I might hop onto the Oblit bandwagon

[minigun762]

So the day might be approaching where I trade in my Defilers for Oblits for a few different reasons, however there is one thing thats causing me some worry.

 

Part of why I like my Defilers is that they're bullet sponges, they are a huge target that is vulnerable to the same kind of weaponry that you use to kill a Rhino. This means that while my Defilers might eat it, my Rhinos are alot safer. I'm worried that by using Oblits and hiding them in cover or behind the Rhinos, that my Rhinos and the troops inside will die alot faster.

[Shas'o R'Vre]

So the day might be approaching where I trade in my Defilers for Oblits for a few different reasons, however there is one thing thats causing me some worry.

 

Part of why I like my Defilers is that they're bullet sponges, they are a huge target that is vulnerable to the same kind of weaponry that you use to kill a Rhino. This means that while my Defilers might eat it, my Rhinos are alot safer. I'm worried that by using Oblits and hiding them in cover or behind the Rhinos, that my Rhinos and the troops inside will die alot faster.

I tend to find it's all a bit "swings and roundabouts". You play Defilers, they get toasted, but the rest of your army survives. You play Oblits, your troops get mauled, but they still have their fire support pummelling the enemy.

[Zeller]

Defilers can't hide. Troops and oblits can. Far more convenient and survivable.

 

Welcome to the club.

[Hyaenidae]

Also, your opponent is gonna underestimate them for only maybe the first two turns. After that, you may find the majority of fire heading their way, which is where that invul save becomes your best friend.

[minigun762]

I tend to find it's all a bit "swings and roundabouts". You play Defilers, they get toasted, but the rest of your army survives. You play Oblits, your troops get mauled, but they still have their fire support pummelling the enemy.

 

This is what I'm worried about. My gut instinct is to always protect my Troops at the cost of the support units which ends up working very well for Defilers. I'm just hoping it stays the same with Oblits.

 

 

Zeller/1000heathens: I've been a hold out on the Obliterator for a LONG time, mostly because my Defiler has done a good enough job, especially at damage soaking. To move away from playing with a Defiler means that I'll have to try and focus more on denying LOS and using terrain better instead of relying on the giant crab to act as a bullet sponge.

[Hyaenidae]

Actually, you'd be suprised. I usually set my lone oblit all by his lonesome on the highest piece of scenery on my table edge. The first major kill he gets, 70% of the time, the enemy army shifts quite a bit of fire and units his way, allowing my forces to take advantage of gaps in the enemy lines. One game, I pulled nearly half of an ork army his direction due to his frustration, as my oblit refused to die. Meanwhile, I rhino rushed his now exposed flank with a pair of Chosen squads. Death came quickly for my opponent. The oblit is quite the bullet sponge, and played right, is extremley survivable. Yeah, you will need some terrain, but screw hiding him. He's better in the open.

[minigun762]

So you're saying that 70% of the time, it works everytime? :D

 

Seriously though, I hadn't thought about it in that regard to be honest, I just assumed you'd try to protect your little Oblits, not expose them (intelligently) as targets.

[Hyaenidae]

So you're saying that 70% of the time, it works everytime? ;)

Oops, lol. :)

 

Nah, don't bother protecting them too much. 2+ armour, 5+ invul, and 2 wounds gives 'em the ability to hold their own. A little cover fire is all they really need. Just watch out for super killy CC units. That single power fist can only do so much.

[lord gunthar]

If you are really worried about your rhinos getting shot up, then deep strike the oblits near one of your icons and that will give them a powerful threat to deal with. In my last game with oblits they deep striked down on turn 3, killed a squad of gkts, then ate a company command squad and a chimera.

[Zhukov]

In short: don't worry ^^

 

Like others said already, ussually there is no need to hide the Oblits. Just put them in cover for that 4+ cover save, thats all.

