So Tell Me About Blood Angel Sternguard

[Anpu42]

So Tell Me About Blood Angel Sternguard

 

I spent the morning searching and found lots of articles about using Sternguard, but all of them either discuss using Lysander and Kantor, but I am running a Blood Angles List so I don’t have that Option.

 

I am familiar with all of the Combi-Weapon and Drop Pod Doctrines and if I can get the parts I will probably go with Combi-Plasmas [Yes I Love Plasma]. I am also thinking of getting them each a Drop Pod.

 

Currently my One Blood Angel Sternguard has:

Sergeant with Power Fist and Combi-Plasma

7x Bolter

2x Plasma Guns

 

I am just wanting some opinions on the current Sternguard

 

Also some advice about Special Ammunition.

 

Dragon Fire Bolts:

Vengeance Round:

Kraken Bolts:

Hellfire Rounds:

 

I am also thinking of adding more Sternguard, one with 2 Heavy Flamers [using LotD Figures] and maybe ather one with 2 Heavy Weapons.

[Xeonic]

My general rule of thumb is to use hellfire rounds unless other ammos would remove -all- of a targets saves, or the intended target is over 24". I don't have the mathhammer saved but this is my personal rule of thumb.

For example:

Hellfire default except:

Dragonfire for 5+ sv or worse in cover.

Kraken 4+ sv or worse in the open, or past 24".

Vengeance 3+ sv in the open.

 

I mostly don't use vengeance rounds at all, preferring to fire my combi meltas because of the "gets hot!" rule you have to roll seperately for every "gets hot!" weapon(overheats), because the rule states the save(s) must be taken by the model firing. I have used them once or twice and hellfire rounds are only moderately less effective vs MEQ, but the dice rolling involved is aggravating.

 

I suggest you offload the combi plas from the sergeant to a bolter marine. It makes no difference but you don't want to chance losing your SCCW.

 

EDIT: Disclaimer on this post is that I'm assuming sternguard from codex space marines to codex blood angels are largely unchanged.

[ShinyRhino]

The only thing Blood Angels Sternguard get that normal Sternguard do not are the chance to have an attached Sanguinary Priest, and the requirement to roll for Red Thirst every game.

 

You'll get Feel No Pain against the Vengeance Round overheats, which greatly reduces their threat to the firer. If you pass on firing Vengeance because you don't like rolling per model...I don't know what to tell you, lol. It's not that difficult to point at a model, roll his dice, and set aside the hits. :D

You'll also get the Furious Charge bonus, which will give you 4 attacks per model on the charge, all at I5, S5. Even without a power weapon, that's a lot of hits and wounds.

[Anpu42]

I did make a Sang. Priest [With Storm Bolter] for them.

[angry man]

in a BA army, sternguard fill more of a fire support role. for vanilla marines, they can be used for a mini alpha strike and a podding melta threat, however, BA have this role covered all over the show.

 

honour guard can accurately drop with 4 MG, and RAS with 2 either in one or 2 units - in comparison its not really worth the points or the FOC slot to use sternies for this role.i think they would work better softening up infantry units or MC with the correct choice of ammo

 

AM

[Anpu42]

I am already working with 2 Honor Guard

 

This is the list I am working with for a Planetstike Game.

 

Captain @ 155 pts (Power Armor; Jump Packs)

Captain’s Honur Guard @ 305 pts (Chapter Banner; Equip with Jump Packs)

-1x Blood Champion

-1x Sanguinary Novitiate

-3x Honor Guard (Lightning Claw x2)

 

Librarian @ 150 pts (Power Armor; Epistolary; Smite; Unleash Rage)

Librarian’s Honor Guard @ 240 pts (Company Standard)

-1x Blood Champion

-1x Sanguinary Novitiate (Bolt Gun x1)

-3x Honor Guard (Plasmagun x3; Power Sword x3)

 

Reclusiarch @ 165 pts (Terminator Armor; Rosarius; Crozius Arcanum; Combi-Plasmagun)

Reclusiarch’s Terminator Squad Squad @ 470 pts

-1x Sergeant (Power Sword x1; Storm Bolter x1)

-7x Terminator (Power Fist x7; Storm Bolter x7)

-2x Terminator (Assault Cannon x2; Chain Fist x2)

 

Sanguinary Priest @ 293 pts

-2x Sanguinary Priest in Power Armor (Power Armor; Jump Pack; Melta Bombs; Plasma Pistol x2; Power Sword x2) {With the 2 Assault Squads}

1 Sanguinary Priest in Power Armor (Melta Bombs; Storm Bolter; Power Sword) {With Sternguard}

 

1st Assault Squad @ 255 pts (Jump Pack; Bolt Pistol x7; Chainsword x9; Plasma Pistol x2)

-1x Sergeant (Melta Bombs; Lightning Claw x2)

 

2nd Assault Squad @ 255 pts (Jump Pack; Bolt Pistol x7; Chainsword x9; Plasma Pistol x2)

-1x Sergeant (Melta Bombs; Lightning Claw x2)

 

Sternguard Veteran Squad @ 305 pts (Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Plasmagun x2)

-1x Sergeant (Melta Bombs; Combi-Plasmagun; Power Fist x1)

 

Tactical Squad @ 203 pts (Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Plasmagun x1; Heavy Bolter x1)

-1x Sergeant (Melta Bombs; Power Weapon x1; Storm Bolter x1)

 

Tactical Squad @ 203 pts (Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Plasmagun x1; Heavy Bolter x1)

-1x Sergeant (Melta Bombs; Power Weapon x1; Storm Bolter x1)

 

Total Roster Cost: 2999

[Koremu]

They are not terribly Blood Angelly and I honestly don't see why they were included in the Codex.

