Chaos Dreadnought Rules Question

[Black and White]

Under options, it says if I choose to buy an additional close combat arm, it adds +1 attacks to the dreadnought's profile.

 

My question is this: Do I still get a +1 attack on top of the +1 to the profile, because I am wielding two DCCW? The defiler states that it's two DCCW bonus is already included, but the dreadnought entry doesn't say anything about not getting a 2x DCCW bonus on top of the +1 attacks on profile bonus.

 

Or alternatively, if I replace the original DCCW with a missile launcher, do I still retain the +1 attack to profile bonus? The missile launcher option states I only suffer a loss to attacks if I have no DCCW left, and does not impose a -1 attack penalty for replacing a DCCW with it.

[Shas'o R'Vre]

I quote from the Codex here:

 

Wargear:

Dreadnought CCW inc. TL Bolter

So the +1 for having the First DCCW is included in the base attacks of 3

 

Options:

The other arm must be armed with one of the following:

...

an Additional DCCW inc TL Bolter for X pts. This will add +1 to the number of Attacks on the profile above

So buying an Additional CCW grants you 3 attacks +1 for the extra DCCW leaving you with 4 attacks

 

One Close Combat arm (along with TL Bolter) may be replaced with a Missile Launcher for X cost. If the Dreadnought is left with no Close Combat arms, its attacks are reduced to 2, and is no longer armed with a DCCW

So having NO CCW arms means only 2 attacks base and no armour save ignoring/vehicle destroying bonus.

 

So you could buy an Extra CCW and replace one with a Missile Launcher and still retain your base attacks of 3.

[Black and White]

I quote from the Codex here:

 

Wargear:

Dreadnought CCW inc. TL Bolter

So the +1 for having the First DCCW is included in the base attacks of 3

 

Options:

The other arm must be armed with one of the following:

...

an Additional DCCW inc TL Bolter for X pts. This will add +1 to the number of Attacks on the profile above

So buying an Additional CCW grants you 3 attacks +1 for the extra DCCW leaving you with 4 attacks

 

One Close Combat arm (along with TL Bolter) may be replaced with a Missile Launcher for X cost. If the Dreadnought is left with no Close Combat arms, its attacks are reduced to 2, and is no longer armed with a DCCW

So having NO CCW arms means only 2 attacks base and no armour save ignoring/vehicle destroying bonus.

 

So you could buy an Extra CCW and replace one with a Missile Launcher and still retain your base attacks of 3.

 

My question was more like: The codex states I get +1 attacks on profile (it does not say +1 attack for wielding 2 ccw). I then replace the original DCCW (not the purchased one that grants +1 A on profile). The missile launcher entry does not state that I lose an attack for replacing a DCCW with it. So by RAW, I get 4 attacks on profile with +X point DCCW and free missile launcher right?

 

Likewise, if I bought 2x DCCW, I get +1 on the profile (again, not +1 for dual wielding ccw), then by the rules in the BRB I would get +1 for having 2 DCCW as well, granting a total of 5 attacks. Making the +1 attack on profile a 'free' extra attack.

 

The rulebook says you get a bonus attack for having 2 DCCW, not an 'extra attack on profile', so it appears stacking the two dosen't conflict by RAW.

 

I was wondering if anyone else read it this way. It isn't in the FAQ.

 

On another note, if I buy my dread a missile launcher (and run it along with another similar dread), and roll a fire frenzy, If the other dread is the nearest unit, I can choose to fire frags with the launcher and negate any chance of damaging by own unit, right?

 

I'm trying really hard find a way to get the dread to not suck so much, so I can take elites other than termicide.

[Lady_Canoness]

I'm not seeing the source of confusion here. A dread with a single close combat arm gets 3 attacks - 2 arms gets 4 attacks - no arms gets 2 attacks. Simple really. RAW and whatever else be damned, it is very clear when I read it.

 

As for using dreads effectively, some would argue it can't be done. I on the other hand, think it can be done if you take more than one and run them together with weapons that are not deadly to each other: missile lauchers with frag (as you mentioned), Plasma Cannons, HBs... If one decides to shoot, you have the other stay close and absorb the shot(s)in its side armour instead of having the dread fire on an enemy unit. Keeping them paired up means that you can focus fire with them, and hit the same unit in close combat.

Unfortunately the effectiveness of our dreads comes down to chance, but playing them like this maximizes their effectiveness given average rolls. Above average rolls makes pairs or trios of Dreadnoughts utterly beastly.

[Wicked Fetus]

I'm not seeing the source of confusion here. A dread with a single close combat arm gets 3 attacks - 2 arms gets 4 attacks - no arms gets 2 attacks. Simple really. RAW and whatever else be damned, it is very clear when I read it.

 

I agree with Canoness here. They can be a great distraction and draw a lot of fire away from your more important forces in your army. Equipping them out with two DCCW and a heavy flamer also ensures they don't hurt any of your own troops as long as they are out of the heavy flamer template. They can be a real mess in groups for your opponent like Canoness pointed out because sooner or later, they are going to have to focus on them hitting their line while the rest of your army engages.

[Shas'o R'Vre]

Likewise, if I bought 2x DCCW, I get +1 on the profile (again, not +1 for dual wielding ccw), then by the rules in the BRB I would get +1 for having 2 DCCW as well, granting a total of 5 attacks. Making the +1 attack on profile a 'free' extra attack.

DCCWs don't stack attacks for having two weapons because it's not mentioned under the section for CCW pairings in the Assault rules.

 

In the DCCW Entry on page 73 of the BRB, It says:

 

Walkers are often armed...

 

...If a walker is armed with two or more close combat weapons, it gains one bonus attack for each additional weapon over the first...

Which is what it says in the codex. Ok, so you could read what is written as "+1 attack for the extra DCCW, and +1 for having 2", but that isn't what is meant.

[Black and White]

Likewise, if I bought 2x DCCW, I get +1 on the profile (again, not +1 for dual wielding ccw), then by the rules in the BRB I would get +1 for having 2 DCCW as well, granting a total of 5 attacks. Making the +1 attack on profile a 'free' extra attack.

DCCWs don't stack attacks for having two weapons because it's not mentioned under the section for CCW pairings in the Assault rules.

 

In the DCCW Entry on page 73 of the BRB, It says:

 

Walkers are often armed...

 

...If a walker is armed with two or more close combat weapons, it gains one bonus attack for each additional weapon over the first...

Which is what it says in the codex. Ok, so you could read what is written as "+1 attack for the extra DCCW, and +1 for having 2", but that isn't what is meant.

 

You're right. Having read the rules again, it seems a reasonable reading of the rules would indicate no stacking.

[Cigar_of_Nurgle]

You have 4 Base attack with 2 DCCW and 5 on the charge.