Comparing them with Defilers in terms of survivability is tough... I dont think Oblits are any less survivable. In the first turns of the game they can pretty much only be harmed by long range fire: their 2+ save means Missile launchers and autocanons have pretty much no effect on them. Defilers get killed by that. You need about 3 lasscanon shots to reliably kill 1 Oblit. 2 Defilers = 4 Oblits. Many armies dont have a lot of lasscanons nowadays, so dealing with them is tough.

 

Do not worry about people shooting at your rhinos now. My rule of thumb with chaos is: If my Princes and Oblits are still alive in turn 4 I won already because of their high damage output. And here comes the important thing: Obliterators are better at taking down armour compared to the defiler. They shoot your transports, you shoot theirs. Transports gone? You can switch to plasma cannons. Alternatively, if their anti-rhino/armour is mounted on vehicles you can target their vehicles with your Obliterators and solve both problems right away. What did your defilers do apart from drawing fire? What were your targets with them? Did you wish you had other weapons available too?

 

The overall point is: Obliterators are just better than Defilers. If your oponents did shoot at the defiler instead of your transports, they should shoot at your Obliterators now. If they shot at the Defilers instead of your transports because Defilers look scary and not because it was the best thing to do, then well you were relying on your oponents falling for psychological things which is not the best thing to do.

 

The beauty of the chaos list is still that the enemy only has important targets to worry about. Target priority is not as clear as with many other armies. It varies from game to game if its actually bad for you if they shoot your transports or your heavy support or your HQ's.

 

If you are really worried about your rhinos getting shot up, then deep strike the oblits near one of your icons and that will give them a powerful threat to deal with.

In general thats bad advice. You now have less targets on the board in the first turns and no long range fire power. Your rhinos will surely get blown up now, so I dont know how you think this solves his worries about that?

[lord gunthar]

If you are really worried about your rhinos getting shot up, then deep strike the oblits near one of your icons and that will give them a powerful threat to deal with.

In general thats bad advice. You now have less targets on the board in the first turns and no long range fire power. Your rhinos will surely get blown up now, so I dont know how you think this solves his worries about that?

I didnt mean you have to do it, but is an option. I was playing a lascannon heavy army in that game and I didnt want them to die 1st turn. I agree with what you said about the obliterators, I just said that you could deep strike them to get them to last a little longer against a lascannon or other str 8+ ap 1-2 weapons.

[minigun762]

I'm sure that deploying the Oblits normally is the best choice in the majority of situations, still it is nice to have options. With the other Heavies, that is all you can do.

 

For example, I feel that if I was to play Vendetta spam IG, I might want to be deepstriking them instead simply because I can't win a shootout with 3 TL Lascannons and insta-death.

[Zhukov]

For example, I feel that if I was to play Vendetta spam IG, I might want to be deepstriking them instead simply because I can't win a shootout with 3 TL Lascannons and insta-death.

Even then I would try to avoid deepstriking. Try to hide them behind terrain and/or rhinos. You want that Lasscanons to take out his vendettas in turn 1. With 3x2 Oblits you have allright chances of hurting 2 or 3 vendettas at once. He is just as afraid of your Lasscanons believe me, but he cannot hide those giant Vendettas. You should always get the first hits by having the first turn yourself, or by hiding and then shooting. Use the advantage Oblits give you. With deepstriking 50% shows up in turn 2, while you cannot hurt him in turn 1 and you'll have the usual risks of deepstriking too of course. The rest of your forces will eat the Vendetta lasscanons in the meanwhile and Oblits cant win on themselves when they do show up.

[minigun762]

Hmm, you bring up a very valid point Zhukov.

 

Either way, I'm only hearing good things about making the switch (which I was expecting) from Defilers to Oblits.

[Hyaenidae]

I'd say go for it man. Play a few test games with a friend to get the feel of em, then go scare someone you don't know, lol.

[Important]

My oblits end up getting killed turn three or four and killed like one gaunt or something. I never seem to succed to do anything with them. So I just take them as bullet absobers and hope of improvement. I've learned in my army lists the troops are the golden stars with special weapons. Anything else is just support or extra CC carnage.

[Shas'o R'Vre]

My oblits end up getting killed turn three or four and killed like one gaunt or something.

