Another "Talk Me Into BA" Post

[Terrahawk]

aside from the references towards vampirisim what is so terrible about the blood angels fluff?

 

Yeah, we have awesome fluff, including the vampiric influences (they date wayyyy back before the current vampire fad).

 

Anyone who disagrees is getting a Powerfist to the face. ;)

 

And to keep things remotely on topic, a BA Captain with Twin Lightining Claws and a Jump Pack is a very cool choice and even pretty solid game-wise.

[Khavos]

Having browsed through the codex once more, I came across a possible counts-as option that may give me what I'd want: The Sanguinor. Artificer Armor, a 3+ invuln, jump pack, and a master-crafted power sword that hits at Str 5, which is just about equal to a Thunderlord's Frost Axe. He's certainly not inexpensive, but he also comes with some decent special rules.

 

Now, the trick is to figure out a way to make that ruleset and statline something other than a vengeful vampiric ghost.

[TrentL]

I never saw him as a Vampiric anything. I saw him more as an Avenging Angel.

 

IN fact you could throw the whole blood out of the Codex and write up a sub chapter that turned away from the Blood, instead worships the Spirit of Sanguinius, and they are his Angels.

 

Instead of "red thirst" it could be "Angellic Anger" and just run with it.

[Khavos]

I never saw him as a Vampiric anything. I saw him more as an Avenging Angel.

 

IN fact you could throw the whole blood out of the Codex and write up a sub chapter that turned away from the Blood, instead worships the Spirit of Sanguinius, and they are his Angels.

 

Instead of "red thirst" it could be "Angellic Anger" and just run with it.

 

To be honest, neither the "blood" nor the "angelic" aspects of the BA really do it for me. Of what they have, the only part I'm really all that fond of is the notion that they're fighting to control the flaw that turns them into berserker-types. 'Cause berserkers are always cool.

 

If I can get a list going that I like that includes the Sanguinor, my concern becomes whether or not using him as a generic captain with counts-as rules becomes too cheesy. Perhaps there's some sort of angle to be found to make him more than an average captain, but I dunno what it'd be without a ton of Mary Sue fanwankism.

[Grey Mage]

Flesh Tearers, the real gabriel seth?

[Joasht]

I read the latest fluff and to be honest, I'm not sure why some people are saying the whole vampire-thingy has been toned down; a good portion of it is still there :/

Maybe, just maybe, if its a REALLY new person who doesn't know ANYTHING about the Blood Angels and the 5th ed codex was the only BA fluff he/she has read, then maybe. Still screams vampire to me.

 

Anyway that small rant aside, its very easy to justify him with fluff. His higher WS can be easily justified by some fluff about him being very skilled, his +1S and Glaive Encarmine can be combined into a "Master Crafted Relic Blade", his +1A to everyone in 6" can be justified by saying he's carrying some sort of Holy Relic (relics, in previous editions, were things carried by chaplains that could give +1A to people around him), the 3+ invul has been justified in the past by simply saying the dude is really though (lol 3rd ed. Cortez) or you could say he's got some sort of uber force field :/

His chosen Sergeant doesn't REALLY need to be explained because you could just say you have an extra Captain in your army,although in my chapter's own fluff (which I almost always use to count-as Blood Angels), my Sanguinor-equivalent is a mentor, sort of like Ulrik from the SW codex.

 

He's not freaking Mephiston, where any count-as Meph's fluff would inevitably have mentions of daemons/daemonweapons/ancient relics of incalculable power because his stats are so far off from the usual marine.

[Jakobus]

Mephiston use to have a rule where if there was no one else in combat with him he had to make a leadership test not to feast on the defeateds blood.

And just look at him

http://members.shaw.ca/st-shadow/pics/heroes/meph.jpg

 

This codex has pulled back on the blood drinking and is a lot more Avenging Angels of Death.

[Khavos]

I read the latest fluff and to be honest, I'm not sure why some people are saying the whole vampire-thingy has been toned down; a good portion of it is still there :/

Maybe, just maybe, if its a REALLY new person who doesn't know ANYTHING about the Blood Angels and the 5th ed codex was the only BA fluff he/she has read, then maybe. Still screams vampire to me.

 

Anyway that small rant aside, its very easy to justify him with fluff. His higher WS can be easily justified by some fluff about him being very skilled, his +1S and Glaive Encarmine can be combined into a "Master Crafted Relic Blade", his +1A to everyone in 6" can be justified by saying he's carrying some sort of Holy Relic (relics, in previous editions, were things carried by chaplains that could give +1A to people around him), the 3+ invul has been justified in the past by simply saying the dude is really though (lol 3rd ed. Cortez) or you could say he's got some sort of uber force field :/

His chosen Sergeant doesn't REALLY need to be explained because you could just say you have an extra Captain in your army,although in my chapter's own fluff (which I almost always use to count-as Blood Angels), my Sanguinor-equivalent is a mentor, sort of like Ulrik from the SW codex.

