Wolf Claw Mathhammer

[Tsavong Lah]

The title says it all—when is it more efficient to reroll hits and when is it more efficient to reroll wounds on a Wolf Claw?

[SJumppanen]

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=208937

 

Scroll down for the chart that should answer to your question.

[The Thunder Wolf]

well for wolf claws it should be fairly obvious depending on which is higher the hit or to wound then its up to you but if it was the same say 3+ each i would probably re roll wounds just to make sure things die but its up to you

[Skalver]

Always reroll whichever has the lower chance of success. So if you hit on 6s and wound on 5s, reroll the hits.

 

If you want a reason:

 

Let H be the chance you pass a to hit roll (0 = always miss, 1.0 = always hit)

Let W be the chance you pass a to wound roll (0 = always fail, 1.0 = always wound)

 

Following from this we have:

 

(1.0 - H) is the chance you will fail a to hit roll

(1.0 - W) is the chance you will fail a to wound roll

 

Your chance to cause a wound with no reroll is:

 

H * W

 

If you reroll H your chance to cause a wound is:

 

H * W + (1.0 - H) * H * W

or

(2.0 - H) * H * W

 

I,e, your chance to wound is increased proportionally to the chanc e you will miss.

 

Similarly if you reroll to wound you get:

 

H * W + (1.0 - W) * H * W

or

(2.0 - W) * H * W

 

So your options are to either cause (2.0 - H) times as much damage or (2.0 - W) times as much damage. So you will want to subtract whichever chance is lower, i.e. reroll whichever is less likely to work.

[Simo429]

Just seems common sense to me

 

If you need 3's to hit and 5's to wound you reroll to wounds

If you need 4's to hit and 3' to wound you reroll to hit

[Marshal Wilhelm]

well for wolf claws it should be fairly obvious depending on which is higher the hit or to wound then its up to you but if it was the same say 3+ each i would probably re roll wounds just to make sure things die but its up to you

Welcome to the B&C The Thunder Wolf, this lot are rowdy ~ but by your name, you look like it too :P

 

+++

 

EDIT: What I have said has been shown false :sweat: . Please ignore. :P

hitting on 5s = 33%

rerolled = 55%

22% increase

 

hitting on 4s = 50%

rerolled = 75%

25% increase

 

hitting on 3s = 66%

rerolled = 88%

22% increase.

 

Whenever you re-roll from a 50% chance you are getting the biggest buff.

 

Naturally "hitting" can be replaced with "wounding".

 

Remember that to hit and to wound balance one another out ~ it doesn't matter if you get the big buff hitting or wounding.

6/6 x 1/6 = 6/36

1/6 x 6/6 = 6/36

[Skalver]

Whenever you re-roll from a 50% chance you are getting the biggest buff.

 

Untrue, Suppose you hit on 5s (33% chance) and wound on 4s (50% chance).

 

Your chance to wound with no reroll is 0.33 * 0.5 = 0.165.

 

Now if you reroll to hit your chance to hit becomes 0.5511, your chance to wound stays 0.5.

 

Your overall chance to wound is now 0.5511 * 0.5 = 0.27555

 

If you reroll to wound your chance to wound beceomes 0.75.

 

Your overall chance to wound would now be 0.33 * 0.75 = 0.25.

 

You do more damage by rerolling the hits.

 

The benefit you gain from increasing one number is proportional to the size of the other number. This is what you are failing to consider.

[Macharim]

Skalver was faster and said it a lot better. :)

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Whenever you re-roll from a 50% chance you are getting the biggest buff.

 

Untrue....

You do more damage by rerolling the hits.

 

The benefit you gain from increasing one number is proportional to the size of the other number. This is what you are failing to consider.

 

Blast! I have recently learnt about what I would call "diminishing returns" but am still patterned with my previous thinking :)

Grazie.

[Skalver]

Whenever you re-roll from a 50% chance you are getting the biggest buff.

 

Untrue....

You do more damage by rerolling the hits.

 

The benefit you gain from increasing one number is proportional to the size of the other number. This is what you are failing to consider.

 

Blast! I have recently learnt about what I would call "diminishing returns" but am still patterned with my previous thinking :)

Grazie.

 

Well I have gone through this from scratch about 5 times now, and still when I reach the end I think it sounds wrong :(.

 

The easiest way I find to think about it is this, if you imagine the amount of damage you would do with no rerolls. Now someone told you you could have a chance to double your damage but to do so you had to either do a to-hit roll and fail, or do a to-wound roll and fail. You would choose which ever was most likely to fail.

 

That is basically what the reroll does, it gives you a chance equal to your chance of failing of causing as much damage again. So obviously you want to choose the reroll that maximises on that chance of failing.

 

Also for anyone who is interested the difference is actually fairly substantial. In a 3+/4+ situation (which is, presumably far and away the most common) it is the difference between averaging 9 wounds from 18 attacks or averaging 8 wounds from 18 attacks or a 12.5% difference in damage caused.

[TrentL]

So for those who get lost in Mathhammer....

 

Re-Roll that which is a higher number requird for success.

 

Now what if they're the same? I assume ifyou need 4+ to hit and wound you always re-roll wounds.

 

Do you declare which you re-roll before you roll? (still waiting for my codex to arrive by mail)

[SJumppanen]

So for those who get lost in Mathhammer....

 

Re-Roll that which is a higher number requird for success.

 

Now what if they're the same? I assume ifyou need 4+ to hit and wound you always re-roll wounds.

 

Do you declare which you re-roll before you roll? (still waiting for my codex to arrive by mail)

 

If the numbers are the same, then roll the first one so you get more rolls for the second roll.

 

And yes, you do declare at the begining of the assault phase.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

I ran some numbers a while back and reached the conclusion that except against enemies where you had 4+ to hit and 3+ to wound (ie Eldar) you were better off re-rolling wounds.

[Stormbrow II]

Running numbers shows that its arguably best to re-roll to wound against T5+, otherwise you re-roll to hit.