Erm... If on turn 1/2 you are shooting Gaunts you probably aren't using them as effectively as possible.

[Hyaenidae]

Important, hit the big targets only, unless nothing else presents itself. My rule of thumb is to leave anything smaller than the actual Oblit model to my Marines.

[Shas'o R'Vre]

My rule of thumb is to leave anything smaller than the actual Oblit model to my Marines.

That's a good rule :lol:

[Zeller]

Getting used to oblits while dropping the defiler is one thing. I happen to use both oblits and a defiler. :D Havocs are also often taken. Insert obligatory "variety is spice of life."

[Hiro_Protagonist]

I say take both Oblits and Defiler. The Obliterators are more effective while people just can't help shooting at a Defiler! This way you get the variety of the Obliterators while keeping the bullet magnet. Plus opponents will keep flip flopping their focus depending on which units has scored the most recent kill! This means they'll. never bring enough concentrated firepower to bear on any one target leaving both of them intact!

[the jeske]

just can't help shooting at a Defiler!

why and if it is a single target whey is it a problem to destroy it fast ?

Plus opponents will keep flip flopping their focus depending on which units has scored the most recent kill!

maybe if you play bad opponents or..

This means they'll. never bring enough concentrated firepower to bear on any one target leaving both of them intact!

people that dont know how to play w40k.

 

singles of huge low AV models are dead. runing a mix of from same slot choices A makes the army less focused B easier to counter C means you are neither hth or shoting[which means just bad].

[Hiro_Protagonist]

just can't help shooting at a Defiler!

why and if it is a single target whey is it a problem to destroy it fast ?

Plus opponents will keep flip flopping their focus depending on which units has scored the most recent kill!

maybe if you play bad opponents or..

This means they'll. never bring enough concentrated firepower to bear on any one target leaving both of them intact!

people that dont know how to play w40k.

 

singles of huge low AV models are dead. runing a mix of from same slot choices A makes the army less focused B easier to counter C means you are neither hth or shoting[which means just bad].

 

People just have a tendency to shoot at the big dynamic models first, it's just human nature. As to why is it hard to kill...I don't know...that's just how it is with my Defiler. It performs WAY better than it should and has since become the standard.

 

The flip flopping becomes forced...by you... due to positioning and threat assessment. It's not like the Oblits and Defiler are standing next to each other!

 

The inability to bring enough firepower to bear on you is once again due to your own actions. Yes, if it was just a static battlefield then perhaps your opponent is less than stellar. But if you know what you're doing they MUST react to you not the other way around.

 

Oblits and Defiler are both shooty with a minor in hth so I don't see how you feel they are less focused.

[Shas'o R'Vre]

As to why is it hard to kill...I don't know...that's just how it is with my Defiler. It performs WAY better than it should and has since become the standard.

I don't know about you but I find it's the D.Poss and the Weapon range. People can't bring enough long range firepower to bear on it, and when they do 3/6 results are usually useless.

 

The flip flopping becomes forced...by you... due to positioning and threat assessment. It's not like the Oblits and Defiler are standing next to each other!

I see where you are coming from, but my experience tends to be that one takes a hammering in the opening turns, often dies, but by which point your troops are up close doing whatever it is they do best, and then the troops become the focus of the fire to prevent them taking objectives, leaving the support units to be harrassed by single lascannons or the like.

 

The inability to bring enough firepower to bear on you is once again due to your own actions. Yes, if it was just a static battlefield then perhaps your opponent is less than stellar. But if you know what you're doing they MUST react to you not the other way around.

Against static/semi-static opponents this can be hard though.

 

Oblits and Defiler are both shooty with a minor in hth so I don't see how you feel they are less focused.

Some people use Defilers as a major in CC (with 2 DDCW). IMHO, they are still minor in CC but oh well.

[the jeske]

People just have a tendency to shoot at the big dynamic models first, it's just human nature

0_o what ???

 

But if you know what you're doing they MUST react to you not the other way around.

good luck hiding 3 defilers against IG ,SW or a razorbuild .