Chapter's Due review

[minigun762]

So I just finished up the book and wanted to discuss a few things. Everything will be marked as spoilers so nothing gets ruined.

EDIT: Spoiler tag doesn't seem to be working so I'll give it a duct tape fix for the second.

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) I couldn't help but feel that the Ultramarines (almost all of them) were protected by "plot armor" whereas other Marines, especially the renegades, were just bullet sponges.

 

2) Speaking of renegades, I'm REALLY glad that our Berserkers don't perform nearly as bad as the ones in the book. They felt more like assault troops with Feel No Pain then trained killers.

 

3) Maybe I missed the section where it explained it, but were there only a dozen or so actual Iron Warriors in that warband? Everyone was either a renegade, human or xeno warrior.

 

4) I'm not really liking how Honsou is coming across. Its gone from the underdog in "Storm of Iron" to someone so full of himself that it borders on naivete and now ends up as a glorified adrenaline junkie.

 

5) A cool thing was definitely the Legion of the Damned making an appearance. Felt a little fanboyish but I still enjoyed it.

 

6) I enjoyed the whole "Daemon Prince was a Word Bearer Dark Apostle" bit. Made the battle seem a little more personal and epic and I'm a sucker for any reference back to the Horus Heresy.

 

7) I'm torn on how I feel about the Raven Guard being the "ninja" chapter. Hiding in plain sight or leaping over entire squads was cool but might have been a bit too much.

 

 

Anyway, what do you think? Overall its not bad but no Storm of Iron, which is my standard for a Chaos book.

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

Chapters due was the only book I enjoyed reading in the series after Courage and Honour. +1 Ultramarines

[Kizzdougs]

Chapters Due was also my favourite Ultra book so far (i'm reading BR and haven't read courage and honour).

I felt that the dominance of xenos and renegades in the forces of chaos made sence. In the Honsu short story it makes it clear that he only has a small force of IW. He wins most of his warriors and ships from huron.

 

I loved the raven Guard. We need more on these guys.

 

I don't usually mind a bit of plot armour but when the RG were nearly all killed in the same action that failed to kill a single ultra, i was a bit miffed.

[Captain Idaho]

I did feel that the renegades were pretty amateur, but I noticed it was not the first founding Space Marines (Iron Warriors and Ultramarines) who were useless, which I thought was because the Astartes from subsequent foundings were "inferior". This is reinforced in the novel itself when Pansanius remarks upon it ("copies of copies").

 

This is also supported in the 3.5 Codex Chaos Space Marines when a Black Legion Champion remarks on the inferior Astartes of the present day Imperium in a short story at the front of the book.

 

So it wasn't just plot armour ^_^

 

 

Yeah I agree that there were limited Iron Warriors in the novel, but that makes sense considering the numbers Honsou would have in his command. Still, I agree that I would have liked to have seen more of them

 

 

I did enjoy the novel, though my gripes come from the Ultramarines side of things (how easy was it for a mere Renegade fleet to ravage Ultramar's interstellar defences?).

 

 

From a Chaos perspective I think people should be happy how much devastation was wrought. Consider that in 10,000 only a single planet had ever been destroyed and that was by and entire Hive Fleet, then Honsou arranges an assault and wipes out the populations of 2 entire planets in one go!

 

[Xeonic]

It was a mini black crusade lead by the daemon prince M'Kar the thrice born, not Honsou(who was more than slightly irritated about the whole thing).

Honsou, as explained in the Iron Warriors LE book, has only a couple hundred Iron warriors under his command, presumably the remains of his company and those of the warsmiths he bested(if you can call it that) in dead sky black sun. The rest of the forces involved were either part of Honsou's warband via conquest or hire, or picked up to follow M'kar itself(hey guyz, I is a daemon, let's go kill some spehss mehreens lol!). Not to mention the daemon host M'kar commanded.

 

I found it fairly easy to believe that a chapter's worth(guess) of assorted renegade astartes, a couple companies worth of Iron warriors, and vast quantities of daemons and traitor guard/cultists could overwhelm single planets worth of defenses(mostly local defense auxilia remember) at a time. Note that they left pretty pathetic garrison forces(see the section where a squad of 2nd company infiltrated a large camp that was so lax ultramarines could just drive a rhino right in) smattered around while the main forces moved on to push the(perhaps foolishly multi-fronted) offensive.

 

The part I thought was odd was that no ultramarines successors were called up to aid them, but it did seem like a frenzy, so perhaps there was no time.

EDIT2: Though the raven guard showed up, it was what, one squad of veteran killteam worth(vanguard vets?)?

 

EDIT: I thought the raven guard "ninjas in space" aspect was a little exaggerated, overblown, and silly. Entertaining for sure though.