[Chengar Qordath]

They are not terribly Blood Angelly and I honestly don't see why they were included in the Codex.

Have to agree there; cut-and-pasting in Sternguard and Vanguard really did not work too well for the BA. Sternguard don't fit fluff, and jump pack Vanguard were not a good trade for the old Veteran Assault Squads.

[Koremu]

Vanguard Vets still have their typical problem, which they share with Death Company & Honour Guard; GW seem to have decided that 2 attacks on profile and the availability of Power Weapons means their jump packs have to be hugely costly.

[LardO'Blood]

Sounds good, I might lose one of the plasma guns for a melta gun/2 combi meltas just to add some anti armor.

As for special ammo this is what i do.

If they are out of range use Kraken.

If they are in range use hellfire.

If they are MEQ with FNP (or just giant and nasty) use vengeance.

If they are under bolstered defenses in a 3+ cover save or are those annoying Eldar with 2+ cover use dragonfire.

[Vaktathi]

They are not terribly Blood Angelly and I honestly don't see why they were included in the Codex.

Probably because they are and always have been a fairly Codex Astartes adherent force for the most part? BA's, especially before the current codex, were never really different from any other codex SM chapter in terms of organization.

[Koremu]

They are not terribly Blood Angelly and I honestly don't see why they were included in the Codex.

Probably because they are and always have been a fairly Codex Astartes adherent force for the most part? BA's, especially before the current codex, were never really different from any other codex SM chapter in terms of organization.

I don't question the "codex" nature of the chapter. I just question the likelihood of Blood Angels fielding shooty veterans.

[Leonaides]

Just as liley as any other chapter... They are still Codex marines, and some mariens will inevitably make veteran status with a more 'ranged combat' approach to things. You could say the same about Skyclaws, or Whitescar Devs, etc... Even BA bikers (who are described as a bit 'odd' in their preference for being on the ground rather than wanting to be JP equipped).

[Koremu]

Then explain to me why C:SM doesn't get an option for Jump Marines as Troops, which is certainly codex, and much more likely (IMO) than BA shooty vets...

[Vaktathi]

Then explain to me why C:SM doesn't get an option for Jump Marines as Troops, which is certainly codex, and much more likely (IMO) than BA shooty vets...

 

Because GW thinks FoC swaps are what makes armies different enough to justify their own codex. :P

 

Blood Angels aren't an assault and hand to hand based army, they operate and fight, overwhelmingly so, like any other Codex SM chapter, going by the fluff and just about every codex before the current one. They aren't Space Wolves or World Eaters. The distinction is that they have to deal with the Red Thirst and Black Rage, which is really a distracting flaw as they see it, not something that they normally count on as a strength, and for some reason have faster versions of otherwise ubiquitous vehicles. However in game terms this results in them being perceived as a CC force, when what really they should be seen as is a highly *mobile* force. They have a couple of more CC oriented units (furioso and death company really) but, at least according to the fluff, aren't any more close combat oriented for the most part than the majority of other chapters out there.

 

They originally got assault marines as troops because of the jump-pack aspect (flying angels and speed), not the CC aspect. Also., assault marines aren't super numerous in most chapters, tacticals tend to outnumber them 3-1 or thereabouts, which is why they aren't troops in most SM armies, just as Terminators aren't. This doesn't necessarily mean BA's have more of them (just like DA's don't have any more Terminators than most other chapters), it just means they use them more often in the role that most other chapters use Tactical squads.

[Chengar Qordath]

If they are MEQ with FNP (or just giant and nasty) use vengeance.

Vengeance rounds aren't that great against anything with FNP or big nasties (although I suppose it depends on your definition of big nasty; when I see the term, I think of Monstrous Creatures and the like). Against anything with FNP your better using a weapon that takes away their FNP save, and against most big nasties you will have more luck just using hellfire rounds to stack a bunch of wounds on them than trying to manage wounding with a strength 4 attack.

[Koremu]

@Vaktathi: We should probably discuss that elsewhere. I disagree on certain points, but it's kind off topic.

If they are MEQ with FNP (or just giant and nasty) use vengeance.

Vengeance rounds aren't that great against anything with FNP or big nasties (although I suppose it depends on your definition of big nasty; when I see the term, I think of Monstrous Creatures and the like). Against anything with FNP your better using a weapon that takes away their FNP save, and against most big nasties you will have more luck just using hellfire rounds to stack a bunch of wounds on them than trying to manage wounding with a strength 4 attack.

The Math is quite complicated, but it boils down to: If you can take away ALL of somethings saves, do so, otherwise just wound on 2+

 

The only exception is for high-T MCs, where you should always choose to wound on a 2+.

 

FNP is irrelevant as regards Sternguard special ammo, but most targets with FNP you are better off going with a flood of 2+ to wound.

 

Against any form of MEQ you'll usually end up firing 2+ to wound anyway, because most of your targets with have both Armour and Cover.