razorspam one with such ease. At least not time after time.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Why not? If you start in reserve then you will get piece mealed. Razorbacks cannot output enough firepower to shred troops. DoA with heavy melta is the bane of razorspam.

 

0b :lol:

[Jakobus]

The biggest issue I see with Razorspam is how many KPs you'll be fielding

[SamaNagol]

If you start in reserve, I start my entire army on the table. If you DS and shoot, that means you don't run. That means you remain in a concentric circle. Have you seen what Baal Predators or Vindicators do to 10 Marines all in b2b contact? It's not pretty.

 

If you are dropping 5 man suicide squads down with a Meltagun and an Inferno pistol serg, then it is unlikely that the inferno will be in range, possible but unlikely. That squad DEFINITELY wont survive the next turn and will cost a lot more than my 70pt Assault Cannon Razorback you just blew up.

 

And lastly, and more importantly, in my 1500pt list I have WAY more threatening targets in my mech list than the simple Assault cannon Razorbacks.

 

It is a very viable build against lots of armies, other than Tau and Necrons who are both challenging for various reasons, although not unbeatable. It also fairs very well against IG Mech Vets and Space Wolves due to the great anti armour firepower my list can put out whilst staying incredibly mobile. It practically negates Nids and Daemons for 2 turns before they start immobilising vehicles. It is a very viable build.

 

It really taxes your generalship and decision making, and I enjoy playing it as I have moved on to flesh Tearers from my Water style Grey Knights army.

[Zid]

Razorspam lists are boring... nuff said.

 

As others said, they fare poorly against any list that packs tons of heavy weapons. The las/plas build seems to be gaining popularity over the AC build of late. I think because its more gun-line than AC's which are hella aggressive.

 

Either way, you have to play smart. Unlike 90% of space wolve lists you cannot just place your models on the board and expect to win!