 

He's not freaking Mephiston, where any count-as Meph's fluff would inevitably have mentions of daemons/daemonweapons/ancient relics of incalculable power because his stats are so far off from the usual marine.

 

Not bad ideas.

 

The kind folks at Dakka suggested going with the Captain wearing a suit of power armor believed to have been worn by one of the first Sanguinary Guards or whoever it was Sanguinius had around him - so, much as the Sanguinor himself is believed to be the essence/spirit/whatever of one of those dudes, so is the essence/spirit/whatever of one of those dudes believed to have left some trace of itself in this armor. Or something. Justified the stat boost, maybe justifies the increased zeal of the SMs around him.

 

Thinking of even forcing myself to play by the spirit of the rule for Bjorn the Fell-handed (I don't have my SW codex on me at the moment, fairly sure it's him), which, if I remember correctly, the gist of is that if Bjorn (or in this case the counts-as Sanguinor) goes down, a squad has to get over there and 'recover' the armor.

 

Edit: Now all I have to do is come up with a geneseed mutation that does NOT make them all blond prettyboys, figure out how to both effectively build and use Stormravens, come up with a chapter name - is it just me, or does Storm Ravens sound good? - and I'm set!

[Joasht]

Mephiston use to have a rule where if there was no one else in combat with him he had to make a leadership test not to feast on the defeateds blood.

 

This codex has pulled back on the blood drinking and is a lot more Avenging Angels of Death.

Thats true, and his stats are now not *exactly* that of the Vampire Lord as it was last time, haha. But then again who knows, rules don't always reflect what something is exactly.

Mephiston will forever be a blood-sucking pseudo-vampire in my head because thats what he was when I was growing up, so as I said perhaps if that person has NEVER been exposed to 40k prior to the 5th ed codex it might not stand out as much.

 

EDIT:

Khavos - Well to be fair only the Blood Angels geneseed (to my knowledge) turns marines into pretty boys. Depends on whether you even want to use the BA as your geneseed source.

 

And uh, Storm Ravens would have sounded really good pre-BA codex, but now it just sounds like you stole the name :/

[Donkeycow]

Blood Angel captains may not be the best out there, but they can do one thing no other captain i can think of can, they can have furious charge! mix that with a lighting claw and you are re-rolling wounds at str 5 and I 6, not bad at all. Just throw a captain with an honour guard with the priest upgrade and it could be pretty interesting.

[Joasht]

Blood Angel captains may not be the best out there, but they can do one thing no other captain i can think of can, they can have furious charge! mix that with a lighting claw and you are re-rolling wounds at str 5 and I 6, not bad at all. Just throw a captain with an honour guard with the priest upgrade and it could be pretty interesting.

 

Black Templars can get Furious Charge on their Castellan (if I recall correctly thats what they call their 3W Captain). You do have to buy a Command Squad for the Castellan though, because you buy Furious Charge for his Command Squad, then his Command Squad gives it to him (its written explicitly in the BT codex that all characters attached to the Command Squad gain the squad's ability so I believe that overrides the rulebook).

[Khavos]

Khavos - Well to be fair only the Blood Angels geneseed (to my knowledge) turns marines into pretty boys. Depends on whether you even want to use the BA as your geneseed source.

 

Yup, think I do. Though I am going to handwave away the blond girly-looks thing. Geneseed mutation. Something.

 

And uh, Storm Ravens would have sounded really good pre-BA codex, but now it just sounds like you stole the name :/

 

Oh, I know. Not planning on using it, just realized how good it sounded after I'd flipped through the codex a couple times.

[Zealadin]

From memory the BA who accompanied Sanguinus on his last battle were all in Terminator armour, so I'd be more inclined to add a terminator captain as the fluff supports this a bit more and suggest it was one of the suits of terminator armour when the Emperor killed Horus, and that it still seems to hold the spirit of the original Space Marine, enhancing its wearers current abilities with age old wisdom and skill. Even the codex supports this.

 

I'm still trying to figure out how to come a BA Termi list work, but its challenging to say the least!

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

Blood Angel captains may not be the best out there, but they can do one thing no other captain i can think of can, they can have furious charge! mix that with a lighting claw and you are re-rolling wounds at str 5 and I 6, not bad at all. Just throw a captain with an honour guard with the priest upgrade and it could be pretty interesting.

 

I actually always felt that a Blade Enc is actually better on a captain than a Lightning Claw. Reroll to wound are nice, but with higher Str isn't reroll to hit better? WS differences in to-hit scale a lot worse than differences in Str vs Toughness.

 

Just how I feel about that though. May be wrong as I didn't number crunch it.

[Brother Ulkesh]

I didn't think captains had the option to take Blades Encarmine.

 

Could be wrong, of course - I don't have my codex with me...