Few squad composition connundrums

[Deschenus Maximus]

So I'm still in the process of converting my vanilla SM force to BA and a few question have arisen that I would like some opinions on:

 

-I currently have 3 tactical squads painted, and will eventualy have another 3 done (the goal being to have a full battle company eventually). My question is: what should I equip them with? I know I want at least two squads with SB + PF sarge, PG, PC, in a Rhino. Should I set all 6 up thusly? I'm having a hard time thinking of a more effective weapon combo tbh. At the same time, I'm not sure in what kind of game I would require 6 tactical squads all equipped the same way.

 

-I'm planning to have an Honour Guard for Tycho equipped with 4 x PG; should I reduce the amount of plasma to be able to play wound allocation games? Also, I was thinking of equipping one dude with a storm shield in order to try and save my squad at least a save-ignoring death; has anyone done this with any success?

 

-Although it might seem like a dumb question at first, who is actually the better CC fighter: Astorath or Sanguinor?

 

-While most of my other squads have powerfists, I was thinking of giving my devastator sergeants power weapons since I intend to combat-squad their squads a lot. Does that sound reasonable, or should I just not bother with a CC upgrade for the sarge unless it's a power fist?

 

-Is there really a point to a 4 x MG Honour guard when you can make a somewhat equivalent Assault Squad?

[Brother Nathan]

As you will likelynever us 6 tactical squads id say mix itup so youcan change out units if you want to. thats what ive done with my company, andi haventyet used any tactical squads in this ed yet... Im also not a fan of plasma.

For a squad with tycho id say youd be better with melta as he has a combi melta, and attacks like an mc so he can be good at taking on tanks. also you cant fire plasma and charge...and when you have furious charge... maby plasma pistls?

And cc weapons on dev, dosnt matter much. id say powerweapon to save points as they auta shoot whatever needs a powefist... so really is say pistol and powerweapon to save points if you really want a special. most probably wouldnt even bother though...

[Mudpuppet]

-Is there really a point to a 4 x MG Honour guard when you can make a somewhat equivalent Assault Squad?

 

By this i assume you mean a 4 x melta gun honour guard? If so what do you mean by somewhat equivalent? A 5 man assault squad can only have 1 x meltagun... and they dont get a free priest either.

 

How is tha equivalent? Unless in grasping at the wrong end of the stick.

 

Mudpuppet

[Deschenus Maximus]

As you will likelynever us 6 tactical squads id say mix itup so youcan change out units if you want to. thats what ive done with my company, andi haventyet used any tactical squads in this ed yet...

 

I was thinking maybe all with PF sarges, 2 with PG + PC, 2 with PG + ML, 2 with Fl + MM (sarge has Combi-flamer instead of SB).

 

Im also not a fan of plasma.

For a squad with tycho id say youd be better with melta as he has a combi melta, and attacks like an mc so he can be good at taking on tanks. also you cant fire plasma and charge...and when you have furious charge... maby plasma pistls?

 

The idea was to use Tycho + PG command squad mainly defensively (counter-charge + FNP for gunline) and when used offensively, put them in a Las/plas Razor and rapid-fire to death MEQ squads.

 

And cc weapons on dev, dosnt matter much. id say powerweapon to save points as they auta shoot whatever needs a powefist... so really is say pistol and powerweapon to save points if you really want a special. most probably wouldnt even bother though...

 

I've found in this ed that avoiding charges is extremely hard, so I'm pretty much putting special CC weapons on everyone. It's a bit sad, and certainly expensive, but at least my squads have a shot at doing a bit of damage on their way down.

 

By this i assume you mean a 4 x melta gun honour guard? If so what do you mean by somewhat equivalent? A 5 man assault squad can only have 1 x meltagun... and they dont get a free priest either.

 

How is tha equivalent? Unless in grasping at the wrong end of the stick.

 

A 4 x meltagun HG with JP will run you 205 pts without further upgrades. A 10-man assault squad with 2 x meltas, a sarge with infernus, with a Jp-equiped SP with infernus attached will cost 315, but is a Troop choice, and if you split the squad in 2 (putting all the meltas together and using the 5 "naked" marines to hunker down in your backfield to hold home objectives), you could think of the squad as actualy costing 225 pts.

 

Granted, it's not exactly the same (weaker on some aspects, stronger on others), but it got me questionning the cost-effectiveness of the 4 x MG HG.

[Morticon]

Lascannons, lascannons, lascannons!!!

 

That is all!

 

Well..not really. Dude, TACs are the best place for LCs. Cheap, and effective. The lascannon ALWAYS has a target. The high S and low AP means you can instant kill certain things that need to be instant killed or can guarantee a wound on certain other things.

I have 4x 10 man tac squads. 3 of them have LCs and 1 has a PC.

[Deschenus Maximus]

Lascannons, lascannons, lascannons!!!

 

That is all!

 

Well..not really. Dude, TACs are the best place for LCs. Cheap, and effective. The lascannon ALWAYS has a target. The high S and low AP means you can instant kill certain things that need to be instant killed or can guarantee a wound on certain other things.

I have 4x 10 man tac squads. 3 of them have LCs and 1 has a PC.

 

While I certainly appreciate that LCs seem like an attractive idea because they are cheap, I don't think they mesh all that well in a Tac Squad. Tacticals need to be flexible in their armament, and lascannons are very much a specialised weapon system.