[minigun762]

As for the number of Iron Warriors, I knew it wasn't alot and would have made up a minority of the warband. I guess I was taken back by just how few were mentioned. The book gave the impression that there was maybe a few dozen of them in total, or at least on planetside.

 

Captain Idaho: I forgot to mention that section about the "copies of copies of copies" and to be honest, it gave me an ironic smile thinking that it came from an Ultramarine. However I like the idea that even amongst Marines, there is a definite break between those who were legionnaries at one point and those that weren't.

 

 

As far as the damage done, I will give the bad guys credit, they really gave the entire sector a beating. I'm happy with the overall amount of killing/conquest they did. Killing off a 1/3 of a Chapter, knocking out 2 entire worlds and the better part of a fleet plus the original space station is quite the tally. And to be fair, I thought the Ultramarines did a good job as well.

I really liked the whole idea of Honsou using their knowledge of the Codex against them and forcing the Ultramarines to adapt.

 

Without derailing my own topic, I wanted to mention that I'm a fan overall of the Ultramarines, I don't understand the hate directed their way and think its unwarranted. This book does alot to estabilish their level of badassery.

 

I did enjoy the novel, though my gripes come from the Ultramarines side of things (how easy was it for a mere Renegade fleet to ravage Ultramar's interstellar defences?).

 

Well in all fairness, imagine what you could do when you have the equivalent of a traitor captain on your side. Gives you quite the edge.

 

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

Without derailing my own topic, I wanted to mention that I'm a fan overall of the Ultramarines, I don't understand the hate directed their way and think its unwarranted. This book does alot to estabilish their level of badassery.

Why thank you Minigun I'm sincerely flattered. :tu:

[Requiemnex]

i also found that the book really one sided things out frequently. For instance when a small squad of marines pretty much take on an entire encampment of renegades and at the start of the battle are commenting about being low on ammo. There are also several parts where the ultramarines are single shotting renegade astartes but they themselves proven to be invincible. Uriel quickly types /godmode 1 /noclip 1 .... Overall I really liked the book and enjoyed the fluff into the iron warriors and into ultramarines reading this series has given me a respect for them and makes me think about M.A.C. is a pretty great guy and how Sicarius is pretty much a cocky *EXPLOITATIVE* prick. Its sort of scary but if you compair Honsu to Sicarius in this book they have a lot of simaler behaviors.

 

I know in an interview Grahm expressed concerns writing about the Iron Warriors as there are so many of us fan boiz out there and he was worried about ticking off our community. In reality I think he did a great job and really hope he may write a book or two more directly involved with the chevroned killers.

[minigun762]

Sicarius is pretty much a cocky *EXPLOITATIVE* prick. Its sort of scary but if you compair Honsu to Sicarius in this book they have a lot of simaler behaviors.

 

He certainly is a bold one. Its easy to see that kind of ambition spilling over into beautiful heresy. :D

 

really hope he may write a book or two more directly involved with the chevroned killers.

I agree 100% but just like UMs aren't a fan of Uriel, I can't say I'm a fan of Honsou, at least this new version of him.

 

I'm in the Forrix was the most interesting IW character so far camp.

[Requiemnex]

I really enjoyed Forrix, Onyx, and Kroger even.. They were all great charecters well defined. The new and less than improved Honsu is a joke.. Seriously? Blindly run into a tomb without knowing why just because a daemon asked him to destroy the tomb.

 

Heroic Invulnerability is just nuts in this book. Melta shot to the chest? HE LIVES! ... Granted I suppose he does wear terminator plating on some of his armor..

[minigun762]

Heroic Invulnerability is just nuts in this book. Melta shot to the chest? HE LIVES! ... Granted I suppose he does wear terminator plating on some of his armor..

 

Well thats simple, the shooter rolled a "1" to wound. :D

[Captain Idaho]

I loved the little "copies of copies" part. Like you said, it shows the Astartes in a light that is less than favourable. Remember the discussion in Courage and Honour Ventris and Pansanius had with Tigurius about arrogance and hubris? Has Pansanius forgotten the lesseons he has learned already? Will McNeil have him fall from grace, tragically after returning from exile?

 

Nice bit of depth.

[Requiemnex]

Heroic Invulnerability is just nuts in this book. Melta shot to the chest? HE LIVES! ... Granted I suppose he does wear terminator plating on some of his armor..

 

Well thats simple, the shooter rolled a "1" to wound. :)

 

Oh good call, i always thought that he rolled a good invuln save...

 

 

.. I just re-read the end of the book for giggles..

 

I feel... The end... Sort of lackluster... Left it open for another book....