[Mudpuppet]

A 4 x meltagun HG with JP will run you 205 pts without further upgrades. A 10-man assault squad with 2 x meltas, a sarge with infernus, with a Jp-equiped SP with infernus attached will cost 315, but is a Troop choice, and if you split the squad in 2 (putting all the meltas together and using the 5 "naked" marines to hunker down in your backfield to hold home objectives), you could think of the squad as actualy costing 225 pts.

 

Granted, it's not exactly the same (weaker on some aspects, stronger on others), but it got me questionning the cost-effectiveness of the 4 x MG HG.

 

Ah i see what you mean now! Yes i suppose it is quite close. But as you just pointed out the 5 assault marines plus priest costs 20 points more effectively and has 2 of the meltas with shorter range. Only plus is they are troops i suppose.

 

Mudpuppet

[Deschenus Maximus]

Only plus is they are troops i suppose.

 

That's non-negligeable imo. That can turn a loss into a tie, and a tie into a win.

 

You also have 2 spare bodies for wound absorbtion.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

My approach to army building is kind of a hold-out from previous editions but still applicable today imo.

 

Basically (imo) if you have 1 tank, you should have 4 at least (landraider/stormraven excluded) in a 1750-2000 point game. Whether that is all transports, or 1 baal, 1 vindi and 2 transports etc it doesn't matter...

 

I think Assault squads are better in Rhinos because they can shoot 2 assault weapons out of them -> moving.

 

Tactical squads (or death company) I like with Razorbacks. I'll either take a full shooty tact squad and send the razorback off empty OR combat squad a 1/2-n-1/2 and put the assault weapon and sergeant in the transport, sometimes with a Priest.

 

My tacticals usually look like this, in an otherwise primarily assault list:

 

10man, 1 plasmagun, 1 multi-melta, all bolters. Standing in cover (everyone has 24" range) nearest middle of board or on objective near middle.

Razorback with

TL

-lascannon (empty).

 

10man, 1 melta or flamer, 1 missile launcher, sergeant with power weapon/fist. Combat squad: Sergeant and assault weapon in transport, Missile launcher and 4 bodies sitting in cover far back or on far objective.

Razorback with free weapon (

HB

or

HF

) since it will move flat-out at least once.

[Deschenus Maximus]

Basically (imo) if you have 1 tank, you should have 4 at least (landraider/stormraven excluded) in a 1750-2000 point game. Whether that is all transports, or 1 baal, 1 vindi and 2 transports etc it doesn't matter...

 

I agree here. I don't personnaly ascribe to the thought that everything must be mech all the time, but if you make a commitment to have some armour, you have to commit to have sufficient armour.

 

I think Assault squads are better in Rhinos because they can shoot 2 assault weapons out of them -> moving.

 

I prefer my RAS with jump packs, as the increased mobility makes it easier to bring to bear the special weapons

 

Tactical squads (or death company) I like with Razorbacks. I'll either take a full shooty tact squad and send the razorback off empty OR combat squad a 1/2-n-1/2 and put the assault weapon and sergeant in the transport, sometimes with a Priest.

 

I don't really combat-squad too often after seeing my poor Marines get eaten too easily. Thus I favor Rhinos over Razors.

 

My tacticals usually look like this, in an otherwise primarily assault list:

 

10man, 1 plasmagun, 1 multi-melta, all bolters. Standing in cover (everyone has 24" range) nearest middle of board or on objective near middle.

Razorback with

TL

-lascannon (empty).

 

10man, 1 melta or flamer, 1 missile launcher, sergeant with power weapon/fist. Combat squad: Sergeant and assault weapon in transport, Missile launcher and 4 bodies sitting in cover far back or on far objective.

Razorback with free weapon (

HB

or

HF

) since it will move flat-out at least once.

 

Have you thought of switching around the heavy weapons in those squads? A MM makes a nice backup for a flamer squad, so you can fire at targets of opportunity. I'd also get your second squad a Rhino and keep them together to make them more resilient.

 

For the first squad's Razorback, a las/plas turret might be something to look into; you lose the reroll but gain an extra S7 shot instead that is itself twin-linked.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

I prefer my RAS with jump packs, as the increased mobility makes it easier to bring to bear the special weapons

 

Yeh actually I prefer them also, but it's pretty darn easy to shoot 2 meltas out of a rhino without losing a man.

 

 

I don't really combat-squad too often after seeing my poor Marines get eaten too easily. Thus I favor Rhinos over Razors.

 

Yeah I hear yah, that's why I always try to start them in cover. Outflanking steelers will ruin your day whether you are 10 or 5 though... and I'd rather these be my opponents target then my mobile troops (assault squads).

 

 

Have you thought of switching around the heavy weapons in those squads? A MM makes a nice backup for a flamer squad, so you can fire at targets of opportunity. I'd also get your second squad a Rhino and keep them together to make them more resilient.

 

For the first squad's Razorback, a las/plas turret might be something to look into; you lose the reroll but gain an extra S7 shot instead that is itself twin-linked.

 

Well ...I don't really see the point of having a flamer with a heavy weapon at all to be honest. The flamer is only doing good if it's moving towards an enemy and the heavy weapon is only doing good if it's standing still. Same goes for putting a heavy weapon in a rhino... you want it out and shooting all game; the typical game is 5-7 turns, why waste a few in a transport? Unless you plan to just keep the transport sitting still, which also seems like a waste of resource to me. The entire rest of our army has the anti-troop and assault angle covered quite well. ;)

 

I do love the las/plas though... I just don't have one modeled yet.